Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[jungl]

if they're already playing on the easiest setting then there is no hope.

Jesus, this is what happens when people* don't have kids. They're acting like children they should be treated the same way. If you reward whining you get *more*, not less. They're not helpless idiots they're sociopathic griefers who enjoy jerking devs around and getting them to wreck their games because devs are spergs who don't get social dynamics.

How did D:OS I and II sell for Larian? You think this hypothetical idiot could handle Voidwoken fight? Alexander/Wurm? *Ship battle* for God's sake?

But, but they'll ragequit and give us bad reviews! You think D:OS I was easy? They bought D:OS II didn't they?

* - and every other species of organic life, it's not some déclassé lifestyle choice

A lot of people genuinely have difficulty understanding role playing games, e.g. Josh Sawyer's QA testers, people paid to test games for a living https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...te-march-expansion-thread.100006/post-4409223

Looking at the achievements 12% have completed Wrathfinder, but only 1.6% have completed it on Core or higher. A tiny minority are Pathfinder experts who would believe the game isn't hard enough (these would be people who populate gaming forums).

People who play the D:OS games can set the difficulty to suit their own level of skill and not suddenly get blocked by a mandatory minigame with a large set of new things to comprehend in order to succeed.

If bubbles buff mod came with wrath and faster map travel speed the completion number would be 100%. Its a piss ez game but huge waste of time sink with buffing, the world map slow traveling etc. Only the most dedicated cookie clicker autists can stomach these things.

 

[Average Manatee]

I'd say "Your First Big Enemy
Playing on Core difficulty or above, defeat the water elemental in the Prologue." at 8.1% is pretty useful.

Is it though? Again, I have a bit fat 0% for all difficulty related achievements due to character retraining invalidating them, despite the fact that I've never played below core difficulty. And frankly, not turning on character retraining for a game like this is just stupid. It's so easy to fuck up a build by taking a feat out of order that invalidates you for another feat and so on and so forth. Unless you autistically plan out a build to level 20 for all characters and save it in a text file before a game you're gonna want retraining on. And even if you do everything perfectly its not unusual for Owlcat to fuck up your build in a patch and force you to retrain anyway.

Also, turning on additional enemy behaviors invalidates core. Again I think most people looking for a challenging game are gonna do that because it just sounds more fun. I've never had it off. I'm not going to choose some stupid achievement over having fun.

All 8% on that statistic really tells me is that 92% of people don't care about achievements and would rather choose difficulty settings that make the game better.

 

[Desiderius]

Most people with lives and careers don't dedicate themselves to playing games, much less one game. Just saying. This argument is bizarre and not really in touch with reality as most people perceive it.

You don't need to. That's the point. I'm not in fact a power gamer. This is just my hobby for now, and I did fine right out of the box with just reading spells and abilities and getting help where I need it. It's already an easier game than the D:OS games which sold way more.

I'd say "Your First Big Enemy
Playing on Core difficulty or above, defeat the water elemental in the Prologue." at 8.1% is pretty useful.

Optional side boss that you have to go looking for with shitty reward and DR/attax you don't have the abilities yet to counter (without finding the resist pot) is not first big enemy. That's like thinking Smoulderburn says anything about P:K.

What is completion rate for Hosilla?

 

[Desiderius]

if they're already playing on the easiest setting then there is no hope.

Jesus, this is what happens when people* don't have kids. They're acting like children they should be treated the same way. If you reward whining you get *more*, not less. They're not helpless idiots they're sociopathic griefers who enjoy jerking devs around and getting them to wreck their games because devs are spergs who don't get social dynamics.

How did D:OS I and II sell for Larian? You think this hypothetical idiot could handle Voidwoken fight? Alexander/Wurm? *Ship battle* for God's sake?

But, but they'll ragequit and give us bad reviews! You think D:OS I was easy? They bought D:OS II didn't they?

* - and every other species of organic life, it's not some déclassé lifestyle choice

A lot of people genuinely have difficulty understanding role playing games, e.g. Josh Sawyer's QA testers, people paid to test games for a living https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...te-march-expansion-thread.100006/post-4409223

Looking at the achievements 12% have completed Wrathfinder, but only 1.6% have completed it on Core or higher. A tiny minority are Pathfinder experts who would believe the game isn't hard enough (these would be people who populate gaming forums).

