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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

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Yeah, I saw that too earlier. Not really sure how to think of it. Used normally it's kind of a win more ability. Either you're getting hit constantly and gonna get killed in a blink, or the enemies are very weak and you don't really need the extra damage to win the fight. But on the other hand, used with last stand its stupidly good, and last stand is already stupidly good.
 
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Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah, I saw that too earlier. Not really sure how to think of it. Used normally it's kind of a win more ability. Either you're getting hit constantly and gonna get killed in a blink, or the enemies are very weak and you don't really need the extra damage to win the fight. But on the other hand, used with last stand its stupidly good, and last stand is already stupidly good.
There are a lot of AoE AC abilities and attacks are easier to debuff than AC so you can get your melee crew +20ish above most non-boss attacks. Ever Ready gives a substantial scaling bonus to AoOs.

This would help take out the trash without needing nukes if you have enough DR/ to ameliorate lucky crits. Duelist can Parry those!

I’ve had Duelist have trouble getting Riposte/Crane Riposte to trigger because mob AB is so low. Would be funny to go for 3 AoOs per enemy attack!
 
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Early and late game mythic paths should be on separate lists to begin with, they aren't even close to comparable on amount of content or gameplay/plot implications.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
HoMM piece just got playable for people under 40 (who may not have played HoMM):

Reserve Troops.jpg

This is on zero because I never lose troops. Not trivial to play that way.

There's finally a way to catch up from getting your army if not wiped at least severly decimated. Huge incline.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
More adventures with Summons:

Spirit Paladins vs Ash Giants and Ticks.jpg

Bring some Magic Weapons next time you big oafs, I'm Incorporeal! Tick Swarm? What Blood were you planning to suck? They also have Smite Evil so can occasionally get in there.

Deva Solid Blow.jpg

Did Devas always have this? Can't tell if summons have been buffed or if Skald is helping them connect (or if fights are just lasting longer)

Dispelling debuff on enemy.jpg

Alas not all the summon AI has been fixed. The old summon dump before rest almost crashed the game here.
 

Nerevar

N'wah
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Make the Codex Great Again! Pathfinder: Wrath
HoMM piece just got playable for people under 40 (who may not have played HoMM):

View attachment 52154

This is on zero because I never lose troops. Not trivial to play that way.

There's finally a way to catch up from getting your army if not wiped at least severly decimated. Huge incline.

You can dismiss troops you don't need and use call for reserve and it will give you back the units you use. So turning the storyline guys into more marksmen.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
HoMM piece just got playable for people under 40 (who may not have played HoMM):

View attachment 52154

This is on zero because I never lose troops. Not trivial to play that way.

There's finally a way to catch up from getting your army if not wiped at least severly decimated. Huge incline.

You can dismiss troops you don't need and use call for reserve and it will give you back the units you use. So turning the storyline guys into more marksmen.

(Marksmen are kind of a pain, don’t use, but thx for info)
 

Mauman

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Jun 30, 2021
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I tried giving a skald the "come at me" power earlier. While the skald had it during incite rage, the power wasn't shared to anyone else.

That being said I didn't test it thoroughly to see if this was just a graphical error.

[9]trickster

wat.

Also, Azata being number 1. Seriously this is a joke, right? Fucking Tumbrl slurping retards.
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
If you want a conventional P:K caster playthrough except able to beat saves Azata will hook you up, and I guess the Dragon seems godlike to a casual who’s played more P:K than Wrath.
 

scytheavatar

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Trickster 9, Legend 8, nigga what?

He's ranking based on personal enjoyment and he's probably right. Trickster has fun abilities but the worst writing of all the paths by a mile and is one of the worst ways to enjoy the game. Legend is gimmicky and rarely is the lvl 40 power worth sacrificing the mythic powers for. Especially when lvl 9/10 Mythic has so many broken shit.
 

MjKorz

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The only good Trickster content are the 3 body horror transformations in chapter 4. Outside of that, the path is virtually nonexistent content/narrative wise.
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Trickster 9, Legend 8, nigga what?

He's ranking based on personal enjoyment and he's probably right. Trickster has fun abilities but the worst writing of all the paths by a mile and is one of the worst ways to enjoy the game. Legend is gimmicky and rarely is the lvl 40 power worth sacrificing the mythic powers for. Especially when lvl 9/10 Mythic has so many broken shit.

