Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

All the mid game DLCs already trivialize the game anyway. By the time you reach Abyss you're super overleveled with unlimited funds. Although credit where credit's due, we can make fun of overly complex difficulty settings, but you can certainly compensate for most of power creep by moving some sliders around.

In-game Ship is ghey. Skip it.

 

[Desiderius]

What is a Sawtooth saber? Just looks like a Scimitar with exotic prof?

Is it still Fauchards and Falchions for the win?

Edit: Did they nerf Smilidon's attacks? I guess it is just Wolf as best pet now.

There is no FTW. Pretty much all weapons have their niche and crits are far from the only thing going on. Fauch costs an extra Feat and Falchion requires Martial Prof unless you're Half-Orc (and doesn't have Reach while taking up Shield slot).

Sawtooth Saber trades Exotic cost for being Light Longsword (still counts as Heavy Blade). Finesseable like a Dueling Sword, but can be used in off-hand without penalty.

Mantis Zealot Warpriest is built around DWing them.

 

[Desiderius]

Never done a "pure caster" for MC. And trickster? Do they get merged spellbooks?

Only angel and lich can do this.

Caster has great synergy with Azata.
Personally, I like the Azata Ray Blaster. It starts slowly but then literally melts enemies.
Choosing zippy magic practically doubles your dps which, thanks to the number of items that increase fire dmg, is quite good, especially after reaching level 11.
If you add Incredible Might to it in act 4 (especially if you have a ring that doubles your morale bonus), virtually every cast will kill everything that is not completely immune to magic.
If I remember correctly, the bonus works on every single ray.

Have to be careful not to trivialize game with some casters. Merged isn’t autowin but you get overleveled, optimized Best Jokes or Zippy Nuker can get pretty dumb fast.

Phanstasmal Mage Shadow Spells Azata is very nice selection of control/nukes without being too foolproof to maintain interest, at least until Weird shows up and you get the DC to silly levels.

I don't know about the lich, but merged angel is definitely an autowin but unfortunately extremely boring.
All you do is spam bolt/storm of justice and everything dies because for some reason it not only deals high damage, it also has cc built and ignores magic resistance.
With other caster builds, you have to sacrifice feats to make the build work. In the case of angel, you can just as easily remove all feats from the game and it will work just as well.
Additionally, you have access to powerful high-level spells already in Act 3.

Bolt/Storm is fine but the damage isn't that high compared to meta nukes and the CC isn't trival on Unfair. It's not sacrificing lol, it's the build itself.

As you note it's dumb because it's overleveled and costless but it's not autowin. Angel pairs well with martials and non-divine hybrids for the self-buffs and utility. Assuming Lich does as well.

I'd imagine merged Lich fighting through the boredom of utter domination to achieve some ultimate goal would be better RP, but maybe that's a struggle for Angels too.

I guess it is just Wolf as best pet now.

They added stuff to several of the pets. Lizard has Grapple now. There is no best, depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Loving my current Hippogriff.

 

[Yosharian]

All the mid game DLCs already trivialize the game anyway. By the time you reach Abyss you're super overleveled with unlimited funds. Although credit where credit's due, we can make fun of overly complex difficulty settings, but you can certainly compensate for most of power creep by moving some sliders around.

It's odd because the Playful Darkness encounter is way before the major power creep hits, and is extremely challenging for most builds/parties (certain cheesy spells aside)

So they showed they're willing to really challenge players pretty hard midgame

And then Mephisto dies in one round of attacks...

 

[Desiderius]

The way the zone is set up it's more natural to encounter him after returning to the Fane in Act4. Have to go out of your way to find him in Act 3. More manageable with another couple levels and Abyss items (and fifth Mythic level).

 

[Desiderius]

Downside of Sawtooth Saber/Mantis Zealot is no obvious way to get damage from it*.

Class has no Sneaks and is 3/4. Slashing Grace doesn't work with DW, so only way to get DEX-to-dam is burning the Mythic Feat, but it has a lot of competition**.

Only Light Armor prof, and abilities use DEX-bonus so highly incentivized to go DEX-based.

* - it does get Weapon Specialization (and Greater) with class levels in exchange for some of the Bonus Combat Feats from base Warpriest

** - Mythic Light Armor Focus is +3/+3 with +2 Chainshirts and grows from there, Mythic Two-Weapon and Mythic Weapon Focus are +2 AB each

 

[Desiderius]

Provided pic to give ideas of how to get that damage. Class has Weapon Enchanting like Magus. Turns out not to be a concern. *Great* fit with Inciter. Warpriest in general underrated since setting rewards a second Divine caster and high rest environment good fit with low duration abilities.

