Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

Like 3 Morale AoE AC? that sort of thing?

I listed the breakdown of what it gets in those links. You don’t have to limit yourself to just theorycrafting. There is a game you could play to find out.

Archmage Armor burns a Mythic to get 5 AC (total) at lvl 6, 6 at level 8, 7 at lvl 10, 8 at 13, 9 at 16 etc.

With HKS and Armor Training you’ve got 9 at lvl 6, 13 at lvl 10 with Adamantine DR, and the capacity to go higher as the big DEX buffs open up, and the Armor Training cancels the Heavy Speed malus early.

If you’re Melee gish you want STR-based and caster stat so cranking up base DEX high enough for the DEX limitation on Heavy to come into play isn’t practical anyway.

HKS is full spell progression, EK isn’t. That’s more important than having to miss out on Outflank for a level. And you don’t have to burn a Feat on Martial Prof so you can use that for Exotic.

 

[Desiderius]

As for Feats, if you want to beat saves take caster Feats and don’t gish. If you want to gish take melee Feats. You’ll only be short if you’re trying to go DEX-based for Archmage which you don’t have to with HKS.

What Fighter Feats are you taking? Weapon Specialization gets outclassed by the scaling too, as even Sneaks do eventually but you’ve got Vitals for that if you want them.

Pal (and thus Mark) is Lawful just like HKS but I guess if you want an Evil party hitting things could be more of a challenge but Evil has other ways around that.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Having finished WOTR on Unfair, these are my completely heterodox words of wisdom that most people in this thread will probably hate, mock, and jeer, but they worked for me:

• Early-mid game Sensei's are awesome. They can buff with bard songs and they can cast mass-true strike, which can power you through most mid-game bosses. They are also great late-game for specific encounters (final boss).
• I didn't learn this early enough, but Skalds are also awesome as their rage effect stacks with most other group buffs. If I ever replay this game, I'd probably play as an axe throwing Skald.
• Take Wendaug over Lann if possible. I don't know what the fallout is of this decision (does it lock you into evil?), but she's way better than Lann at dishing damage which you need in the early chapters. I had to kill her in my run, which sucked.
• Ulbrig is awesome. He's spongey as fuck, but he dishes out so much damage and can basically just warp around the battle field, that he kind of seems unbalanced in many ways. Given the huge number of OP items in that dlc, I suspect they were using it as some kind of retcon to balance some of the game's difficulty spikes without having to do a rebalance from the ground up.
• Hexes are mostly shit (on Unfair). Ember is fine if you want a hexer as she at least can do damage, AOE, and debuff via non-hex spells like Enervate. However, in many cases, if you have her, you will want her casting those spells at the start of battles rather than hexes. I qualify this with "on Unfair" because ac is already absurd on Unfair, so wasting a character's turn on a shitty -2/4/6/8 ac debuff is rarely worth it, especially since there's no mass version of it and, apart from bosses, whatever you are targeting will be dead shortly regardless. The only time it is worth it is to debuff bosses to make them more susceptible to spells, but I personally never really found this to be required and can't recall any fights (other than very early game) when it made a huge difference.
• More on that: Camelia is useful early game, because anyone can cast low level spells and they work. However, on unfair late game, spells don't really hit unless you build your characters to make them hit, which requires feats, so I honestly don't see how she can be a great character without sacrificing something essential. I made her melee (which I regret), which just meant she was both a shitty melee character and a shitty spell caster. If I had to do it again, I'd probably make her a bow wielder as her high dex makes her cut out for it, but she wouldn't be able to do anything other than bows and hexes.
• Shatter defenses is nice, but very situation specific and not necessary. You don't get the mass shatter debuffs until chapter 3/4, and it's very useful as a feat for chapter 4, but it's expensive and at chapter 5 everything annoying is basically immune to it, so I don't think you need to waste the feats on it if you don't want, although some builds will have feats to spare, so probably fine for them. It will really help you with a few situation specific fights (especially most of Ulbrig's dlc, which involves fighting large numbers of those flying mantis things--all of which are susceptible....although you can do his dlc at anytime, so I'd just wait), but I don't think it's as much a priority as Kingmaker. Especially if you are trickster, I think following the "improved, improved, improved" critical tree is a better investment.
• I cannot imagine how anyone could complete this game on unfair without taking Last Stand, which is absurdly overpowered, but also necessary, and seems like another one of those powers Owlcat added and assumed everyone would take to avoid a ground up re-balancing.