Legend gets the benefit of full Mythic powers for two whole chapters before it even starts. People overlook how big a difference 20 extra lvls of BAB/saves is whatever the class (and all the extra rest) but 90% of ideas I see are missing the point:

Legend lets you pick up not just one but two Prestige classes without sacrificing class level progression in base class like it usually does. That’s… a huge difference. Three capstones etc
 

MjKorz

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Trickster 9, Legend 8, nigga what?

He's ranking based on personal enjoyment and he's probably right. Trickster has fun abilities but the worst writing of all the paths by a mile and is one of the worst ways to enjoy the game. Legend is gimmicky and rarely is the lvl 40 power worth sacrificing the mythic powers for. Especially when lvl 9/10 Mythic has so many broken shit.

Legend gets the benefit of full Mythic powers for two whole chapters before it even starts. People overlook how big a difference 20 extra lvls of BAB/saves is whatever the class (and all the extra rest) but 90% of ideas I see are missing the point:

Legend lets you pick up not just one but two Prestige classes without sacrificing class level progression in base class like it usually does. That’s… a huge difference. Three capstones etc
BAB means nothing in a game where you can buff yourself to twice the AC of unfair bosses and initiate infinite attack loops for infinite damage on at least two mythic paths even after the Improved Critical feat nerf that previously allowed an extra method of initiating an infinite attack loop. Despite what many think, Legend is actually a relatively very weak mythic path in a game where Demon and Trickster deal infinite damage with Demon being able to do so right at the end of chapter 2.

Moreover, multiple mythic paths (Lich, Aeon, Trickster) offer an extremely underrated power - full dispel which is pretty much an instant death sentence to any boss since a huge chunk of their defensive and offensive power lies in their buffs. Here's a demonstration from my current martial Aeon run in progress:

eavw2m.jpg


Another thing to consider is the capability to cast spells as move action (Demon, Aeon) as well as obtain inherent spell persistency on all spells (Azata, Demon) - something that no amount of extra levels or capstones will allow you to do and ensuring that Legend will always remain a massively underpowered caster regardless of how you build him.

The reality of this game is that mythic synergies are more powerful than any non-mythic synergies you can think of.
 
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Moreover, multiple mythic paths (Lich, Aeon, Trickster) offer an extremely underrated power - full dispel which is pretty much an instant death sentence to any boss since a huge chunk of their defensive and offensive power lies in their buffs.
Angel merged kind of gets this too just due to inflated caster level using greater dispel. You might need to cast it twice for the most buffed enemies but the dispel is fairly reliable, especially if you gear for it. Arguably Azata too due to Aivu eventually being a level 32 or w/e character who also gets greater dispel, though you can't really buff her dispel further with equipment.
 

MjKorz

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Moreover, multiple mythic paths (Lich, Aeon, Trickster) offer an extremely underrated power - full dispel which is pretty much an instant death sentence to any boss since a huge chunk of their defensive and offensive power lies in their buffs.
Angel merged kind of gets this too just due to inflated caster level using greater dispel. You might need to cast it twice for the most buffed enemies but the dispel is fairly reliable, especially if you gear for it. Arguably Azata too due to Aivu eventually being a level 32 or w/e character who also gets greater dispel, though you can't really buff her dispel further with equipment.
Angel's Greater Dispel will need to be cast multiple times on the most buffed bosses like you said, so the action economy is not the same. Single full dispel means you can either perform it as a swift action and then cast a spell or perform a full attack action (Lich's Corrupt Magic and Aeon's Zero State) or just turn it on as a swift action and proc it passively on hit (Aeon's Improved Aeon's Bane). Trickster performs a full dispel as a standard action via Improved Mythic Trick: Trickery and then can also cast a quickened spell. Angel loses both actions on doing a full dispel and thus can't do anything else.

Aivu's inflated CL was fixed a long while ago in a patch... unless Owlkeks somehow fucked it up again.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Trickster 9, Legend 8, nigga what?

He's ranking based on personal enjoyment and he's probably right. Trickster has fun abilities but the worst writing of all the paths by a mile and is one of the worst ways to enjoy the game. Legend is gimmicky and rarely is the lvl 40 power worth sacrificing the mythic powers for. Especially when lvl 9/10 Mythic has so many broken shit.