Check out Death Blessing! Law Blessing solid too, as is Trickery.

 

[Mauman]

So all finished now? Ready for a 3rd playthrough? So far Oracle angel, Vivi lich and then something else I guess.

Trickster Gnome Illusionist Arcanist. Use the Keen Gnome.

It's called Phantasmal Mage, it's pretty great. Shadow Spells offset the downside of Arcanist (you basically have a full spellbook at your disposal) and they all count as Illusion spells now.

Go Azata to get Favorable Magic and Will saves DC bonuses. Meta for Exploit pts.

Don't go Azata. Azata tell terrible jokes and in spite of being bards they don't have any good stories. Go trickster.

That weird moment when I agree with the turnip stinking gnome.

I swear to whatever powers that be that whoever wrote Azata also wrote Tumblr fanfiction. Or at the very least, used it as a base.

 

[Rhobar121]

Not that Trickster wasn't a walking joke. The whole point of this path is for it to be stupid.

Another option is the demon. It's fits quite well into the game and has good reactivity (on par with the angel), especially in later acts.
Unlike azata, it is more universal but still great for a caster. Unfortunately, it doesn't work very well as a charisma caster, which is why int caster is a much better choice.
This is not a serious problem because they have much cheaper metamagic (a whole turn in the case of sorcerer vs standard action for wizard to cast a spell with metamagic)
I successfully used it as a ray caster on Unfair (it was still very easy), although it would probably be better as a different type of caster.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Angel for Divine, Lich for Arcane, Trickster for physical, Aeon for larping and Azata for faggots.

 

[Average Manatee]

All the mid game DLCs already trivialize the game anyway. By the time you reach Abyss you're super overleveled with unlimited funds. Although credit where credit's due, we can make fun of overly complex difficulty settings, but you can certainly compensate for most of power creep by moving some sliders around.

The difficulty sliders don't really compensate in the way that the DLCs buff players. Especially DLC items which can completely revolutionize certain builds.

It's odd because the Playful Darkness encounter is way before the major power creep hits, and is extremely challenging for most builds/parties (certain cheesy spells aside)

So they showed they're willing to really challenge players pretty hard midgame

And then Mephisto dies in one round of attacks...

You can go back to Playful Darkness for all of Chapter 4 though, right? I've never tried it but I assume that once you're at the start of chapter 5 that it'll be hard not to smack down playful even with a very unoptimized party.

 

[Average Manatee]

I guess it is just Wolf as best pet now.

They added stuff to several of the pets. Lizard has Grapple now. There is no best, depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Loving my current Hippogriff.

Overall best generic pet is Dog now imo. Additional -2 and later -4 AC penalty to trip is pretty huge. Wolf has slightly different stats from Dog (slightly worse IMO) and +2/+4 damage on tripped targets but lowering their AC for your whole party is definitely better.

Mechanically Grapple is just a worse version of Trip, I think? The enemy can still make a full attack action at you (tripped enemy has to get up and can only take a standard action) and grappling itself prevents the grappler from taking standard actions. I guess you can probably grapple near everything in theory as long as your CMB check is high enough while there are things immune to trip though.

 

[Desiderius]

Depends what you're trying to accomplish.

Ulbrig can make things a little trivial (as long as you can keep him alive) by Grappling any dangerous caster (including eventually bosses) to keep them from casting spells (or moving). Unlike in KotC Grappling doesn't make ranged attacks against the Grappled essentially impossible while Prone gives a -4 malus to Ranged attax. In non-Skald groups I do most of my damage from range (Full Attacks without needing to move to acquire targets) so am less interested in Prone effects.



Here's what it does. No moving and with high enough CMB no spells either. Once you get the Pin the creature is as good as dead.

Obv harder to get there on Lizard Pet, but not that much harder especially against casters with weak CMD. Dog/Wolf can Charge and Trip to do some damage (can't get Trip, Greater on pet for initial AoO), but then caster can stand up take the hit and still cast or move away in TB. Leopard pet now gets some Sneaks in addition to highest AC, and some of the others get new abilities as well. Nice that several picked up Scent.