'k, that's all. Now everyone proceed to freak out.

 

[Desiderius]

Lann starts with two attacks at full BAB. If Wend is outdamaging Lann early you’re doing something wrong. I’m a longtime fan of straight Fighter but it takes longer to get there on ranged than melee because it wants PBM, which has prereqs, and needs the Snap Shots to turn on AoOs.

Likewise Cam has all the tools for melee (tho her archetype is a better fit for STR-based). If she’s sucking for you you’re missing something. Beating saves on Unfair is a tall hill to climb for her even with caster Feats, but she has some that don’t need to including Nature Summons which are better than Cleric/Wiz book.

Hexes don’t suck for the simple fact that they bypass SR and have an effect whether they beat the save or not (you can even use the other ones against threats with lower saves). Cam has a unique one that unlike Evil Eye isn’t mid-affecting. If she wasn’t such a cunt she’d be hard to cut from my team.

Shatter isn’t a must but applying Shaken is generally worth it anyway and relatively easy to do. Sicken is harder but doable as is Entangle. Few big threats are immune to those and finding ways to regularly apply them (and get Archon’s to land) makes a big difference. It’s akin to buffing your whole team at once.

 

[Average Manatee]

Like 3 Morale AoE AC? that sort of thing?

Kind of meh if that's your advantage for 10 levels of a class? By comparison Alchemist's unique shtick gets you +4 shield AC to the whole party immediately, slightly later Animal Aspect (+4 all phys stats), along with mutagens, eventually transformation, then the archetypes themselves let you choose whether to be a bomb bitch, get tons of sneak attack, or use incense as a phys buff or a broken save debuffer.

 

[Average Manatee]

• While I played most of Kingmaker in RTWP, I played most of WotR in turn based. Turn-based is fine, but it's clear the game wasn't designed or balanced for it given how much time it adds to the runtime and how certain fights make it a pain in the ass. A skip animation function to speed up moves would be nice.

Toybox has a way to assign a hotkey to speed up the game. Highly recommend it.

Take Wendaug over Lann if possible. I don't know what the fallout is of this decision (does it lock you into evil?), but she's way better than Lann at dishing damage which you need in the early chapters. I had to kill her in my run, which sucked.

Ehh? If you're gonna change them to a different class (which you should IMO), both are basically the same except for minor stat differences, with Lann being arguably slightly better.

• I didn't learn this early enough, but Skalds are also awesome as their rage effect stacks with most other group buffs. If I ever replay this game, I'd probably play as an axe throwing Skald.

Yeah skalds are pretty busted in how much stuff they can get (especially so quickly), basically a vastly improved bard where close to everything can stack. If there's a significant problem with build planning as a new player it's that you have to know which classes' buffs will be able to stack with other classes. Try Incense Synthesizer or BFT too, they give unique buffs + the ability to turn normally self-only buffs into ones that you can spam on everyone.

• Ulbrig is awesome. He's spongey as fuck, but he dishes out so much damage and can basically just warp around the battle field, that he kind of seems unbalanced in many ways. Given the huge number of OP items in that dlc, I suspect they were using it as some kind of retcon to balance some of the game's difficulty spikes without having to do a rebalance from the ground up.

Did you take Lunge on him? With that he can almost be a ranged character. A ranged character that can use STR for attack and damage and has like 35 STR in chapter 2 because lmao.

Hexes are mostly shit (on Unfair). Ember is fine if you want a hexer as she at least can do damage, AOE, and debuff via non-hex spells like Enervate. However, in many cases, if you have her, you will want her casting those spells at the start of battles rather than hexes. I qualify this with "on Unfair" because ac is already absurd on Unfair, so wasting a character's turn on a shitty -2/4/6/8 ac debuff is rarely worth it, especially since there's no mass version of it and, apart from bosses, whatever you are targeting will be dead shortly regardless. The only time it is worth it is to debuff bosses to make them more susceptible to spells, but I personally never really found this to be required and can't recall any fights (other than very early game) when it made a huge difference.