People who play the D:OS games can set the difficulty to suit their own level of skill and not suddenly get blocked by a mandatory minigame with a large set of new things to comprehend in order to succeed.

Kingmaking is not a minigame in Pathfinder:KINGmaker. The Crusade is not a minigame in Wrath of the Righteous which is about a CRUSADE.

How much did Witcher sell? Gwent is gated content and the Gwent game you have to win is way harder than anything in Wrath CruFaceroll.

Yes, only 1.6% complete it because Owlcat games drag at the end. I have yet to get the completion achievements because I don't care about them. But yeah a minority play high difficulty - they're the ones who people go to for help and sell the games.

 

[KainenMorden]

Average gamers buy what great gamers tell them to. Make great games for great gamers and rake big cash for your suits.

Can you cite an example of this?

 

[Desiderius]

Average gamers buy what great gamers tell them to. Make great games for great gamers and rake big cash for your suits.

Can you cite an example of this?

 

[Roguey]

The Crusade is not a minigame in Wrath of the Righteous which is about a CRUSADE.

It's not core gameplay. You don't have to deal with it at all in acts 1 and 4.

How much did Witcher sell? Gwent is gated content and the Gwent game you have to win is way harder than anything in Wrath CruFaceroll.

Gwent is an optional sidequest. This is a small sampling, but 70% of gamefaqers say Wrath is hard, 30% say it's the right amount of difficulty, absolutely no one says it's easy.

 

[KainenMorden]

Average gamers buy what great gamers tell them to. Make great games for great gamers and rake big cash for your suits.

Can you cite an example of this?

View attachment 34349

Yeah, I didn't think so.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Just dropping in to say that swarms are fucking stupid. They are completely situation specific, so if you don't prepare for them in advance, you're fucked and you have to go back and redo shit if they appear in a dungeon that locks behind you. I love this game, but sometimes I really, really, fucking hate this game.

 

[Desiderius]

Average gamers buy what great gamers tell them to. Make great games for great gamers and rake big cash for your suits.

Can you cite an example of this?

View attachment 34349

Average gamers buy what great gamers tell them to. Make great games for great gamers and rake big cash for your suits.

Can you cite an example of this?

View attachment 34349

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Can DNE will. I’m not your dancing bear.

Think for yourself. You might like it. Why do you think companies hire influencers? Because they’re bad at what they do?

 

[The_Mask]

Why do you think companies hire influencers? Because they’re bad at what they do?

I liked it more when we used to call 'em "booth babes". It was a bit more honest.

 

[KainenMorden]

There were games that got sold based off of YouTube reviewers hyping them before they came out during the Kickstarter craze but I wouldn't say they were "great" gamers. They just made the games sound good and it had nothing to do with their mastery of the game in question.

 

[skaraher]

The advantage of a Kineticist run is you can just Wallcheese and deadlyearthcheese swarm with proper kiting.

 

[Desiderius]

There were games that got sold based off of YouTube reviewers hyping them before they came out during the Kickstarter craze but I wouldn't say they were "great" gamers. They just made the games sound good and it had nothing to do with their mastery of the game in question.

You think word of mouth is a myth? Which mouths do you think people most heed?

I swear I get more ankle-biting the more common sense I appeal to. Common sense isn’t low status, it’s table stakes for any status at all. How does a whole generation get this so backwards?

 

[KainenMorden]

There were games that got sold based off of YouTube reviewers hyping them before they came out during the Kickstarter craze but I wouldn't say they were "great" gamers. They just made the games sound good and it had nothing to do with their mastery of the game in question.

You think word if mouth is a myth? Which mouths do you think people most heed?

I swear I get more ankle-biting the more common sense I appeal to. Common sense isn’t low status, it’s table stakes for any status at all. How does a whole generation get this so backwards?

That's not how it works.

Knowledge of a game doesn't build a significant following. It's about being entertaining. People that already bought the game but want a walkthrough or build advice seek out "great" gamers.

