Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Cohesion]

Update:

TTT straight-up nerfed Deadly Fascination on Mantis Zealot lol

Also the Fused spell DCs were not calculating correctly, now fixed. Makes sense since otherwise School FEats would do nothing on Fused Spells. Interesting! Will test in caster run to follow.

Fuck your TTT - you are playing another game. You could just use cheat engine, lol.

 

[Desiderius]

TTT nerfs as much as it adds. I'm not cheating at all.

Dark Codex leans toward the cheat engine side so I have 80% of it turned off.

Apologies for being misleading on the Fused spell DC stuff. It was still pretty crazy what it could do even with the DCs not working.

 

[the mole]

I was waiting until they fixed my magus to play, and install toybox and the mods like dark coodex, how do I know owlcat won't patch the game again tomorrow

 

[Mauman]

Force ring is Free Action.

Not anymore

As for Mad Dog, yeah sure....except such a character would be a perfect choice for now using the force ring instead

Other characters can use it on you.

As I said, most characters I have swift actions already considered for. A barbarian I wouldn't, but most I would. If I had no other character besides that barbarian with a regularly available swift action, I'd give him the ring and forget the mediocre feat.

 

[Desiderius]

I was waiting until they fixed my magus to play, and install toybox and the mods like dark coodex, how do I know owlcat won't patch the game again tomorrow

Modfinder auto-updates them for you. So far the mod-makers have been keeping up with the patches.

 

[ga♥]

TTT nerfs as much as it adds. I'm not cheating at all.

Dark Codex leans toward the cheat engine side so I have 80% of it turned off.

Apologies for being misleading on the Fused spell DC stuff. It was still pretty crazy what it could do even with the DCs not working.

Doesn't it have stupid additions like time stop and stuff like that? Obviously only for the player, not NPC enemies.

Even if it does not, I saw a stream of someone using it but maybe it was other mods adding the ridicolous things, it's still a different game.

 

[Desiderius]

Why are you a phaggot?

Time Stop? I'm not going to the Ship because it breaks the game, why would I do that? Most broken thing I'm doing is Encouraging Meta on Bless/Good Hope and getting the trade-off Feats like Combat Expertise for free.

In exchange I have to actually flank shit (or pay multiple Feats to get Vanilla functioning) and my Mounted guys (including MC) can't Full Attack on turns where Mount moves like you facerolling retards can until I have 14 ranks in Mobility and spend two more Feats.

 

[TwoEdge]

TTT nerfs as much as it adds. I'm not cheating at all.

Dark Codex leans toward the cheat engine side so I have 80% of it turned off.

Apologies for being misleading on the Fused spell DC stuff. It was still pretty crazy what it could do even with the DCs not working.

Doesn't it have stupid additions like time stop and stuff like that? Obviously only for the player, not NPC enemies.

Even if it does not, I saw a stream of someone using it but maybe it was other mods adding the ridicolous things, it's still a different game.

It's modular, so you use it for whatever you like, if a feature's broken or you don't like it you can disable it. It was invaluable for armor builds before Owlcat implemented their own scaling solutions. That said, its purpose is more to get it in line with the tabletop, than to increase your power. What you're describing sounds more like Dark Codex, another mod entirely.

 

[ga♥]

Im not saying you are using the breaking stuff, and I dont care if you do, its your game you play how you want.

I am discussing TTT since you claimed it nerfs as it adds... does it have the ridicolous spells or not? Also, any change is applied to enemies too or just players?

 

[TwoEdge]

Im not saying you are using the breaking stuff, and I dont care if you do, its your game you play how you want.

I am discussing TTT since you claimed it nerfs as it adds... does it have the ridicolous spells or not? Also, any change is applied to enemies too or just players?

• Spells
  • Cloak of Winds
    • You shroud a creature in a whirling screen of strong, howling wind. Ranged attack rolls against the subject take a -4 penalty.
  • Long Arm
    • Your arms temporarily grow in length, increasing your reach with those limbs by 5 feet.
  • Mage's Disjunction
    • All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are unraveled and destroyed completely (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item for the duration of this spell.
  • Shadow Enchantment
    • You use material from the Shadow Plane to cast a quasi-real, illusory version of a psychic, sorcerer, or wizard enchantment spell of 2nd level or lower. Spells that deal damage or have other effects work as normal unless the affected creature succeeds at a Will save. If the disbelieved enchantment spell has a damaging effect, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. If recognized as a shadow enchantment, a damaging spell deals only one-fifth (20%) the normal amount of damage. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow enchantment's level (3rd) rather than the spell's normal level.
  • Shadow Enchantment Greater
    • This spell functions like shadow enchantment, except that it enables you to create partially real, illusory versions of psychic, sorcerer, or wizard enchantment spells of 5th level or lower. If the spell is recognized as a greater shadow enchantment, it's only three-fifths (60%) as effective.
  • Stunning Barrier Greater
    • This spell functions as stunning barrier, except it provides a +2 bonus to AC and on saving throws and it is not discharged until it has stunned a number of creatures equal to your caster level.

