Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Haplo]

Hm, could stack nicely with Powerful Stance Wrecking Blows.

 

[Desiderius]

Very tempted by Powerful Stance tbh.

Reckless with Inspire Ferocity is great on a Barb with a Ranged-heavy party, but not good with Skald since Rage gives melee-only bonus.

Lethal doesn't have great follow-up abilities and is Competence which ends up showing up a good bit from other sources.

Guarded isn't as good of a fit with the way Diva Style* plays out (which I'm liking since it gives a window for some casting) but the benefit of Guarded is having it up pre-combat to meet initial attacks and spells (Reflexive and Rolling Dodge very solid for that). Not as much needed as combat proceeds. I think I'll save it for Unfair-only.

Crippling debuff is a big plus to get some of what Guarded gives you while still using a Stance that adds punch.

* - feels kind of like a fixed Shatter Defenses. Not that sold on Strike and Advance. Maybe for a class with more bonus Feats. Would be nice if Final Feint were working properly.

 

[Desiderius]

Not sure where the "Come and get me" Rage Power comes from. Gives all opponents +4/+4 on attacks vs you but every attack generates an AoO. Pretty funny with Parry and Riposte.

Mobility Trickster without having to move!

 

[Haplo]

Wow, that's very cool!

And I guess a Skald can share it with a high defense character too...

 

[Average Manatee]

Yeah, I saw that too earlier. Not really sure how to think of it. Used normally it's kind of a win more ability. Either you're getting hit constantly and gonna get killed in a blink, or the enemies are very weak and you don't really need the extra damage to win the fight. But on the other hand, used with last stand its stupidly good, and last stand is already stupidly good.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah, I saw that too earlier. Not really sure how to think of it. Used normally it's kind of a win more ability. Either you're getting hit constantly and gonna get killed in a blink, or the enemies are very weak and you don't really need the extra damage to win the fight. But on the other hand, used with last stand its stupidly good, and last stand is already stupidly good.

There are a lot of AoE AC abilities and attacks are easier to debuff than AC so you can get your melee crew +20ish above most non-boss attacks. Ever Ready gives a substantial scaling bonus to AoOs.

This would help take out the trash without needing nukes if you have enough DR/ to ameliorate lucky crits. Duelist can Parry those!

I’ve had Duelist have trouble getting Riposte/Crane Riposte to trigger because mob AB is so low. Would be funny to go for 3 AoOs per enemy attack!

 

[Jermu]

1. azata
2. demon
3. angel
4. lich
5. gold dragon
6. aeon
7. devil
8. legend
9. trickster
10. swarm

 

[processdaemon]

5. gold dragon
6. aeon

This has to be ragebait, and if it is it worked.

 

[Average Manatee]

Early and late game mythic paths should be on separate lists to begin with, they aren't even close to comparable on amount of content or gameplay/plot implications.

 

[Desiderius]

HoMM piece just got playable for people under 40 (who may not have played HoMM):



This is on zero because I never lose troops. Not trivial to play that way.

There's finally a way to catch up from getting your army if not wiped at least severly decimated. Huge incline.

 

[Desiderius]

More adventures with Summons:



Bring some Magic Weapons next time you big oafs, I'm Incorporeal! Tick Swarm? What Blood were you planning to suck? They also have Smite Evil so can occasionally get in there.



Did Devas always have this? Can't tell if summons have been buffed or if Skald is helping them connect (or if fights are just lasting longer)



Alas not all the summon AI has been fixed. The old summon dump before rest almost crashed the game here.

 

[Nerevar]

HoMM piece just got playable for people under 40 (who may not have played HoMM):

View attachment 52154

This is on zero because I never lose troops. Not trivial to play that way.

There's finally a way to catch up from getting your army if not wiped at least severly decimated. Huge incline.

You can dismiss troops you don't need and use call for reserve and it will give you back the units you use. So turning the storyline guys into more marksmen.

 

[Desiderius]

HoMM piece just got playable for people under 40 (who may not have played HoMM):

View attachment 52154

This is on zero because I never lose troops. Not trivial to play that way.

There's finally a way to catch up from getting your army if not wiped at least severly decimated. Huge incline.

You can dismiss troops you don't need and use call for reserve and it will give you back the units you use. So turning the storyline guys into more marksmen.

(Marksmen are kind of a pain, don’t use, but thx for info)

 

[Mauman]

I tried giving a skald the "come at me" power earlier. While the skald had it during incite rage, the power wasn't shared to anyone else.