By all means, name one of these great gamers who influenced many people to buy a game and how you quantified this.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Most people with lives and careers don't dedicate themselves to playing games, much less one game. Just saying. This argument is bizarre and not really in touch with reality as most people perceive it.

You don't need to. That's the point. I'm not in fact a power gamer.

No, but you have the sperg power of any 9 other Codexers combined and that's saying a lot. Most normal people will simply disintegrate before your weaponized autism.

 

[mediocrepoet]

There were games that got sold based off of YouTube reviewers hyping them before they came out during the Kickstarter craze but I wouldn't say they were "great" gamers. They just made the games sound good and it had nothing to do with their mastery of the game in question.

You think word if mouth is a myth? Which mouths do you think people most heed?

I swear I get more ankle-biting the more common sense I appeal to. Common sense isn’t low status, it’s table stakes for any status at all. How does a whole generation get this so backwards?

That's not how it works.

Knowledge of a game doesn't build a significant following. It's about being entertaining. People that already bought the game but want a walkthrough or build advice seek out "great" gamers.

By all means, name one of these great gamers who influenced many people to buy a game and how you quantified this.

Don't mind Desi, he's in his own reality where someone who plays games A LOT and gets excellent at them makes them cool and someone to take advice from instead of the weird smelly guy that everyone shuns and absolutely no one takes advice from. It's also apparently a place where sites like the Codex aren't needed because good games have mass market appeal instead of being a niche product.

 

[santino27]

Just dropping in to say that swarms are fucking stupid. They are completely situation specific, so if you don't prepare for them in advance, you're fucked and you have to go back and redo shit if they appear in a dungeon that locks behind you. I love this game, but sometimes I really, really, fucking hate this game.

The new DLC has necklaces that let you ignore swarm weapon immunity, so go there ASAP in chapter 3 and grab some for your melees.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Last night I killed the Songbird in the Midnight Isle DLC. It glitched out with camera cutscenes that took maybe 5 minutes to playthrough. After the battle one of my characters can no longer move despite no status effects that should be doing that. The islands are definitely getting over the top. Everything is a huge abyssal of doom something something. Getting Diablo II vibes.

I have also hit the diminishing returns on my small party. Everyone is Lvl20 and Mythic 9. My archers run into a room and murder everything like a Rainbow 6 SWAT team though. I was also pleasantly surprised to see how TTT reworked L3 Mythic Trick for Persuasion. It removes the cheese seppuku and replaces it with enemies getting -1 attack/damage/saves/SR for 1+half mythic rank mythic. Its a much better idea and improves my earlier disappointment on trying to make this path an ideal caster.

 

[KainenMorden]

There were games that got sold based off of YouTube reviewers hyping them before they came out during the Kickstarter craze but I wouldn't say they were "great" gamers. They just made the games sound good and it had nothing to do with their mastery of the game in question.

You think word if mouth is a myth? Which mouths do you think people most heed?

I swear I get more ankle-biting the more common sense I appeal to. Common sense isn’t low status, it’s table stakes for any status at all. How does a whole generation get this so backwards?

That's not how it works.

Knowledge of a game doesn't build a significant following. It's about being entertaining. People that already bought the game but want a walkthrough or build advice seek out "great" gamers.

By all means, name one of these great gamers who influenced many people to buy a game and how you quantified this.

Don't mind Desi, he's in his own reality where someone who plays games A LOT and gets excellent at them makes them cool and someone to take advice from instead of the weird smelly guy that everyone shuns and absolutely no one takes advice from. It's also apparently a place where sites like the Codex aren't needed because good games have mass market appeal instead of being a niche product.

I respect him for defending games he loves that are legitimately good even if our tastes aren't the same in all aspects.

It's a fact that crpgs are very niche and just my opinion that most people that buy them nowadays do so either because they really liked older crpgs they played when they were young or because they are into TTrpgs. I think most people that buy crpgs aren't really looking to other players that are good at the game to convince them to buy a game. I'd say most, like myself, just buy games that seem interesting and it's not like there's a ton of options out there. I'm always open to recommendations from the codex but I don't place a criteria on level of mastery to make a purchasing decision. If some users here say something is good, I just wait for it to go on sale and then play it when I can to decide for myself.