Legend gets the benefit of full Mythic powers for two whole chapters before it even starts. People overlook how big a difference 20 extra lvls of BAB/saves is whatever the class (and all the extra rest) but 90% of ideas I see are missing the point:

Legend lets you pick up not just one but two Prestige classes without sacrificing class level progression in base class like it usually does. That’s… a huge difference. Three capstones etc
BAB means nothing in a game where you can buff yourself to twice the AC of unfair bosses and initiate infinite attack loops for infinite damage on at least two mythic paths even after the Improved Critical feat nerf that previously allowed an extra method of initiating an infinite attack loop. Despite what many think, Legend is actually a relatively very weak mythic path in a game where Demon and Trickster deal infinite damage with Demon being able to do so right at the end of chapter 2.

Moreover, multiple mythic paths (Lich, Aeon, Trickster) offer an extremely underrated power - full dispel which is pretty much an instant death sentence to any boss since a huge chunk of their defensive and offensive power lies in their buffs. Here's a demonstration from my current martial Aeon run in progress:

eavw2m.jpg


Another thing to consider is the capability to cast spells as move action (Demon, Aeon) as well as obtain inherent spell persistency on all spells (Azata, Demon) - something that no amount of extra levels or capstones will allow you to do and ensuring that Legend will always remain a massively underpowered caster regardless of how you build him.

The reality of this game is that mythic synergies are more powerful than any non-mythic synergies you can think of.
The existence of multiple ways to beat the game does not make one more powerful than another.

Why do so many confuse sucking at something with that thing sucking? If Legend doesn't need all those buffs that means... Legend can beat things without them, freeing up party comp or simply being more resilient.

Dispel was nice on Aeon and Trickster as I pointed out at the time but now there's support in-game for Dispelling without needing Mythic abilities (and TTT fixes it to limit Dispels to one per four caster lvls since full Dispel breaks the game).

Finding the one weird trick to break the game is not the point of playing these games. There is no ladder. These aren't shitty phone games where you break it so you can get to the next one. You work with the devs to maintain some challenge.
 
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Angel loses both actions on doing a full dispel and thus can't do anything else.
Just use a quicken rod? Greater Dispel is even a level 6 spell, so you can use standard rods rather than greater ones.

Sure, you might need 2 casts which uses up your first turn. But as you said, a fully debuffed boss is basically a harmless cakewalk, so the rest of your team either kills it on turn 1 or you do on turn 2.

SDOiGmB.png


Areelu's DC check is 34, so CL 30 is practically a guaranteed shot and just a few CL boosts (or the glasses, for your first cast) makes it guaranteed. Though if you're exploiting the glasses then fully dispelling bosses is not really difficult with any party, even level 20 characters can do it.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Dispel seems to be bugged all or nothing. Is that a mod thing or are you getting it in vanilla?

Semi-rawdogging it rn with very limited Dispel capability on Hard (and no Mark, Touch of Good, or Hearth). Considering adding the Dispel package on Inciter since it gets Dispel, Greater at spell lvl 5.
 

MjKorz

Educated
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Messages
530
Trickster 9, Legend 8, nigga what?

He's ranking based on personal enjoyment and he's probably right. Trickster has fun abilities but the worst writing of all the paths by a mile and is one of the worst ways to enjoy the game. Legend is gimmicky and rarely is the lvl 40 power worth sacrificing the mythic powers for. Especially when lvl 9/10 Mythic has so many broken shit.

Legend gets the benefit of full Mythic powers for two whole chapters before it even starts. People overlook how big a difference 20 extra lvls of BAB/saves is whatever the class (and all the extra rest) but 90% of ideas I see are missing the point:

Legend lets you pick up not just one but two Prestige classes without sacrificing class level progression in base class like it usually does. That’s… a huge difference. Three capstones etc
BAB means nothing in a game where you can buff yourself to twice the AC of unfair bosses and initiate infinite attack loops for infinite damage on at least two mythic paths even after the Improved Critical feat nerf that previously allowed an extra method of initiating an infinite attack loop. Despite what many think, Legend is actually a relatively very weak mythic path in a game where Demon and Trickster deal infinite damage with Demon being able to do so right at the end of chapter 2.