Whatever it modified goes both ways, players and enemies. The game's AI is not sophisticated enough, however, so I doubt it's capable of using any of them (not that I think it would matter, they're not very powerful spells).

 

[ga♥]

• Mage's Disjunction
  • All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are unraveled and destroyed completely (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item for the duration of this spell.

Now I remeber, it was not time stop it was this spell! The streamer used it against Mephisoteles after struggling to kill him... how is that "it adds as it nerfs" Desiderius

And no, enemies had no way to counter it or cast it themselves... how is that not powerful TwoEdge ? As you say the AI is already subpar and its all about prebuff for enemies....

Take for example SCS for Bg1/Bg2, ALL changes are applied to enemies too.

 

[TwoEdge]

• Mage's Disjunction
  • All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are unraveled and destroyed completely (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item for the duration of this spell.

Now I remeber, it was not time stop it was this spell! The streamer used it against Mephisoteles after struggling to kill him... how is that "it adds as it nerfs" Desiderius

And no, enemies had no way to counter it or cast it themselves... how is that not powerful TwoEdge? As you say the AI is already subpar and its all about prebuff for enemies....

Take for example SCS for Bg1/Bg2, ALL changes are applied to enemies too.

Yeah, you're right about that. This effectively makes mages the very best at dispelling and even shutting down some specific enemies. I had never given this spell proper attention before. I'll probably disable it myself/ignore it, this seems way too powerful given how the cRPG is balanced.

Owlcat really could have designed the AI better in their games, they could be so much more interesting on a level playing field.

 

[Yosharian]

Meph is so fucking easy. Well, for an Aeon anyway. Maybe it's harder for looney tunes path

 

[Mauman]

Meph is so fucking easy. Well, for an Aeon anyway. Maybe it's harder for looney tunes path

Probably easier. As much as I despise the narrative of the Tumblr path, the powers look strong mechanically.

 

[Yosharian]

They were nerfed to be fair

 

[Desiderius]

• Mage's Disjunction
  • All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are unraveled and destroyed completely (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item for the duration of this spell.

Now I remeber, it was not time stop it was this spell! The streamer used it against Mephisoteles after struggling to kill him... how is that "it adds as it nerfs" Desiderius

And no, enemies had no way to counter it or cast it themselves... how is that not powerful TwoEdge ? As you say the AI is already subpar and its all about prebuff for enemies....

Take for example SCS for Bg1/Bg2, ALL changes are applied to enemies too.

It's a ninth-level spell. Never cast it.

If you can beat Will Saves with ninth-level spells you can already Weird the game.

EDIT: It's a no-save Dispel but it isn't enemies-only and it is a persistent 40ft radius Field.

I guess you can try to Shoot him to death but Meph has some pretty nasty spells of his own that this wouldn't stop. Will save is for items.

Not playing any full casters right now so not something I'm likely to encounter. Long Arm is bad on Daeran because it keeps him out of Shroud range. Cloak of Winds is a little narrow and unneccesary with Dark Veils and Rolling Dodge.

Stunning, Greater is fine but the +2s don't stack (Deflection/Resistance) and one stun is enough if you're fighting something vulnerable to it. 3rd level spell slots are crowded.

 

[Desiderius]

There are enough items in-game right now in vanilla to consistently Dispel anything with a dedicated Dispeller. I'd want to have one of those (or a consistent way to ignore buffs) long before ninth-level spells show up.

Strongest ability I'm using rn is Eldritch Breach (advantage on Spell Pen/Dispel checks) but that's a Mythic so should be strong and of course that crowds out the usual favorites like Abundant/Enduring and Archmage Armor.

 

[TwoEdge]

The thing is, it's an AoE dispel that dispels everything, including item effects (although temporarily). Also, destructive dispel. So you initiate combat (by design, you open most encounters), dispel every single effect on every enemy in the area, plus they're all stunned. You have a good point about it being inferior to weird, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, there are foes immune to weird, I don't think there are foes immune to dispelling and most of them will suffer from dispel, and thus the stun, given the prevalence of buffs here.

