Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Yosharian]

Alright video finished processing Tuco Benedicto Pacifico, let me know what you think

15 mins lol, how you guys can play turd based i don't know.

15 mins with that crappy team, I killed that guy in one round with my team

Nenio and Lann died, I think that disqualify the attempt according to Tuco. Anyway what even is the difficulty?

I don't care, I was using zero effort in this fight

Nenio and Lann only died because I was too lazy to actually position correctly and also I accidentally skipped Sosiel's turn and he wasted another turn because the game is shit

Spoiler

 

[Yosharian]

If I was really trying I could get his AB high enough that he wouldn't even need to use Prescient Attack to hit him on a 2 or better

Darrazand is honestly one of the more pathetic bosses in the game, it's quite shameful how shit he is. I remember when I encountered this guy I didn't even bother screenshotting the kills to put in my guide either of the times I fought him because he was so pathetically easy

 

[Yosharian]

No wait I tell a lie, I found this in my Wrath archive, I did actually screenshot it when I encountered him in the city, but I never bothered uploading it to my guide:

Spoiler

Also it's amusing that people think this guy is unhittable when at level 11 you can encounter Ancient Blighted Treant who has 60 AC and hits like a fucking truck and has some truly horrible abilities

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Nenio and Lann died, I think that disqualify the attempt according to Tuco. Anyway what even is the difficulty?

Yep. Frankly I got a better result on my own, where in my best attempt just the doggo died (when the boss exploded in the end).
And i didn't have to bear the tedium of dealing with a million summons, either.

But I'm not going to shit on Yosharian's effort and I appreciated that he dedicated me some time, to begin with.

 

[Yosharian]

If you got a better result then why the hell were you asking for help in the first place

 

[mediocrepoet]

If you got a better result then why the hell were you asking for help in the first place

Calm down. We all know you weren't really trying and didn't even enter your second form.

 

[ga♥]

I always like the interplay between, "hey, this game seems oddly paced in these ways, any tips?" and, "I have studied the way of the Pathfinder since I was a small boy. It forms the basis of my core beliefs. Quit being terrible and asking questions, you'll ruin everything!"

It's kind of like the nerdier, less bro, version of git gud.

Oh well. The other, bigger, risk to interesting games isn't nerfs; It's having no prospective audience except for a handful of turbo autists with their spreadsheets ready to go.

I think you are just a lil butthurt that Desiderius is a better player than you.
You can keep coping hard or you know, accept the reality, like a grown man.
Just a friendly advice.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I always like the interplay between, "hey, this game seems oddly paced in these ways, any tips?" and, "I have studied the way of the Pathfinder since I was a small boy. It forms the basis of my core beliefs. Quit being terrible and asking questions, you'll ruin everything!"

It's kind of like the nerdier, less bro, version of git gud.

Oh well. The other, bigger, risk to interesting games isn't nerfs; It's having no prospective audience except for a handful of turbo autists with their spreadsheets ready to go.

I think you are just a lil butthurt that Desiderius is a better player than you.
You can keep coping hard or you know, accept the reality, like a grown man.
Just a friendly advice.

Thanks for the friendly advice and laugh.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

If you got a better result then why the hell were you asking for help in the first place

Why are you even acting surprised? I told you upfront that I already beat the fight three times by the time you were trying my savefile.

And my "request for help" was more about what I could have done better given the tool available (my party composition, spells available to my characters, etc).

 

[mediocrepoet]

If you got a better result then why the hell were you asking for help in the first place

Why are you even acting surprised? I told you upfront that I already beat the fight three times by the time you were trying my savefile.

And my "request for help" was more about what I could have done better given the tool available (my party composition, spells available to my characters, etc).

Well you could've... respeced your character into something that wasn't your character.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I think you are just a lil butthurt that Desiderius is a better player than you.

Of course he is. He HAS to be.
He has been uploading his combat log for four years straight at this point. We are bordering the territory of weaponized autism.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I think you are just a lil butthurt that Desiderius is a better player than you.

Of course he is. He HAS to be.
He has been uploading his combat log for four years straight at this point. We are bordering the territory of weaponized autism at this point.

I've seen more pictures of Desi's gameplay than I have of the firstborn children of my friends and family. Possibly combined.

Anyway, I like Desi. Always have. He's just... passionate. Sometimes it's counterproductive imo.