The main "exploit" is to abuse Cackle w/ the buffing hexes you cast on yourself to make them last forever (since you can cackle every 3s to extend them for 6s). Aside from that -4 AC is alright. Its fairly common for casters and weaker AB characters to not have much to do in boss fights if you don't have them specced for hellfire ray or DC spells.

• More on that: Camelia is useful early game, because anyone can cast low level spells and they work. However, on unfair late game, spells don't really hit unless you build your characters to make them hit, which requires feats, so I honestly don't see how she can be a great character without sacrificing something essential. I made her melee (which I regret), which just meant she was both a shitty melee character and a shitty spell caster. If I had to do it again, I'd probably make her a bow wielder as her high dex makes her cut out for it, but she wouldn't be able to do anything other than bows and hexes.

Shaman is a full divine caster (= tons of buffs), Mid AB with feats and stats to go DEX (rapier can work but Elven Curved Sword is better IMO). In case you didn't figure out, a big "trick" is to take power attack rather than piranha strike since the former can get 2H bonuses even from DEX, all you need to do this is get her some equipment boosting her STR to qualify for power attack. If you can get her some UMD to take advantage of transformation scrolls then that will boost both her AB and damage from power attack to the max like a full AB character (+30 damage at level 20). She eventually can get a pet too for both mobility and tankiness.

Spoiler

(ignore the fact that I've made her a judge this game, nothing I've done substantially changes her melee strength from what she'd be as a Shaman. Though I do have a BFT buffing her)

Bow wielding is frankly subpar for her due to MAD (always have to use str for damage and another stat for AB), not getting 2H damage bonuses, and the fact that a pet basically obliviates any advantage bows have in being able to full attack far away enemies (in fact pets do it better indoors with LoS issues).

I cannot imagine how anyone could complete this game on unfair without taking Last Stand, which is absurdly overpowered, but also necessary, and seems like another one of those powers Owlcat added and assumed everyone would take to avoid a ground up re-balancing.

You can do it if you stack initiative so that your whole party always goes first and generally destroys everything on the first round.

 

[Desiderius]

Like 3 Morale AoE AC? that sort of thing?

Kind of meh if that's your advantage for 10 levels of a class? By comparison Alchemist's unique shtick gets you +4 shield AC to the whole party immediately, slightly later Animal Aspect (+4 all phys stats), along with mutagens, eventually transformation, then the archetypes themselves let you choose whether to be a bomb bitch, get tons of sneak attack, or use incense as a phys buff or a broken save debuffer.

Shield AC doesn’t stack, Morale does. And each Shield spell takes a slot, it’s not AoE. Lvl ten? It starts at +1 at lvl 1, goes up to + 2 at lvl 5, and hits + 3 at lvl 9. People shit themselves for Archmage Armor and here’s an AOE giving similar bonuses *to the whole team* when you need them and you’re like whatever.

C’mon man, you’re smarter than this. Alchemist is slow (and limited) spell progression, HKS gets the full Wiz book full blast. Its competition is Wizard School abilities, not hybrid classes. If AC isn't your thing there are four other Orders that aren't chopped liver.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Is it normal for the game to make my CPU go up to 82 degrees celcius? This is the only game to make my CPU do that. Even Total War doesn't have that effect.

Also, how much extra damage should Improved Aeon Bane give you? For me its just 2d6 divine damage. It does stack with greater bane though, which is still nice and another reason why Aeon Inquisitors work so well.

 

[Desiderius]

Is it normal for the game to make my CPU go up to 82 degrees celcius? This is the only game to make my CPU do that. Even Total War doesn't have that effect.

Also, how much extra damage should Improved Aeon Bane give you? For me its just 2d6 divine damage. It does stack with greater bane though, which is still nice and another reason why Aeon Inquisitors work so well.

It really doesn't - too much duplication, and Swifts get even more crowded. The big thing about Aeon Bane is the dispels. The damage is nice but that's just gravy, especially if you're not exploiting damage packets.

 

[Average Manatee]

Is it possible to keep uncorrupted Arue after reaching chapter 5 on demon path? I thought the answer was no, but I kept Toybox's option to let party members interject even if they aren't present and it turns out she has lines for the demon mythic path stuff after you normally lose her. Then I look online and there seems to be conflicting information on whether you can keep her.