Moreover, multiple mythic paths (Lich, Aeon, Trickster) offer an extremely underrated power - full dispel which is pretty much an instant death sentence to any boss since a huge chunk of their defensive and offensive power lies in their buffs. Here's a demonstration from my current martial Aeon run in progress:

eavw2m.jpg


Another thing to consider is the capability to cast spells as move action (Demon, Aeon) as well as obtain inherent spell persistency on all spells (Azata, Demon) - something that no amount of extra levels or capstones will allow you to do and ensuring that Legend will always remain a massively underpowered caster regardless of how you build him.

The reality of this game is that mythic synergies are more powerful than any non-mythic synergies you can think of.
The existence of multiple ways to beat the game does not make one more powerful than another.

Why do so many confuse sucking at something with that thing sucking? If Legend doesn't need all those buffs that means... Legend can beat things without them, freeing up party comp or simply being more resilient.

Dispel was nice on Aeon and Trickster as I pointed out at the time but now there's support in-game for Dispelling without needing Mythic abilities (and TTT fixes it to limit Dispels to one per four caster lvls since full Dispel breaks the game).

Finding the one weird trick to break the game is not the point of playing these games. There is no ladder. These aren't shitty phone games where you break it so you can get to the next one.
There is nothing Legend can do that other mythic paths cannot do better. Absolutely nothing: melee damage, DC casting, ray casting, AoE damage casting - other mythic paths do all of this much better. Legend offers you flexibility and variety, but it does not achieve the peak performance in any area that can be achieved only through appropriate mythic synergies.

Angel loses both actions on doing a full dispel and thus can't do anything else.
Just use a quicken rod? Greater Dispel is even a level 6 spell, so you can use standard rods rather than greater ones.

Sure, you might need 2 casts which uses up your first turn. But as you said, a fully debuffed boss is basically a harmless cakewalk, so the rest of your team either kills it on turn 1 or you do on turn 2.

SDOiGmB.png


Areelu's DC check is 34, so CL 30 is practically a guaranteed shot and just a few CL boosts (or the glasses, for your first cast) makes it guaranteed. Though if you're exploiting the glasses then fully dispelling bosses is not really difficult with any party, even level 20 characters can do it.
Using a rod of quicken just turns a spell into a swift action. Since Angel cannot cast spells as move action, he needs to cast the second dispel as a standard action, leaving him no actions to actually attack with. Proper dispeller mythics (Aeon, Lich, Trickster) will retain one standard (Lich, Aeon) or swift (Trickster) action and can use it to instantly kill/disable the dispelled boss on their own turn.
 
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Dispel seems to be bugged all or nothing. Is that a mod thing or are you getting it in vanilla?

I have toybox but nothing that would change things AFAIK. I thought Owlcat fixed it to roll on each spell, but either they didn't or the bug snuck back in.

Using a rod of quicken just turns a spell into a swift action. Since Angel cannot cast spells as move action, he needs to cast the second dispel as a standard action, leaving him no actions to actually attack with. Proper dispeller mythics (Aeon, Lich, Trickster) will retain one standard (Lich, Aeon) or swift (Trickster) action and can use it to instantly kill/disable the dispelled boss on their own turn.
Point is, you can still pretty easily dispel bosses. Waiting for turn 2 to kill them isn't a big deal, worst case you have last stand.
 

MjKorz

Educated
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Messages
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Dispel seems to be bugged all or nothing. Is that a mod thing or are you getting it in vanilla?

I have toybox but nothing that would change things AFAIK. I thought Owlcat fixed it to roll on each spell, but either they didn't or the bug snuck back in.

Using a rod of quicken just turns a spell into a swift action. Since Angel cannot cast spells as move action, he needs to cast the second dispel as a standard action, leaving him no actions to actually attack with. Proper dispeller mythics (Aeon, Lich, Trickster) will retain one standard (Lich, Aeon) or swift (Trickster) action and can use it to instantly kill/disable the dispelled boss on their own turn.
Point is, you can still pretty easily dispel bosses. Waiting for turn 2 to kill them isn't a big deal, worst case you have last stand.
It's true, you can dispel, even demon can dispel reasonably well:
uc7ilz.jpg


But as I said: the action economy is not the same, there's a difference between needing to wait for your second turn or your party member's turn and simply delivering a quick one-two dispel-kill/disable on the same turn. There are levels to this.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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Specifically, switching Trickster into Legend is a pretty cool path, because obv all your improved items are still there from the whole party, and you can also reset all of your guys bypassing lvl req for perks. So a lot of Trickster power is still there even after you flip into Legend.
 

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