That being said I didn't test it thoroughly to see if this was just a graphical error.

[9]trickster

wat.

Also, Azata being number 1. Seriously this is a joke, right? Fucking Tumbrl slurping retards.

 

[Desiderius]

If you want a conventional P:K caster playthrough except able to beat saves Azata will hook you up, and I guess the Dragon seems godlike to a casual who’s played more P:K than Wrath.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Trickster 9, Legend 8, nigga what?

 

[scytheavatar]

Trickster 9, Legend 8, nigga what?

He's ranking based on personal enjoyment and he's probably right. Trickster has fun abilities but the worst writing of all the paths by a mile and is one of the worst ways to enjoy the game. Legend is gimmicky and rarely is the lvl 40 power worth sacrificing the mythic powers for. Especially when lvl 9/10 Mythic has so many broken shit.

 

[MjKorz]

The only good Trickster content are the 3 body horror transformations in chapter 4. Outside of that, the path is virtually nonexistent content/narrative wise.

 

[Desiderius]

Trickster 9, Legend 8, nigga what?

He's ranking based on personal enjoyment and he's probably right. Trickster has fun abilities but the worst writing of all the paths by a mile and is one of the worst ways to enjoy the game. Legend is gimmicky and rarely is the lvl 40 power worth sacrificing the mythic powers for. Especially when lvl 9/10 Mythic has so many broken shit.

Legend gets the benefit of full Mythic powers for two whole chapters before it even starts. People overlook how big a difference 20 extra lvls of BAB/saves is whatever the class (and all the extra rest) but 90% of ideas I see are missing the point:

Legend lets you pick up not just one but two Prestige classes without sacrificing class level progression in base class like it usually does. That’s… a huge difference. Three capstones etc

 

[MjKorz]

Trickster 9, Legend 8, nigga what?

He's ranking based on personal enjoyment and he's probably right. Trickster has fun abilities but the worst writing of all the paths by a mile and is one of the worst ways to enjoy the game. Legend is gimmicky and rarely is the lvl 40 power worth sacrificing the mythic powers for. Especially when lvl 9/10 Mythic has so many broken shit.

Legend gets the benefit of full Mythic powers for two whole chapters before it even starts. People overlook how big a difference 20 extra lvls of BAB/saves is whatever the class (and all the extra rest) but 90% of ideas I see are missing the point:

Legend lets you pick up not just one but two Prestige classes without sacrificing class level progression in base class like it usually does. That’s… a huge difference. Three capstones etc

BAB means nothing in a game where you can buff yourself to twice the AC of unfair bosses and initiate infinite attack loops for infinite damage on at least two mythic paths even after the Improved Critical feat nerf that previously allowed an extra method of initiating an infinite attack loop. Despite what many think, Legend is actually a relatively very weak mythic path in a game where Demon and Trickster deal infinite damage with Demon being able to do so right at the end of chapter 2.

Moreover, multiple mythic paths (Lich, Aeon, Trickster) offer an extremely underrated power - full dispel which is pretty much an instant death sentence to any boss since a huge chunk of their defensive and offensive power lies in their buffs. Here's a demonstration from my current martial Aeon run in progress:

Another thing to consider is the capability to cast spells as move action (Demon, Aeon) as well as obtain inherent spell persistency on all spells (Azata, Demon) - something that no amount of extra levels or capstones will allow you to do and ensuring that Legend will always remain a massively underpowered caster regardless of how you build him.

The reality of this game is that mythic synergies are more powerful than any non-mythic synergies you can think of.

 

[Average Manatee]

Moreover, multiple mythic paths (Lich, Aeon, Trickster) offer an extremely underrated power - full dispel which is pretty much an instant death sentence to any boss since a huge chunk of their defensive and offensive power lies in their buffs.

Angel merged kind of gets this too just due to inflated caster level using greater dispel. You might need to cast it twice for the most buffed enemies but the dispel is fairly reliable, especially if you gear for it. Arguably Azata too due to Aivu eventually being a level 32 or w/e character who also gets greater dispel, though you can't really buff her dispel further with equipment.

 

[MjKorz]

Moreover, multiple mythic paths (Lich, Aeon, Trickster) offer an extremely underrated power - full dispel which is pretty much an instant death sentence to any boss since a huge chunk of their defensive and offensive power lies in their buffs.