Shield AC doesn’t stack, Morale does. And each Shield spell takes a slot, it’s not AoE. Lvl ten? It starts at +1 at lvl 1, goes up to + 2 at lvl 5, and hits + 3 at lvl 9. People shit themselves for Archmage Armor and here’s an AOE giving similar bonuses *to the whole team* when you need them and you’re like whatever.

Morale bonuses *shouldn't* be stacking but w/e. No one has shield AC generally since shields are for chumps so it's fine. Shield is +4 at level 1, not sure what you're on about. You only need like 3-4 of them to cover all the important people being attacked so not being AoE is fine too, you can handle it at low levels.

C’mon man, you’re smarter than this. Alchemist is slow (and limited) spell progression, HKS gets the full Wiz book full blast. Its competition is Wizard School abilities, not hybrid classes.

Unless it's your only full arcane, having a 2nd full arcane that is trying to melee is kind of a waste. The feat setup to be decent in melee is very different from that required to take advantage of most arcane spells so a huge amount of the magic power of full arcane is wasted. You're not casting weird or nuking/hellfire raying with an HKS so what are you really getting? Seamantle? Just build a proper mid BAB melee caster.

 

[Desiderius]

Morale bonuses *shouldn't* be stacking but w/e. No one has shield AC generally since shields are for chumps so it's fine. Shield is +4 at level 1, not sure what you're on about. You only need like 3-4 of them to cover all the important people being attacked so not being AoE is fine too, you can handle it at low levels.

It stacks because they're rare. Can you name another? Does anyone even play the damn game? There is no bug.

Shields are not in fact for chumps either. Whether Shield-bashing (there are several very good ones starting in ch. 3) or just using it for the bonuses (and not just AC) you're underrating the value of item slots as much as the Armorless addicts. Even fighting one-handed is often enough since HP doesn't scale as hard as AC/Stats. I find it a more satisfying game by dialing down the damage, but even then stuff ends up dying in a round or two. There are no bulletsponges.

Shield spell is +4 for one minute at lvl 1, and it takes awhile until you've got enough slots to keep it up consistently. Yes of course it's great lvl 3-5 to keep your Leopard tank alive on Unfair. Shield item AC is always up, even when ambushed or dispelled. Tower +3 is on sale at lvl 6, and there are two +2 Mithril shields available by then as well. Throughout the game there are good Bucklers and Light Shields with other bonuses. Seelah comes with Shield Focus so is incentivized to use them, and there are other Shield Feats that unlocks in TTT/Dark Codex.

Unless it's your only full arcane, having a 2nd full arcane that is trying to melee is kind of a waste. The feat setup to be decent in melee is very different from that required to take advantage of most arcane spells so a huge amount of the magic power of full arcane is wasted. You're not casting weird or nuking/hellfire raying with an HKS so what are you really getting? Seamantle? Just build a proper mid BAB melee caster.

That is backwards. You yourself said you like to use Transformation. What level does Alch get it? HKS? You use the gish for buffs (including self-buffs) and the Caster for control. That's common enough. The question is whether HKS or EK is better at that. You can go Alch/Magus but then your buffs are late and if Magus wants to Spell Combat then that eats slots.

My preferred use for HKS is a touch/cone Aeon/Lich but the Orders open up options for Gishing too.

 

[Desiderius]

Neither Lann nor Wend need to be respecced for anything but variety.

Wend doesn't need a Mount because she's a great tank. If you've never tanked with Legendary Proportioned Wend Dual-Wielding Throwing Axes with Greater Snap Shot, Fighter's Tactics, and Seize the Moment you're missing out.

Again, Mounts are for characters who get a benefit from them. Neither Lann hitting from 50ft* nor Wend with high AC and Armor Training need that. Maintaining high DEX and STR on a Fighter is a non-issue.

* - Advanced mode on Lann would be using Abundant Step to take advantage of his Combat Reflexes but I have yet to reach that level. He has fine AC too by then with WIS to AC and Monk AC bonuses.

