Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Mauman]

Did some testing with inciter's incite, the sneak attacks, and the dispel

Yes, dispel on sneak attack is shared to everyone.

Interestingly, it counts as the skald dispelling and not the individual characters. That means feats like dispel focus and the dispel stun feat work for everyone, not just the skald.

Even on unfair, you have a good chance of dispelling all but the hardest effects due to how many dispell checks are going to happen. Even the harder ones have a chance if only due to the sheer volume of checks.

edit - as an aside, I kinda feel bad for Aeon Mythic now, as mass dispels were kind of their thing (and one of the few really interesting things they get). No need for Aeon now if you want lot's of dispels on hit I guess.

 

[Desiderius]

TTT has a couple of the Touch spells that give you a use per level on one cast (like Frostbite). Combined with Rime meta pretty handy.

Holy etc isn’t as good if I’m only hitting once per round, and the gimmicky stiff that helps you hits stuff can be gotten other ways (don’t have any iteratives that need the help).

 

[Desiderius]

On Kin Sharpshooter Infusion Specialization currently applies (from 1 to 0) to Burning Infusion, so it can be used on all shots. At lvl 5 it does *not * apply to Exloding Arrows which is stuck at 2. Still have enough pts in Quiver to use it where it applies. Empower always costs 1.

Range appears to depend on the weapon, effectively giving Extended Range for free. Often worth it to move into Close Range for Point Blank bonus, and since you’re not using Full Attacks or Gather that’s typically doable outside of surprise rounds.

Feels a lot more mobile than conventional Archers/Kinnies. Could also just stand still and use Move Action for Ranged Feint to help Physical Blasts land if you can get Bluff high enough.

 

[Desiderius]

Effortless Armor does not raise the DEX Bonus like Armor Training does. Interested to see if the Skill penalty reduction stacks. Very relevant for Stealth and convenience since those penalties now affect Trickery.

 

[Desiderius]

Did some testing with inciter's incite, the sneak attacks, and the dispel

Yes, dispel on sneak attack is shared to everyone.

Interestingly, it counts as the skald dispelling and not the individual characters. That means feats like dispel focus and the dispel stun feat work for everyone, not just the skald.

Even on unfair, you have a good chance of dispelling all but the hardest effects due to how many dispell checks are going to happen. Even the harder ones have a chance if only due to the sheer volume of checks.

edit - as an aside, I kinda feel bad for Aeon Mythic now, as mass dispels were kind of their thing (and one of the few really interesting things they get). No need for Aeon now if you want lot's of dispels on hit I guess.

I… wouldn’t worry about Aeon.

IYKYK

Nerfing damage packets probably hurt it more (they’ve been adding viable Dispel options for a while), but it will still be fine. Haplo thinks it’s a little slow to get started (just like Inq class it resembles) but it’s fine once it does.

 

[Daidre]

Yes I know that many think that Unfair makes AC irrelevant

I think that AC stacking sucks on the class that is built around Armour, staying pure and does not have Uncanny Dodge or at least some big Initiative bonus (like Sohei). And the major offenders are "Armoured" archetypes - Steelblood, Armored Hulk and Armored Battlemage. Even DR stacking is less trite than that bunch.

Extra annoying that damage from Mythic Armour Focus - Assault for Heavy/Medium was treated as attack with non-enchanted weapon when I have tested it some time ago and it was eaten by DR even against weaker demons, while Mythic Armour Focus - Assault for Light is whopping +4 Attack and Damage with Finesse weapon in Chainmail of Camaraderie, that is found mid Chapter 2, making it one of the best Mythic Feat investments even at MR 2 (Mythril Medium is treated as Light for Mythic Armour Focus).

 

[Average Manatee]

Did some testing with inciter's incite, the sneak attacks, and the dispel

Yes, dispel on sneak attack is shared to everyone.

Interestingly, it counts as the skald dispelling and not the individual characters. That means feats like dispel focus and the dispel stun feat work for everyone, not just the skald.

Even on unfair, you have a good chance of dispelling all but the hardest effects due to how many dispell checks are going to happen. Even the harder ones have a chance if only due to the sheer volume of checks.

edit - as an aside, I kinda feel bad for Aeon Mythic now, as mass dispels were kind of their thing (and one of the few really interesting things they get). No need for Aeon now if you want lot's of dispels on hit I guess.

Ehh, in most cases if you want to dispel an enemy its because you can't hit it and its the buffs that are raising the AC too high for you. If you can hit an enemy 10 times in a round to successfully roll a 5% chance to dispel, you don't need the dispel because they are dead, or at least close enough that taking off 1 random buff from the enemy isn't a big deal. I checked and Areelu has about 20 different buffs up, maybe you dispel something important, maybe you dispel something useless like mind blank or resist sonic.