 

[Desiderius]

I always like the interplay between, "hey, this game seems oddly paced in these ways, any tips?" and, "I have studied the way of the Pathfinder since I was a small boy. It forms the basis of my core beliefs. Quit being terrible and asking questions, you'll ruin everything!"

It's kind of like the nerdier, less bro, version of git gud.

Oh well. The other, bigger, risk to interesting games isn't nerfs; It's having no prospective audience except for a handful of turbo autists with their spreadsheets ready to go.

This would work if it were what happened.

He showed up complaining about the fight that's literally on the cover of the game and when he posts pic he has one first level buff up!

I *was* helping him! This isn't spreadsheet this is stir yourself from the very edge of death and take a modicum of interest in the game in front of you.

It's not even a circular firing squad with you guys anymore. You clowns just line up to shoot any sane messenger because its what you've grown used to.

 

[Desiderius]

If you got a better result then why the hell were you asking for help in the first place

Why are you even acting surprised? I told you upfront that I already beat the fight three times by the time you were trying my savefile.

And my "request for help" was more about what I could have done better given the tool available (my party composition, spells available to my characters, etc).

I agree with this. I was helping you!

I posted the original pic:

(1) to demonstrate the game isn't close to overtuned

(2) It can be beat with autoleveled companions that the powergheymers will tell you suck by simply using their spells and abilities

(3) to give you some ideas from the "mathsheet" that you could use yourself

 

[Desiderius]

I think you are just a lil butthurt that Desiderius is a better player than you.

Of course he is. He HAS to be.
He has been uploading his combat log for four years straight at this point. We are bordering the territory of weaponized autism at this point.

I've seen more pictures of Desi's gameplay than I have of the firstborn children of my friends and family. Possibly combined.

Anyway, I like Desi. Always have. He's just... passionate. Sometimes it's counterproductive imo.

I just get mad when the rest of you totally miss what I'm actually passionate about and make the pathologies plaguing the genre worse.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I always like the interplay between, "hey, this game seems oddly paced in these ways, any tips?" and, "I have studied the way of the Pathfinder since I was a small boy. It forms the basis of my core beliefs. Quit being terrible and asking questions, you'll ruin everything!"

It's kind of like the nerdier, less bro, version of git gud.

Oh well. The other, bigger, risk to interesting games isn't nerfs; It's having no prospective audience except for a handful of turbo autists with their spreadsheets ready to go.

This would work if it were what happened.

He showed up complaining about the fight that's literally on the cover of the game and when he posts pic he literally has one first level buff up!

I *was* helping him! This isn't spreadsheet this is stir yourself from the very edge of death and take a modicum of interest in the game in front of you.

It's not even a circular firing squad with you guys anymore. You clowns just line up to shoot any sane messenger because its what you've grown used to.

I think you were trying to help him and meant well, in your own... very Desi way.

Other than that, I like the games and generally have the same aims as you. You don't need to fight with the entire board all the time, even though it's hilarious.

 

[Desiderius]

When the board agrees with lazy fextradeath/neoseeker bullshit I will continue to fight with the board.

Daidre is the one who knows how to effectively dial me back when that's called for.

 

[mediocrepoet]

When the board agrees with lazy fextradeath/neoseeker bullshit I will continue to fight with the board.

Daidre is the one who knows how to effectively dial me back when that's called for.

Oh, I basically never want to dial you back and don't think I've ever tried that.

 

[Desiderius]

To summarize:

Game has different categories of bonuses. You want something in each category so they stack. To hit shit look for attack bonuses.

Luck:

Prayer is always good idea for bosses if you can beat SR. +1 for you, -1 for them no save.

Divine casters (including Pal) get a 1st level spell Divine Favor that scales up to +3 at lvl 9. Cleric/Shaman gets 4th lvl Divine Power that keeps scaling up to +6

Morale:

Bless is +1, Heroism +2, Heroism, Greater +4, Heroic Invocation +4 AoE

Reg Aura scales up to +3 and stacks with other Morale bonuses (probably bug), Cam’s is very short and doesn’t (long enough to kill boss tho)

Sacred/Profane:

Pal has 4th lvl Eaglesoul, Cleric 6th lvl, Sosiel has Touch of Good scaling up to +10 (last for full round so all attacks of Full Attack for instance)

Competence:

Bard/Skald Song gives scaling bonus, Guidance +1

Enhancement:

Crusader’s Edge is +2 vs Evil Outsiders (Demons) with Slashing Weapon (pets count)

Circumstance:

Half of the Pair Amulet +2 if adjacent, range is relatively forgiving

Insight:

True Strike +20 for single attack (good with CMs), Inspiring Command +2 from Nobility Domain (Reg HK talent, Abadar Cleric or Impossible Domain)

These are just examples from each category, there are plenty more to find via spells like Reduce Person for DEX-based. If you keep an eye out for bonuses in each category and try to get one of each to spike for boss fights the game will be a lot more fun.