 

[scytheavatar]

Having finished WOTR on Unfair, these are my completely heterodox words of wisdom that most people in this thread will probably hate, mock, and jeer, but they worked for me:

• Early-mid game Sensei's are awesome. They can buff with bard songs and they can cast mass-true strike, which can power you through most mid-game bosses. They are also great late-game for specific encounters (final boss).
• I didn't learn this early enough, but Skalds are also awesome as their rage effect stacks with most other group buffs. If I ever replay this game, I'd probably play as an axe throwing Skald.
• Take Wendaug over Lann if possible. I don't know what the fallout is of this decision (does it lock you into evil?), but she's way better than Lann at dishing damage which you need in the early chapters. I had to kill her in my run, which sucked.
• Ulbrig is awesome. He's spongey as fuck, but he dishes out so much damage and can basically just warp around the battle field, that he kind of seems unbalanced in many ways. Given the huge number of OP items in that dlc, I suspect they were using it as some kind of retcon to balance some of the game's difficulty spikes without having to do a rebalance from the ground up.
• Hexes are mostly shit (on Unfair). Ember is fine if you want a hexer as she at least can do damage, AOE, and debuff via non-hex spells like Enervate. However, in many cases, if you have her, you will want her casting those spells at the start of battles rather than hexes. I qualify this with "on Unfair" because ac is already absurd on Unfair, so wasting a character's turn on a shitty -2/4/6/8 ac debuff is rarely worth it, especially since there's no mass version of it and, apart from bosses, whatever you are targeting will be dead shortly regardless. The only time it is worth it is to debuff bosses to make them more susceptible to spells, but I personally never really found this to be required and can't recall any fights (other than very early game) when it made a huge difference.
• More on that: Camelia is useful early game, because anyone can cast low level spells and they work. However, on unfair late game, spells don't really hit unless you build your characters to make them hit, which requires feats, so I honestly don't see how she can be a great character without sacrificing something essential. I made her melee (which I regret), which just meant she was both a shitty melee character and a shitty spell caster. If I had to do it again, I'd probably make her a bow wielder as her high dex makes her cut out for it, but she wouldn't be able to do anything other than bows and hexes.
• Shatter defenses is nice, but very situation specific and not necessary. You don't get the mass shatter debuffs until chapter 3/4, and it's very useful as a feat for chapter 4, but it's expensive and at chapter 5 everything annoying is basically immune to it, so I don't think you need to waste the feats on it if you don't want, although some builds will have feats to spare, so probably fine for them. It will really help you with a few situation specific fights (especially most of Ulbrig's dlc, which involves fighting large numbers of those flying mantis things--all of which are susceptible....although you can do his dlc at anytime, so I'd just wait), but I don't think it's as much a priority as Kingmaker. Especially if you are trickster, I think following the "improved, improved, improved" critical tree is a better investment.
• I cannot imagine how anyone could complete this game on unfair without taking Last Stand, which is absurdly overpowered, but also necessary, and seems like another one of those powers Owlcat added and assumed everyone would take to avoid a ground up re-balancing.

'k, that's all. Now everyone proceed to freak out.

-4 ac with evil eye is nice, but the real star is Stone spirit and Metal curse which is another - 4 ac, latter becoming - 6. And unlike evil eye which a lot of enemies are immune to almost nobody is immune to metal curse. This game strongly favors getting rid of 1-2 tough enemies in turn 1-2 and then taking your sweet time to kill the other trashes, and because of that hexes are extremely good. That's how I built my Camelia, spams nothing but Evil Eye and Metal Curse plus chant. And summons now and then.

But the most powerful hex in this game is without a doubt protective luck. How do you beat Unfair without Last Stand? Well, with protective luck spamming on a tank.

 

[Rhobar121]

Morale bonuses *shouldn't* be stacking but w/e. No one has shield AC generally since shields are for chumps so it's fine. Shield is +4 at level 1, not sure what you're on about. You only need like 3-4 of them to cover all the important people being attacked so not being AoE is fine too, you can handle it at low levels.

It stacks because they're rare. Can you name another? Does anyone even play the damn game? There is no bug.

Shields are not in fact for chumps either. Whether Shield-bashing (there are several very good ones starting in ch. 3) or just using it for the bonuses (and not just AC) you're underrating the value of item slots as much as the Armorless addicts. Even fighting one-handed is often enough since HP doesn't scale as hard as AC/Stats. I find it a more satisfying game by dialing down the damage, but even then stuff ends up dying in a round or two. There are no bulletsponges.