It'd be good if there were tough enemies that had tons of DR enchantments, which would be easy to hit but hard to damage (but not if you dispel the buffs), but I don't think anything like that exists.

Aeon Mythic does a dispel check against every buff simultaneously, so its still a lot better. In the case of Areelu about 20x better.

Is there anything Inciter can add aside from the sneak attack advanced talents? Opportunist? Double Debilitation?

 

[Desiderius]

Yes I know that many think that Unfair makes AC irrelevant

I think that AC stacking sucks on the class that is built around Armour, staying pure and does not have Uncanny Dodge or at least some big Initiative bonus (like Sohei). And the major offenders are "Armoured" archetypes - Steelblood, Armored Hulk and Armored Battlemage. Even DR stacking is less trite than that bunch.

Extra annoying that damage from Mythic Armour Focus - Assault for Heavy/Medium was treated as attack with non-enchanted weapon when I have tested it some time ago and it was eaten by DR even against weaker demons, while Mythic Armour Focus - Assault for Light is whopping +4 Attack and Damage with Finesse weapon in Chainmail of Camaraderie, that is found mid Chapter 2, making it one of the best Mythic Feat investments even at MR 2 (Mythril Medium is treated as Light for Mythic Armour Focus).

Why are you choosing that Mythic lol.

So many people maxxxing DPS, so few playing the game in front of them, and you're trying to add damage to your iteratives on a class that relies on the big spike instead. Tbh I'm tempted to just buildaround that White Dragon Medium since the Medium Focus Mythics are in general better than the Heavy for ABattlemage, especially DEX-based.

For Heavy, DR precedes Unfair damage doubling so the DR/- on Heavy Mythic stacking can in fact be a big deal if you want to go that way. Magus gets Stoneskin and there are other sources in game, it's just a shame that the one on Tower Focus isn't a great fit.

Not sure what's TTT and in-game now but the qualifying for Fighter Feats unlocks Armor Training Feats like Armor Specialization:



Arcana picks are interesting. Any source of Extend makes the no save Stagger on Frigid Touch last two rounds. Took Empower first, Spell Blending to get Sense Vitals and Ghoul Touch next, then Maximize. Dimensional Strike not awful but you can always just cast instead of Spellstriking if you want to do that. The one big hit approach means you can use True Strike to Spellstrike with the weapon, no need for the whole round. Extended True Strike covers two hits or a CMB plus Hit BTW.

 

[Desiderius]

Did some testing with inciter's incite, the sneak attacks, and the dispel

Yes, dispel on sneak attack is shared to everyone.

Interestingly, it counts as the skald dispelling and not the individual characters. That means feats like dispel focus and the dispel stun feat work for everyone, not just the skald.

Even on unfair, you have a good chance of dispelling all but the hardest effects due to how many dispell checks are going to happen. Even the harder ones have a chance if only due to the sheer volume of checks.

edit - as an aside, I kinda feel bad for Aeon Mythic now, as mass dispels were kind of their thing (and one of the few really interesting things they get). No need for Aeon now if you want lot's of dispels on hit I guess.

Ehh, in most cases if you want to dispel an enemy its because you can't hit it and its the buffs that are raising the AC too high for you. If you can hit an enemy 10 times in a round to successfully roll a 5% chance to dispel, you don't need the dispel because they are dead, or at least close enough that taking off 1 random buff from the enemy isn't a big deal. I checked and Areelu has about 20 different buffs up, maybe you dispel something important, maybe you dispel something useless like mind blank or resist sonic.

It'd be good if there were tough enemies that had tons of DR enchantments, which would be easy to hit but hard to damage (but not if you dispel the buffs), but I don't think anything like that exists.

Aeon Mythic does a dispel check against every buff simultaneously, so its still a lot better. In the case of Areelu about 20x better.

Is there anything Inciter can add aside from the sneak attack advanced talents? Opportunist? Double Debilitation?

There are some new Sneak Talents.

 

[Desiderius]

I think that AC stacking sucks on the class that is built around Armour, staying pure and does not have Uncanny Dodge or at least some big Initiative bonus (like Sohei).

Outside of a few scripted fights Uncanny Dodge wouldn’t come up that much after first few levels (where it can be managed). AB has Expeditious Retreat and decent Stealth with Effortless and Armor Training so won’t draw attention before it gets to act unless you’re trying to tank with it. Also obv has Mirror Image to eat the first few times it does draw attention.

Opening with tank Charge or Ranged shot from Stealth gives surprise round to see action order and play accordingly. And nice thing about Armor and Shield (spell) is that it isn’t as vulnerable to flat-footed.

Steelblood and Armored Hulk just don’t do as much as AB does. Those base classes are a lot hardier than Magus already.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I've played around a bit with inciter - it is kinda nuts when you actually build the party around it.

 

[Average Manatee]

I mean Skald is already nuts when you build a party with a lot of melee characters (ideally mounted of course).

