Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

Feint (including Ranged) is in game now, and the new Bard archetype has a Flat-footed song. Final Feint provides flat-foot for whole team.

TTT has Mythic Shatter that affects all attacks too. Outside some specific edge cases Shatter wasn’t necessary anyway and there are some other ways to handle those.

 

[Desiderius]

Shatter was worth it if a character already had Dazzling or wanted Weapon Focus (or got it for free) and suffered from relatively low AB.

That doesn’t apply to most Martial classes, more things like Saint and Vivi, which is where people got hooked on it.

Travel Domain on Regill from Godclaw talent plus Domain Zealot lets him position himself as a Swift Action for Full Attacks every round. He already wants Focus and Dazzling since he’s CHR-based and only wants one weapon.

Give him Mythic Shatter and you’re good.

 

[Mauman]

Feint (including Ranged) is in game now, and the new Bard archetype has a Flat-footed song. Final Feint provides flat-foot for whole team.

TTT has Mythic Shatter that affects all attacks too. Outside some specific edge cases Shatter wasn’t necessary anyway and there are some other ways to handle those.

I'm not using TTT. Maybe on a future playthrough.

And you're right, for most fights it's not necessary. I was relying on it for tougher opponents. I'm also aware their are substitutes. My first playthrough I (as mentioned) used true strike + vital strike for such things.

I might be going back to that.

 

[Desiderius]

Feint (including Ranged) is in game now, and the new Bard archetype has a Flat-footed song. Final Feint provides flat-foot for whole team.

TTT has Mythic Shatter that affects all attacks too. Outside some specific edge cases Shatter wasn’t necessary anyway and there are some other ways to handle those.

I'm not using TTT. Maybe on a future playthrough.

And you're right, for most fights it's not necessary. I was relying on it for tougher opponents. I'm also aware their are substitutes. My first playthrough I (as mentioned) used true strike + vital strike for such things.

I might be going back to that.

Don’t think I’ve ever used Vital in my life. True Strike is nice for landing a key CM but outside of a few tough foes before Mythic Path develops that shouldn’t be necessary either.

Don’t neglect ways to debuff AC like Entangle and common Hexes that tick up to -4 at lvl 8. Mallender’s Belt etc, there are almost infinite ways to affect the AB/AC equation. Brilliant Energy can be really good!

That said lots of new sources of that to try out too.

 

[Mauman]

Feint (including Ranged) is in game now, and the new Bard archetype has a Flat-footed song. Final Feint provides flat-foot for whole team.

TTT has Mythic Shatter that affects all attacks too. Outside some specific edge cases Shatter wasn’t necessary anyway and there are some other ways to handle those.

I'm not using TTT. Maybe on a future playthrough.

And you're right, for most fights it's not necessary. I was relying on it for tougher opponents. I'm also aware their are substitutes. My first playthrough I (as mentioned) used true strike + vital strike for such things.

I might be going back to that.

Don’t think I’ve ever used Vital in my life. True Strike is nice for landing a key CM but outside of a few tough foes before Mythic Path develops that shouldn’t be necessary either.

Don’t neglect ways to debuff AC like Entangle and common Hexes that tick up to -4 at lvl 8. Mallender’s Belt etc, there are almost infinite ways to affect the AB/AC equation. Brilliant Energy can be really good!

That said lots of new sources of that to try out too.

Hehe...yeah.

Entangle annoys me and the save is too low. I, uh, took M's insult rather than penance so that's out. Evil eye on the other hand....that's a really good point. Maybe it's time for my Shaman Angel to dust that off occasionally. Of course, I run into the logical problem of "if I can't hit them, why not just orbital strike them till they're dust" issue.

Brilliant Energy is a good one as well. Of course it was bugged as fuck back when I last played (and definitely NOT in our favor), but I assume that was fixed.

 

[MerchantKing]

Sigh....the change to shattered (while warranted), really did affect it's usage.

I wonder if I should respec my characters out of it. I don't think it's worth all of the feat costs at this point (outside of my fear bomber, which might as well have it).

Going to have to figure out a better way to get over the huge ACs in this game I suppose. Maybe I should go back to what I did in my trickster playthrough and have characters with true strike, sorcerous reflex, and vital strike.