Shield spell is +4 for one minute at lvl 1, and it takes awhile until you've got enough slots to keep it up consistently. Yes of course it's great lvl 3-5 to keep your Leopard tank alive on Unfair. Shield item AC is always up, even when ambushed or dispelled. Tower +3 is on sale at lvl 6, and there are two +2 Mithril shields available by then as well. Throughout the game there are good Bucklers and Light Shields with other bonuses. Seelah comes with Shield Focus so is incentivized to use them, and there are other Shield Feats that unlocks in TTT/Dark Codex.

Find me shields that actually give useful bonuses that are worth more than higher damage dice, 2h bonus from mythic power attack and reach.

In fact, the shield bonus for a tank is much rarer than morale. Pets can't use a shield, it's +4ac for free.
If you use TabletopTweaks it means that if you don't have a free second hand you can't use crane style lines.
Don't even mention tower shield. Using them if you're not a tower shield specialist (which is probably the worst subclass for a fighter) is self-impairing.

As for the morale bonus, it's a bit of it.
The most important items are definitely:
1) Helmet of Comradery (up to +3) (act 3)
2) Lizard's Tail (+3) (act 4)
3) Ring of Triumphant Advance (2x morale bonus) (act 4)
Lizard's Tail only works on pets or characters with a polymorph effect, any effect of this type will work, so the animal aspect will also work (another reason why the alchemist is better).
You can argue that both belt and ring are available quite late, but you can get the helmet very quickly (at the very beginning of act 3).
AC stacking isn't terribly necessary in act 1, and for most of act 2, you don't see enemies that can reliably hit a well-built tank.

Neither Lann nor Wend need to be respecced for anything but variety.

Wend doesn't need a Mount because she's a great tank. If you've never tanked with Legendary Proportioned Wend Dual-Wielding Throwing Axes with Greater Snap Shot, Fighter's Tactics, and Seize the Moment you're missing out.

Again, Mounts are for characters who get a benefit from them. Neither Lann hitting from 50ft* nor Wend with high AC and Armor Training need that. Maintaining high DEX and STR on a Fighter is a non-issue.

* - Advanced mode on Lann would be using Abundant Step to take advantage of his Combat Reflexes but I have yet to reach that level. He has fine AC too by then with WIS to AC and Monk AC bonuses.

I wonder how this is possible for a normal fighter. Of course, I assume that this is not some level of difficulty for children like normal or daring
Theoretically, it could be done with a mutation warrior, but a regular fighter has no right to be able to tank effectively for the first 3 acts (last stand doesn't count).
Even assuming you are playing with TabletopTweaks which adds new mythic powers you still need at least some mythic lvl.

 

[Desiderius]

Dude, I just built Seelah into a tank, with a Tower Shield via TSS splash at level 6, that owned Unfair and poasted pics. Would you like me to post them again? Tower Shield +3 is on sale at beginning of Ch 2 and the late ones are awesome.

Crane Wing sux huge balls except for a few corner cases. Total meme. I did pick it up via late Monk level on her so she could wear Monk Shirt but Wing (I turned it on in TTT to test it) hardly ever triggered because it only triggers on after a full attack. She starts with Dodge so Style was cheap at that point and decent enough.

Helmet of Comradery burns your Helm slot that has better alternatives. If you tank with Seelah the Initiative Helm is far more important. But yes the Godclaw Aura does stack with other Morale Bonuses if you want to get stupid, the AC stacking part just doesn't come up much. Obv the other bonuses stacking makes it even better if bugged. Ring does double the bonus from Godclaw. AoE Aura is easier to apply if ambushed/dispelled than six Heroisms so more reliable way to keep up Morale AB/Dam (Heroisms don't boost damage BTW) in any event.

You wonder how it's possible for Wend Fighter to tank? Full Plate Mithril (or fake Yaniel Armor)+ Armor Training plus she starts with high DEX and picks up more AC from Legendary. It helps to have Inspiring Command and Godclaw Aura from Reg tacking on another +5 AC. Of course having access to Shield Spell (and Expeditious Retreat) Infused is great, but it is not the case that using the Shield item slot is a poor choice. I'm not poasting all the Shields available in the game - you can look them up yourself.

 

[Rhobar121]

Dude, I just built Seelah into a tank, with a Tower Shield via TSS splash at level 6, that owned Unfair and poasted pics. Would you like me to post them again? Tower Shield +3 is on sale at beginning of Ch 2 and the late ones are awesome.