 

[Desiderius]

Inciter puts some nice twists on it, and I love the scaling Initimidate/Bluff with the Feint Feats in game now.

There's a mod that gives you the trade-off Feats for free (if you qualify, Combat Expertise requires 13 INT) if the Feat tax feels too high for Feint/Final Feint, but of course Demoralize costs none.

 

[Daidre]

AB has Expeditious Retreat and decent Stealth with Effortless and Armor Training so won’t draw attention before it gets to act unless you’re trying to tank with it. Also obv has Mirror Image to eat the first few times it does draw attention.

Armored Class that sacrificed weapon enchants for AC bonuses and does not want to draw attention while tank is doing his work.
That is pure gold.

So many people maxxxing DPS

It is about maxing AB bonuses. I usually experiment with builds in Rogue-like mode and there, without main campaign's overabundance of enchanted loot, +3-4 untyped AB bonus is huge, especially if you play on Hard+ or want to do at least one run without Skald.

Not mentioning cute secret boss who who got 100+ AC after dispel.

 

[Desiderius]

Idk I fired it up and was at 54 AC at lvl 13 probably missing 3 or 4 things as one does with a respec midstream.

You're missing the point. It doesn't draw attention while flat-footed, so Uncanny wouldn't come into play. The rest of the fight happens after that. That's the whole point of having a tank open combat with Charge to turn on Fighting Defensively. Rest of the team comes in depending on intiative roll and how things react to that.

The difference is Battlemage walks up and does 100 plus multiple debuffs (this at lvl 13 testing) with its Standard Action (or more if it crits 15-20). Rest of team finishes off that target (along with others) if necessary then rinse and repeat.

Don't have to worry about getting full attacks.

Not mentioning cute secret boss who who got 100+ AC after dispel.

This one?



I hear the PD's big brother has like 135 AC but I haven't had the patience to get to it.



The Armor Mythic you were talking about adds damage, not AB. The Light one adds AB.

Battlemage is nonbo with Skald but there are a lot of ways to boost AB. Since it's only attacking once per round that includes True Strike.

 

[Desiderius]

That is pure gold.

Yeah, I play tinman. Last Unfair run had all melee pretty much untouchable by non-bosses, with Danger Ward back-up for saves.

Making an allowance for my advanced age.

https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Danger+Ward

 

[Daidre]

This one?

Not, this one

Spoiler

Spoiler

BTW, It should be easier now with new Bard Mythic at least and everything else.

 

[Joryyyy]

So what is the consensus in the last dlc here? Worth it or not?

 

[Desiderius]

Yes, that's the one I was talking about. At least some challenge has been restored with damage packets scaled back. You can see that MC abusing them in that pic.

That DLC not really my cup of tea so I'll be taking a pass on that gentleman.

 

[Mauman]

This one?

Not, this one

Spoiler

Spoiler

BTW, It should be easier now with new Bard Mythic at least and everything else.

spell immunity? Does that mean "immune to spells that require spell resistance check" or "immune to ALL spells"? Because OUCH if the latter for spell casting parties.

I ask because "spell immunity" generally means the former in actual tabletop pathfinder.

 

[Daidre]

I ask because "spell immunity" generally means the former in actual tabletop pathfinder.

Looks like immune to everything with SR check. I have nuked it with Angel's Bolt of Justice (Conjuration) during my first kill.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Seems like Skald Inciter is the only the archtype that's playabe right now because even Sable Marine Ranger is bugged and your Pet doesn't proprely level up. Fuuuuck

 

[Yosharian]

Did some testing with inciter's incite, the sneak attacks, and the dispel

Yes, dispel on sneak attack is shared to everyone.

Interestingly, it counts as the skald dispelling and not the individual characters. That means feats like dispel focus and the dispel stun feat work for everyone, not just the skald.

Even on unfair, you have a good chance of dispelling all but the hardest effects due to how many dispell checks are going to happen. Even the harder ones have a chance if only due to the sheer volume of checks.

edit - as an aside, I kinda feel bad for Aeon Mythic now, as mass dispels were kind of their thing (and one of the few really interesting things they get). No need for Aeon now if you want lot's of dispels on hit I guess.

Wait what

Everyone gets Dispel-on-hit?

What if the target is immune to SA?

 

[Daidre]

Seems like Skald Inciter is the only the archtype that's playabe right now because even Sable Marine Ranger is bugged and your Pet doesn't proprely level up. Fuuuuck

Not just Sable Marine Ranger Half of the classes with full pet progression - Nature Oracle or Hunter, for example, also bug out and pet is one lvl behind starting from level 3 or so.

Boon Companion fixes it, but it annoys me to no end.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I mean Skald is already nuts when you build a party with a lot of melee characters (ideally mounted of course).

Well yeah, now imagine they all have sneak attack on top.