However, what bothers me is why Vek17 implemented the spell like this? In tabletop, it's mandatory, because of time stop and anti-magic fields, but counterspelling is a thing, and you don't deactivate artifacts, you destroy them, so you have to consider that. It seems counter to his philosophy for the mod.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Meph is so fucking easy. Well, for an Aeon anyway. Maybe it's harder for looney tunes path

Probably easier. As much as I despise the narrative of the Tumblr path, the powers look strong mechanically.

Azata should be harder because I didn't had any time to buff up before it. But back then he was a total pushover and died right after the charge.

 

[Yosharian]

Meph is so fucking easy. Well, for an Aeon anyway. Maybe it's harder for looney tunes path

Probably easier. As much as I despise the narrative of the Tumblr path, the powers look strong mechanically.

Azata should be harder because I didn't had any time to buff up before it. But back then he was a total pushover and died right after the charge.

Aeon doesn't have time to buff either. But, I managed to buff anyway. The nearest instanced area to the boss fight was less than 24H travel time from the boss fight instance. So I buffed everything I could that lasted 24H (mythic ability on my BFT & other buffers ftw) then travelled to the boss and had like, I dunno 12 minutes left on my buffs.

His AI wasn't too smart, for example he nuked the shit out of my mount, leaving me on the floor right next to him....then ignored me and went after my tank.

Not that attacking me would have saved him since I had Last Stand, but anyway. Still funny. I 1-rounded him after that.

 

[Daidre]

Aeon doesn't have time to buff either. But, I managed to buff anyway.

Afaik, Aeon has two variants of encounter with Meph - you either agree to meet with him at marked location or he will catch you en route on the way to Kenabres. In my version, with agreement, I had prebuffed before talking to him without any issues.
I also had no issues prebuffing when playing Azata - you need to approach him and free crusaders close enough to trigger the scene.

 

[Yosharian]

Aeon doesn't have time to buff either. But, I managed to buff anyway.

Afaik, Aeon has two variants of encounter with Meph - you either agree to meet with him at marked location or he will catch you en route on the way to Kenabres. In my version, with agreement, I had prebuffed before talking to him without any issues.
I also had no issues prebuffing when playing Azata - you need to approach him and free crusaders close enough to trigger the scene.

Hmm. Well I definitely remember not being able to buff for this fight, I was drawn immediately into dialogue so I had to reload

I probably told him to get fucked in the previous conversation

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I don't always get ambushed, but when I do, it's because I'm 11111111'ing every conversation.

 

[Desiderius]

The thing is, it's an AoE dispel that dispels everything, including item effects (although temporarily). Also, destructive dispel. So you initiate combat (by design, you open most encounters), dispel every single effect on every enemy in the area, plus they're all stunned. You have a good point about it being inferior to weird, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, there are foes immune to weird, I don't think there are foes immune to dispelling and most of them will suffer from dispel, and thus the stun, given the prevalence of buffs here.

However, what bothers me is why Vek17 implemented the spell like this? In tabletop, it's mandatory, because of time stop and anti-magic fields, but counterspelling is a thing, and you don't deactivate artifacts, you destroy them, so you have to consider that. It seems counter to his philosophy for the mod.

Depends how you handle the quest progression IIRC.

My Aeon Vanguard Unfair run got it wrong, he ambushed and roasted half the team before it could act. First close fight in several levels and got wiped.

 

[Desiderius]

The thing is, it's an AoE dispel that dispels everything, including item effects (although temporarily). Also, destructive dispel. So you initiate combat (by design, you open most encounters), dispel every single effect on every enemy in the area, plus they're all stunned. You have a good point about it being inferior to weird, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, there are foes immune to weird, I don't think there are foes immune to dispelling and most of them will suffer from dispel, and thus the stun, given the prevalence of buffs here.

However, what bothers me is why Vek17 implemented the spell like this? In tabletop, it's mandatory, because of time stop and anti-magic fields, but counterspelling is a thing, and you don't deactivate artifacts, you destroy them, so you have to consider that. It seems counter to his philosophy for the mod.

The stun on Destructive Dispel has a Fort save (Weird doesn't BTW if they fail to disbelieve they're still stunned on made Fort save) and the spell doesn't read as if it would trigger Dispel effects anyway. The artifact deactivation has a save.

Far as I'm concerned it's a Ninth-level spell. You've paid the cost, you should be the boss. But it's less trivial than it looks I think.