Crane Wing sux huge balls except for a few corner cases. Total meme. I did pick it up via late Monk level on her so she could wear Monk Shirt but Wing (I turned it on in TTT to test it) hardly ever triggered because it only triggers on after a full attack. She starts with Dodge so Style was cheap at that point and decent enough.

Helmet of Comradery burns your Helm slot that has better alternatives. If you tank with Seelah the Initiative Helm is far more important. But yes the Godclaw Aura does stack with other Morale Bonuses if you want to get stupid, the AC stacking part just doesn't come up much. Obv the other bonuses stacking makes it even better if bugged. Ring does double the bonus from Godclaw. AoE Aura is easier to apply if ambushed/dispelled than six Heroisms so more reliable way to keep up Morale AB/Dam (Heroisms don't boost damage BTW) in any event.

You wonder how it's possible for Wend Fighter to tank? Full Plate Mithril (or fake Yaniel Armor)+ Armor Training plus she starts with high DEX and picks up more AC from Legendary. It helps to have Inspiring Command and Godclaw Aura from Reg tacking on another +5 AC. Of course having access to Shield Spell (and Expeditious Retreat) Infused is great, but it is not the case that using the Shield item slot is a poor choice. I'm not poasting all the Shields available in the game - you can look them up yourself.

If it's cumulative, it's a bug that needs to be patched. Buffs of the same type should never stack, if they do, it's just a bug and not something that makes a class good.

I'm not asking you to list each shield separately, only the ones that you think are so good.

Also, I can build a high-level fighter that will tank decently, especially with TabletopTweaks, it doesn't change the fact that it'll be pretty weak for most of the game.

 

[scytheavatar]

Dude, I just built Seelah into a tank, with a Tower Shield via TSS splash at level 6, that owned Unfair and poasted pics. Would you like me to post them again? Tower Shield +3 is on sale at beginning of Ch 2 and the late ones are awesome.

Crane Wing sux huge balls except for a few corner cases. Total meme. I did pick it up via late Monk level on her so she could wear Monk Shirt but Wing (I turned it on in TTT to test it) hardly ever triggered because it only triggers on after a full attack. She starts with Dodge so Style was cheap at that point and decent enough.

Helmet of Comradery burns your Helm slot that has better alternatives. If you tank with Seelah the Initiative Helm is far more important. But yes the Godclaw Aura does stack with other Morale Bonuses if you want to get stupid, the AC stacking part just doesn't come up much. Obv the other bonuses stacking makes it even better if bugged. Ring does double the bonus from Godclaw. AoE Aura is easier to apply if ambushed/dispelled than six Heroisms so more reliable way to keep up Morale AB/Dam (Heroisms don't boost damage BTW) in any event.

You wonder how it's possible for Wend Fighter to tank? Full Plate Mithril (or fake Yaniel Armor)+ Armor Training plus she starts with high DEX and picks up more AC from Legendary. It helps to have Inspiring Command and Godclaw Aura from Reg tacking on another +5 AC. Of course having access to Shield Spell (and Expeditious Retreat) Infused is great, but it is not the case that using the Shield item slot is a poor choice. I'm not poasting all the Shields available in the game - you can look them up yourself.

Problem is that if you make Seelah use a shield then where is your damage going to come from? The damage boast you get from two handing a weapon is just too good to give up. It is a big reason why dex builds are shit in this game compared to str builds.

This is the reason why pet riding builds and naked monk dip builds are superior to Armored builds. You simply can get loads of AC without sacrificing much attack and damage.

 

[Rhobar121]

Also the aura of godclaw is only 3 minutes per day which makes it very limited in relation to what you can get from items.
For me, wasting 9 levels on HK for aura alone is completely waste and much more can be gained just by 19 levels in fighter for Regil or whatever else for mc.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Is it normal for the game to make my CPU go up to 82 degrees celcius? This is the only game to make my CPU do that. Even Total War doesn't have that effect.

Yeah I was having the same problem. Probably some Unity shenanigans.

 

[Desiderius]

Jesus fucking Christ.

Why do I need damage from Seelah? She's not soloing the goddamned game. Like I said, HP doesn't keep up with the scaling so damage is the last thing you need if the rest of your party isn't standing around picking their noses. In the playthrough where I made her the tank the MC ended up just obliterating everything on it's own but Seelah surprised me and still did solid damage thru a ton of maluses.