If you like the Riding Dog Cavalier Order of the Paw is a fun one to try out. Challenge ends up adding a lot of damage if you're strugging with that early from the STR malus on Halfling. Adds some nice buffs to the Dog though and Danger Ward may be my favorite ability in the game. Don't sleep on Tactician either! High rest environment means it can be used a lot, and with a Buff manager resting is less of a pain.

 

[Desiderius]

The difficulty sliders don't really compensate in the way that the DLCs buff players. Especially DLC items which can completely revolutionize certain builds.

Ship also breaks the economy, and is significantly harder than other areas at that point in the game (also low rest with some annoying mechanics). Bad fit.

 

[Average Manatee]

Ship also breaks the economy, and is significantly harder than other areas at that point in the game (also low rest with some annoying mechanics). Bad fit.

Also gives a really blinged out store compared to the normal power level for chapters its available.

 

[MerchantKing]

The difficulty sliders don't really compensate in the way that the DLCs buff players. Especially DLC items which can completely revolutionize certain builds.

Ship also breaks the economy, and is significantly harder than other areas at that point in the game (also low rest with some annoying mechanics). Bad fit.

I think this is also ignoring that you get to pick up a +7 ring of protection in chapter 2 if you completed the stand-alone DLC. Just that can make a melee almost impossible to hit at that part of the game.

 

[Desiderius]

Completing that particular DLC should get you a disintinguished service medal.

 

[Rhobar121]

This DLC was so tiring that I couldn't even finish it.

 

[Desiderius]

Like how Drezen plays with the Corruption added back in. Makes the holy sites that reduce it relevant again.

Not sure how I feel about stuff being able to climb walls when engaged from above. Clunky implementation.

Reanimator Alch is interesting. Bombs do less damage but can summon undead with a nice boost and the Corpse Inspection ability lets XBow be more relevant to save Bombs. Will eventually Summon very relevant Undead.

Think I like Mythic Dazzling on Inciter more than Feints, at least until Final Feint is fixed. Icy Prison is less punishing now.

 

[Rhobar121]

Like how Drezen plays with the Corruption added back in. Makes the holy sites that reduce it relevant again.

Not sure how I feel about stuff being able to climb walls when engaged from above. Clunky implementation.

Reanimator Alch is interesting. Bombs do less damage but can summon undead with a nice boost and the Corpse Inspection ability lets XBow be more relevant to save Bombs. Will eventually Summon very relevant Undead.

Think I like Mythic Dazzling on Inciter more than Feints, at least until Final Feint is fixed. Icy Prison is less punishing now.

Summons would be more useful if they had at least rudimentary AI. Is it so hard to program the AI to attack the nearest target and not run halfway across the map, catching all the attacks along the way?

 

[scytheavatar]

So all finished now? Ready for a 3rd playthrough? So far Oracle angel, Vivi lich and then something else I guess.

Trickster Gnome Illusionist Arcanist. Use the Keen Gnome.

It's called Phantasmal Mage, it's pretty great. Shadow Spells offset the downside of Arcanist (you basically have a full spellbook at your disposal) and they all count as Illusion spells now.

Go Azata to get Favorable Magic and Will saves DC bonuses. Meta for Exploit pts.

Don't go Azata. Azata tell terrible jokes and in spite of being bards they don't have any good stories. Go trickster.

Both paths tell terrible jokes. The writing in the Trickster path is argubly worse than that of Azata. The best joke path is Lich with Pharasma as your god.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

In-game Ship is ghey. Skip it.

Yeah but it's one of the few challenging fights.

 

[processdaemon]

That weird moment when I agree with the turnip stinking gnome.

I swear to whatever powers that be that whoever wrote Azata also wrote Tumblr fanfiction. Or at the very least, used it as a base.

Yeah, I was originally going to go Azata in my first run and after about an hour I had to reload and go Aeon (and later Devil) to get the taste out of my mouth. Maybe it gets better but it makes an atrocious first impression.

 

[Cpt. Dallas]

That weird moment when I agree with the turnip stinking gnome.

I swear to whatever powers that be that whoever wrote Azata also wrote Tumblr fanfiction. Or at the very least, used it as a base.

Yeah, I was originally going to go Azata in my first run and after about an hour I had to reload and go Aeon (and later Devil) to get the taste out of my mouth. Maybe it gets better but it makes an atrocious first impression.

No, it gets worse.

 

[Desiderius]

In-game Ship is ghey. Skip it.

Yeah but it's one of the few challenging fights.

B team of devs makes things challenging in shitty ways. The balance tweaks suggest the A team is back for awhile.