On the other hand, considering I'm playing angel this time around, anything that actually DOES have that high of an AC I can just Death Star over and over again.

edit - as an aside, is it just me or is the longspear charging bonus completely broken? Spirited charge still works, but I'm not getting the extra multiplier while charging with a longspear.

2nd edit - I tried charging with someone without spirited charge to see if it was a spirited charge stacking issue (which shouldn't be a thing and it worked in the past giving a x3 multiplier). It doesn't work at all now. Seriously, how does Owlcat manage to break things that weren't broken to begin with when adding new stuff?

3rd edit - another aside, evidently the new intensified metamagic (increases damage dice per level cap by 5) works with battering blast. With each individual blast. And bolster works with each of those new dice. Add on the robe and knife that add to force damage.....maybe an empower and/or maximize....

Return to tradition:

Cloudkill + Stinking Cloud + Corrupter

 

[Mauman]

Sigh....the change to shattered (while warranted), really did affect it's usage.

I wonder if I should respec my characters out of it. I don't think it's worth all of the feat costs at this point (outside of my fear bomber, which might as well have it).

Going to have to figure out a better way to get over the huge ACs in this game I suppose. Maybe I should go back to what I did in my trickster playthrough and have characters with true strike, sorcerous reflex, and vital strike.

On the other hand, considering I'm playing angel this time around, anything that actually DOES have that high of an AC I can just Death Star over and over again.

edit - as an aside, is it just me or is the longspear charging bonus completely broken? Spirited charge still works, but I'm not getting the extra multiplier while charging with a longspear.

2nd edit - I tried charging with someone without spirited charge to see if it was a spirited charge stacking issue (which shouldn't be a thing and it worked in the past giving a x3 multiplier). It doesn't work at all now. Seriously, how does Owlcat manage to break things that weren't broken to begin with when adding new stuff?

3rd edit - another aside, evidently the new intensified metamagic (increases damage dice per level cap by 5) works with battering blast. With each individual blast. And bolster works with each of those new dice. Add on the robe and knife that add to force damage.....maybe an empower and/or maximize....

Return to tradition:

Cloudkill + Stinking Cloud + Corrupter

Not as good as you might think, at least for stinking cloud. Yes, it bypasses poison immunity, but there's still quite a few enemies immune to sicken/nauseated and it doesn't circumvent that.

Not sure about cloudkill. Never got around to testing that.

Regardless, still good.

 

[Yosharian]

Sigh....the change to shattered (while warranted), really did affect it's usage.

I presume you're talking about Shatter Defenses? What did they do to it?

 

[Mauman]

Sigh....the change to shattered (while warranted), really did affect it's usage.

I presume you're talking about Shatter Defenses? What did they do to it?

It now works how it's supposed to

Basically, the bearer of the feat has to actually hit it's target before the target is considered flat footed for that character only. So if you couldn't really hit the target to begin with....well....yeah.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Can you opt out of the festival if the DLC is installed?

 

[Desiderius]

Sigh....the change to shattered (while warranted), really did affect it's usage.

I presume you're talking about Shatter Defenses? What did they do to it?

It now works how it's supposed to

Basically, the bearer of the feat has to actually hit it's target before the target is considered flat footed for that character only. So if you couldn't really hit the target to begin with....well....yeah.

The purpose is for landing your iteratives. If you can’t hit at full BAB consider sucking less instead.

 

[Desiderius]

Entangle annoys me and the save is too low

Not the spell, that’s a big pain to avoid anyway, effects that apply it usually with no save. Rime Metamagic is the most reliable but that’s TTT too, there’s a couple other ways in vanilla IIRC. No save Sicken from Big Game Gloves or AoE with Cruromancer also underrated.

Cam’s Hampering Hex is most reliable AC reducer since it works on everything (not mind-affecting), and gives you a round even on made save.

Can reliably apply Shaken and Sicken in first round (and Sometimes Archon’s) to increase chances on failed save for other debuffs.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Hmm, new Bard actually looks kinda interesting, but not sure what Mythic I would go with.

 

[Mauman]

Hmm, new Bard actually looks kinda interesting, but not sure what Mythic I would go with.