Angel merged kind of gets this too just due to inflated caster level using greater dispel. You might need to cast it twice for the most buffed enemies but the dispel is fairly reliable, especially if you gear for it. Arguably Azata too due to Aivu eventually being a level 32 or w/e character who also gets greater dispel, though you can't really buff her dispel further with equipment.

Angel's Greater Dispel will need to be cast multiple times on the most buffed bosses like you said, so the action economy is not the same. Single full dispel means you can either perform it as a swift action and then cast a spell or perform a full attack action (Lich's Corrupt Magic and Aeon's Zero State) or just turn it on as a swift action and proc it passively on hit (Aeon's Improved Aeon's Bane). Trickster performs a full dispel as a standard action via Improved Mythic Trick: Trickery and then can also cast a quickened spell. Angel loses both actions on doing a full dispel and thus can't do anything else.

Aivu's inflated CL was fixed a long while ago in a patch... unless Owlkeks somehow fucked it up again.

 

[Desiderius]

Trickster 9, Legend 8, nigga what?

He's ranking based on personal enjoyment and he's probably right. Trickster has fun abilities but the worst writing of all the paths by a mile and is one of the worst ways to enjoy the game. Legend is gimmicky and rarely is the lvl 40 power worth sacrificing the mythic powers for. Especially when lvl 9/10 Mythic has so many broken shit.

Legend gets the benefit of full Mythic powers for two whole chapters before it even starts. People overlook how big a difference 20 extra lvls of BAB/saves is whatever the class (and all the extra rest) but 90% of ideas I see are missing the point:

Legend lets you pick up not just one but two Prestige classes without sacrificing class level progression in base class like it usually does. That’s… a huge difference. Three capstones etc

BAB means nothing in a game where you can buff yourself to twice the AC of unfair bosses and initiate infinite attack loops for infinite damage on at least two mythic paths even after the Improved Critical feat nerf that previously allowed an extra method of initiating an infinite attack loop. Despite what many think, Legend is actually a relatively very weak mythic path in a game where Demon and Trickster deal infinite damage with Demon being able to do so right at the end of chapter 2.

Moreover, multiple mythic paths (Lich, Aeon, Trickster) offer an extremely underrated power - full dispel which is pretty much an instant death sentence to any boss since a huge chunk of their defensive and offensive power lies in their buffs. Here's a demonstration from my current martial Aeon run in progress:

Another thing to consider is the capability to cast spells as move action (Demon, Aeon) as well as obtain inherent spell persistency on all spells (Azata, Demon) - something that no amount of extra levels or capstones will allow you to do and ensuring that Legend will always remain a massively underpowered caster regardless of how you build him.

The reality of this game is that mythic synergies are more powerful than any non-mythic synergies you can think of.

The existence of multiple ways to beat the game does not make one more powerful than another.

Why do so many confuse sucking at something with that thing sucking? If Legend doesn't need all those buffs that means... Legend can beat things without them, freeing up party comp or simply being more resilient.

Dispel was nice on Aeon and Trickster as I pointed out at the time but now there's support in-game for Dispelling without needing Mythic abilities (and TTT fixes it to limit Dispels to one per four caster lvls since full Dispel breaks the game).

Finding the one weird trick to break the game is not the point of playing these games. There is no ladder. These aren't shitty phone games where you break it so you can get to the next one. You work with the devs to maintain some challenge.

 

[Average Manatee]

Angel loses both actions on doing a full dispel and thus can't do anything else.

Just use a quicken rod? Greater Dispel is even a level 6 spell, so you can use standard rods rather than greater ones.

Sure, you might need 2 casts which uses up your first turn. But as you said, a fully debuffed boss is basically a harmless cakewalk, so the rest of your team either kills it on turn 1 or you do on turn 2.

Areelu's DC check is 34, so CL 30 is practically a guaranteed shot and just a few CL boosts (or the glasses, for your first cast) makes it guaranteed. Though if you're exploiting the glasses then fully dispelling bosses is not really difficult with any party, even level 20 characters can do it.

 

[Desiderius]

Dispel seems to be bugged all or nothing. Is that a mod thing or are you getting it in vanilla?

Semi-rawdogging it rn with very limited Dispel capability on Hard (and no Mark, Touch of Good, or Hearth). Considering adding the Dispel package on Inciter since it gets Dispel, Greater at spell lvl 5.