I also think there was a good amount of players that were convinced to buy EE versions of IE games they never played growing up or to buy the Kickstarter crpgs because of some YouTube gamer personalities but the appeal of those YouTubers and their recommendations had nothing to do with legitimately being good at crpgs at all. I see it more as a cult of personality thing.

To be fair, other sites always examine the opinions of the codex because of the reputation of this being the home of "hardcore" crpg players which I guess has something to do with what Desiderius is talking about but I don't think that's part of the marketing strategy of any developers/publishers. They'd most likely rather have a popular streamer play their game even if that person is fumbling through it.

If Desiderius is correct, Owlcat should put him on their payroll.

 

[skaraher]

Just cleaned Leper smile and the Pain Connoisseur. Seems like from level 7 onward the new "I WIN" button is Greater invisibility. Combined with a straight class Demonslayer so far it has solved all the encounters. Some bosses my MC can't tank (I can attain 45 or so AC with the court poet, will run the numbers to find if I can squeeze some more points) so I solve them via animate dead spam. Smilodon charge with full attacks does wonder on Vescavor swarm. As of now I have 3 party members with Unbreakable heart so the Glibber spam isn't reallly a problem.

Gargoyle was a lot harder than those encounters. Will soon replace Camellia by a Cleric of Erastil and maybe Ember with a Paladin by the end of the act.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I'd say "Your First Big Enemy
Playing on Core difficulty or above, defeat the water elemental in the Prologue." at 8.1% is pretty useful.

Is it though?

Actually, while all the reasons you state obviously have an impact as well, I'm 101% sure most people don't have the difficulty-related achievements because "early game xp sharing on/off" is the first pathfinder meme every new player learns. And the higher the difficulty, the faster the learning curve is.

Besides that, it's just roguey and his "achievement stats matter!!" posts. Similarly to Kingmaker, Wrath is a game where you can have hundreds of hours logged while not going far into the main campaign, let alone finishing it. The only stat that matters is that the game has an active player base. And a pretty big one at that.

 

[Reinhardt]

The issue with Crusader mode is

that every unit looks like . literally.

 

[Desiderius]

The Crusade is not a minigame in Wrath of the Righteous which is about a CRUSADE.

It's not core gameplay. You don't have to deal with it at all in acts 1 and 4.

How much did Witcher sell? Gwent is gated content and the Gwent game you have to win is way harder than anything in Wrath CruFaceroll.

Gwent is an optional sidequest. This is a small sampling, but 70% of gamefaqers say Wrath is hard, 30% say it's the right amount of difficulty, absolutely no one says it's easy.

Lol it's not optional. To advance the plot you have to win some pretty tough Gwent games (don't ask me where it's been awhile) and good luck if you haven't kept up your deck. Likewise with the Brawling minigame.

Point being hard games (or at least games with hard gates) sell. Your (and Soyer's) conceited take doesn't account for why that would be. I ride your sorry* asses because I know you can do better; you want to nerf games into oblivion (or maintain/widen a gaming caste system) because you don't think your own customer base can. We are not the same.

As with P:K it's bullshit to say it isn't core when you haven't even gotten to it yet. As with unexpectedly taking away a core character to shock the player into recognizing how valuable her (usually underappreciated) class was in P:K I think taking away the KM while having to go out of pocket to chase Amiri/Tristian was designed to have the same effect. Certainly achieved it for me as I was sorely missing it at that point, where I was looking forward to finally cashing in the region upgrades at only one week a pop instead of two.

Alas it ended up being anti-climactic as KM was unfinished, but I was *really* missing it by the time we got back. The Crusade has deeper problems as well described by InD_ImaginE so yeah taking it away didn't work as well there, but that's the design and it's generally an effective one.

* - of course on most issues you're anything but sorry. You (and Soyer) get this one wrong it won't matter.

 

[Fedora Master]

I can't believe you autists are still beating this dead horse.