Check out the new skald inciter. While giving up 2 rage powers is indeed painful (nothing that a few feats can't fix), getting 4d6 sneak and the ability to share 3d6 sneak with everyone (including rogue talents!!! Dispel strikes for EVERYONE) is kinda nutters.

The free debuff that you inflict on all enemies is just the cherry on top.

 

[Desiderius]

Skald looks a lot better (with the usual Skald downside though). Flat-foot song has to beat save and you’re turning off Inspire Courage to use it. The damage is abysmally low.

 

[Desiderius]

Hmm, new Bard actually looks kinda interesting, but not sure what Mythic I would go with.

Check out the new skald inciter. While giving up 2 rage powers is indeed painful (nothing that a few feats can't fix), getting 4d6 sneak and the ability to share 3d6 sneak with everyone (including rogue talents!!! Dispel strikes for EVERYONE) is kinda nutters.

The free debuff that you inflict on all enemies is just the cherry on top.

Free debuff (especially if it acts like a taunt) and the Persuasion bonus per level are main draws. There’s also a couple new Advanced Rogue Talents you can share that are interesting…

Several new DC boosting feats too.

 

[Mauman]

The lesser spirit totem line is in the game files, but they appear to be non-functional right now. I noticed it when respeccing my skald and the lesser totem prereqs mentioned it. Used toybox to look and yup, they're there.

That would make for an interesting alternative to the beast totem.

Although I have no idea how the hell Owlcat would implement said rage powers in this game.

edit - Desiderius honestly, I'm the opposite in priorities. The debuff is nice but it's not something I'd focus on as I make my Skalds a melee character. And the persuasion bonus is nice but Skald is a class that I really want the capstone on and I prefer my fear bomber to have certain dips such as thug. Also, it's really not that hard to get your intimidate up stupid high for fear bombing. That being said, if they did implement spirit totem, that might be enough to get me to make a charisma focused skald.

Amazing class either way though.

 

[GloomFrost]

Hmm, new Bard actually looks kinda interesting, but not sure what Mythic I would go with.

Azata is an absolute perfect Mythic Path for bard and Desna as Deity!

 

[Desiderius]

The debuff is nice but it's not something I'd focus on as I make my Skalds a melee character.

Then… don’t make your Skald a melee character. You’ve got (jacked up!) Martials and pets/summons for that and he’s the only one that can cast under the effect of Rage. My guess is that’s what the new DC boosting feats are for. Notice the Swift one uses a Persuasion check.

Guarded Stance FTW

Keeps getting better as you level and helps keep the debuff up. The Sneaks do help on ranged characters that get a raw deal from Rage compared to Inspire Courage.

 

[Desiderius]

(It is hard to get Intimidate high enough to work 100% on those targets you’re trying to Shatter - can’t crit fail a skill check!)

Fear bombing isn’t as good w/Skald since it takes mobs out of melee range.

 

[Mauman]

(It is hard to get Intimidate high enough to work 100% on those targets you’re trying to Shatter - can’t crit fail a skill check!)

Fear bombing isn’t as good w/Skald since it takes mobs out of melee range.

I play turned based so that's not really an issue. Also, even if they do run they generally spend their whole turn coming back the next round and the A.I. isn't smart enough to get reinforcements.

Also, I like melee skalds

 

[Desiderius]

How is there anything left standing for them to hit?

If you just want to buff yourself play a Barb.

The stuff that I care about killing doesn’t run back, it turns around and nukes my shit. Fear is good combo with Ranged.

 

[Average Manatee]

Sigh....the change to shattered (while warranted), really did affect it's usage.

I presume you're talking about Shatter Defenses? What did they do to it?

It now works how it's supposed to

Basically, the bearer of the feat has to actually hit it's target before the target is considered flat footed for that character only. So if you couldn't really hit the target to begin with....well....yeah.

Was wondering when that was going to be fixed. Probably not much worth it now considering the requirements.

Hmm, new Bard actually looks kinda interesting, but not sure what Mythic I would go with.

Check out the new skald inciter. While giving up 2 rage powers is indeed painful (nothing that a few feats can't fix), getting 4d6 sneak and the ability to share 3d6 sneak with everyone (including rogue talents!!! Dispel strikes for EVERYONE) is kinda nutters.