I just don't get why you want to play a dipshit MMO in your head instead of the great game that you have. It's not one-dimensional. That's a good thing.

Pet riding builds are not superior to a tank that can handle anything (except Stringy Demodand at lvl 8) with Divine Weapon Bond to give Keen early and Brilliant Energy late with some Holy in between. And armorless blows total chunks unless you're forced into it on something like Wolj or Sword Saint. Do the math. Item slots are good, proficiencies are good. Use them. You've got your memes you've fallen for, I've got proof. Haplo does his Mobility Trickster thing and that's great but it's just as satifying to put together a coherent team strategy that worked to get through Unfair with only two reloads (I didn't use Last Stand).

Also the aura of godclaw is only 3 minutes per day which makes it very limited in relation to what you can get from items.
For me, wasting 9 levels on HK for aura alone is completely waste and much more can be gained just by 19 levels in fighter for Regil or whatever else for mc.

3 minutes is 30 rounds. If it's taking you that long to finish fights you're doing something wrong.

It comes down to three fights per rest. That's all the hard ones plus two extra where you want some cushion. You're not wasting 9 levels on Aura alone. Again, I've already listed out all the benefits and broken them down, or you could read them on your own. Do you need me to repost them?

Obv if you're taking Reg you'd use one of the other Orders. They all do unique things. I don't blame you for not wanting to use a bugged ability, but that doesn't make it bad either since the AC is a unique and substantial effect are there are times where you don't have your other Morale bonuses available.

 

[Haplo]

Also the aura of godclaw is only 3 minutes per day which makes it very limited in relation to what you can get from items.
For me, wasting 9 levels on HK for aura alone is completely waste and much more can be gained just by 19 levels in fighter for Regil or whatever else for mc.

Yeah and its a Standard Action to activate, right?
So you either cast some good spell, attack with your weapon.... or activate an aura... 3x per day.

 

[Desiderius]

It stacks because they're rare. Can you name another? Does anyone even play the damn game? There is no bug.

If you guys want to give me shit do it on this. I'd forgotten that it is bugged, but was reminded looking at that screenshot. It just doesn't come up very often on the AC side, though Reg did wear the Helm of Comradery for a couple levels. It's cool that you can use Lizard's Tail with Polymorph, I did not know that.

 

[Desiderius]

Also the aura of godclaw is only 3 minutes per day which makes it very limited in relation to what you can get from items.
For me, wasting 9 levels on HK for aura alone is completely waste and much more can be gained just by 19 levels in fighter for Regil or whatever else for mc.

Yeah and its a Standard Action to activate, right?
So you either cast some good spell, attack with your weapon.... or activate an aura... 3x per day.

You activate it pre-combat like Divine Favor/Power or any other one-minute effect. See also: Prot Evil, Communal vs Dominate effects.

3x as often as Hearth, yes.

 

[Haplo]

Also the aura of godclaw is only 3 minutes per day which makes it very limited in relation to what you can get from items.
For me, wasting 9 levels on HK for aura alone is completely waste and much more can be gained just by 19 levels in fighter for Regil or whatever else for mc.

Yeah and its a Standard Action to activate, right?
So you either cast some good spell, attack with your weapon.... or activate an aura... 3x per day.

You activate it pre-combat like Divine Favor/Power or any other one-minute effect. See also: Prot Evil, Communal vs Dominate effects.

3x as often as Hearth, yes.

I rarely use Hearth as well. Dislike such limited use abilities.
Also because you only get 3 uses, you either metagame and memorize where the tougher fights are beforehand or... yes... waste that Standard Action, which is a pain.
At least Hearth is Swift with Zealot.

 

[Desiderius]

Why are you using a Standard Action at all. Apply it pre-combat like any other rnd/lvl or one-minute buff. It's not combat-only.

It's not exactly metagaming when you can do it on your second playthrough, but the game has enough rests and enough tough fights are isolated that 3 activations per rest is more than enough.

You know how important being able to spike is. There's a couple places like Labyrinth and Prison (and DLC) where you've got to manage your rests but there's nowhere like Vordokai in Wrath. I could spam rest a lot more than I do but even on reasonably limited rests 3 activations is a lot more than 1. I'm not a big Hearth fan either, though it's usually easy to pick up late.