 

[Desiderius]

BTW, Yosharian is a great player and knows his stuff. I got my start in P:K reading a guide like his from GOG forum (the guy who argued with InEffective, https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/roahins_main_character_builds?as=1649904300) and then tweaking from what he recommended.

That’s a fine way to get a feel for the game *but it isn’t the only one*. Can in fact learn as you go with companions the game gives you and the MC you want to play as long as you pay attention to the various spells and abilities you get as you level.

The classes are designed to pick up a lot of strength from stacking single-class levels but only if you use the stuff it unlocks where needed.

Without a mod buffing can get to be a little much, but you can kind of get a routine and only use long-lasting stuff outside the big boss fights.

 

[Desiderius]

The other thing going on here is that the two classes everyone thought were broken when P:K came out (Vivi and Sword Saint) turn out to have significant downsides that make them not so broken after all (although they're still playable and bring your prty some unique utility and flexibility), the biggest one of which is a mysterious difficulty hitting shit.

Vivi at least has Mutagen to sort of catch up to marital classes, but it lacks the abilities like Studied Target, or Weapon Training or Smite that push those Martial Classes over the top vs bosses. Also Feats.

With SS you've got the Spell Combat malus (and the Monk splashers have the Fighting Defensively Malus) and the abilities it has to make up the gap are relatively short duration so often missed by players that dismiss those. Add to that DEX-based requiring a Feat (it doesn't get many of those!) and a Mythic just to get to where STR-based starts and STR-bonuses easier to come by than DEX (and people not liking Reduce Person) and adding even more maluses with Pirahna Strike it's a recipe for disaster.

That's where I'd imagine the frustration is coming from. BTW the most powerful gamer Haplo does like SS but he does STR-based without Spell Combat. I did a nice playthrough of P:K with DEX-SS/Duelist but you've got to manage your maluses and sometimes just know you're beat and use Touch Attax with no weapon. Frigid Touch is pretty good!

To sum up:

"ZOMG Sword Saint is borken!" = not so much

"Armor is useless, just go DEX armorless" = yeah, no, it has a cost especially with Armor Mythics

"But I like DEX Sword Saint MC Zorroing everything to death" = Go off king, I do too, going to need to put on your thinking cap to fence with Archdemons

 

[Desiderius]

"But you said Nenio was pwning with xbow!"

Yeah, difficulty curve is inverted but for average player learning game SS will lag martial by 10 AB or so by lvl 14 and will need to pay attention to spells and abilities that can make that up. They are there but you've got to actually look.

 

[Average Manatee]

Magus has dimension strike, after which hitting should never be an issue. Before that their ab bonus ability keeps them on par for boss fights

 

[Rhobar121]

If you have a problem with playing on Unfair, you can always try bruteforce in the form of Sosiel with 3 imposible domains (madness, coumunity, nobility), this alone should give you +20AB. It's not a very sophisticated tactic, but it's effective.
I don't care what Desiderius think about it, this tactic is simple, effective, braindead in virtually every fight on Unfair.

 

[Desiderius]

If you have a problem with playing on Unfair, you can always try bruteforce in the form of Sosiel with 3 imposible domains (madness, coumunity, nobility), this alone should give you +20AB. It's not a very sophisticated tactic, but it's effective.
I don't care what Desiderius think about it, this tactic is simple, effective, braindead in virtually every fight on Unfair.

Only thing I think is you don’t need one-weird-tricks and playing that way is an inferior experience to playing as designed/as is customary for the genre, nor are the tricks costless.

Telling people that is the only/best* way to play is depriving them of that experience. Journos promote that because they grew up on shitty games where that was the point. The games PF/BG are a throwback to were better designed.

* - InEffective mocks people who don’t play that way, I mock people who listen to him. People who try to use the one weird tricks without mastering the basics are often disappointed anyway and whine for nerfs