The free debuff that you inflict on all enemies is just the cherry on top.

You're basically trading your skald talents (which would be combat tricks->some melee combat feat) for sneak attacks. I think that's probably a bad trade in most cases.

Being two rage powers behind is big, that's two less feats you have to spend on things. Basically all your feats are going to be stuck in rage powers and other support stuff, so you won't be hitting or dealing much damage in melee yourself. This is fine but being pure support is generally bad for an MC. +3d6 sneak to your party is 10.5 damage. That's not bad, but it comes *really* late, only getting your first 1d6 at level 8.

The "free" debuff is the usual "relevant enemies will save against this 95% of the time" thing. Things need equipment/feat/mythic support to reach good DCs in this game. Ditto for dispelling attack, doesn't it cap at character level? I don't think that's sufficient to dispel bosses much. Good dispelling requires much higher checks somehow.

Maybe at level 20 (or 40) you'll be ahead but I think the leveling experience will be much worse and you'll feel incredibly feat starved.

 

[Mauman]

You're basically trading your skald talents (which would be combat tricks->some melee combat feat) for sneak attacks. I think that's probably a bad trade in most cases.

Being two rage powers behind is big, that's two less feats you have to spend on things. Basically all your feats are going to be stuck in rage powers and other support stuff, so you won't be hitting or dealing much damage in melee yourself. This is fine but being pure support is generally bad for an MC. +3d6 sneak to your party is 10.5 damage. That's not bad, but it comes *really* late, only getting your first 1d6 at level 8.

The "free" debuff is the usual "relevant enemies will save against this 95% of the time" thing. Things need equipment/feat/mythic support to reach good DCs in this game. Ditto for dispelling attack, doesn't it cap at character level? I don't think that's sufficient to dispel bosses much. Good dispelling requires much higher checks somehow.

Maybe at level 20 (or 40) you'll be ahead but I think the leveling experience will be much worse and you'll feel incredibly feat starved.

You don't lose the skald talents. The progression starts two levels later, but you get the same amount. You can just choose between combat feats and the rogue talents this time around. Don't want to take dispelling/whatever strike? Then don't.

I do agree that 2 rage powers is a big deal, but I recently respecced my melee skald at level 16 and even though I had to take extra rage a few extra times I was still at the point where I was like "I guess I can take weapon focus now, I don't know what else to really take".

As for the sneak attack bonus, I guess it comes down to your party makeup. If you have lots of melee/archers/ray casters and animal companions, even 1d6 is going to add a lot over time. It also stacks with pre-existing sneak attack (as long as you don't go over the half-level max).

Finally, I agree about the debuff. However, it's free action economy wise (besides using your incite rage) and the capstone makes it work even if it doesn't. So yeah, like I said, cherry on top.

edit - oh, and they get an up to +4 extra bonus on will saves towards most effects, because why the hell not, I guess?

 

[Average Manatee]

You don't lose the skald talents. The progression starts two levels later, but you get the same amount. You can just choose between combat feats and the rogue talents this time around. Don't want to take dispelling/whatever strike? Then don't.

Ahh, the game confused me with how its laid out. Definitely a lot better then.

I do agree that 2 rage powers is a big deal, but I recently respecced my melee skald at level 16 and even though I had to take extra rage a few extra times I was still at the point where I was like "I guess I can take weapon focus now, I don't know what else to really take".

I mean I generally build skald as a two handed melee character and between the melee feats and the rage powers I end up with only like 1 extra feat by level 20 I can do without.

As for the sneak attack bonus, I guess it comes down to your party makeup. If you have lots of melee/archers/ray casters and animal companions, even 1d6 is going to add a lot over time. It also stacks with pre-existing sneak attack (as long as you don't go over the half-level max).

Ehh, by the lategame when you're dealing like 50 damage minimum per attack, and the sneak isn't multiplied on crits (which are between 50% and 100% of the hits you land), I think its not that great.

So, losing two feats for the sneak stuff. I'd say its probably slightly better than base skald but not significantly. Personally I still need to do a Mad Dog 19/Skald 1.