Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[IHaveHugeNick]

Lann at the bottom because he finds him annoying with no mention of combat usefulness, Seelah is ranked high because she's "iconic," Daeran is ranked low despite being the best healer in the game. That guy is a fucking tool.

I meant the archetypes, didn't watch the other one.

 

[Jermu]

that fat fuck just copied this list pretty much

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/guides/Class_Rankings

 

[Average Manatee]

I don't think so. Didn't watch it all but he recommends reanimator for lich (it's still bad) and says vivi is only for dips. He came up with his own bad opinions

 

[Desiderius]

Tier lists that combine "how much I like it" with power ranking are obviously shit and defeats the purpose of being a tier list. It's the kind of thing a woman would do

Tbf tier lists are fit for dudes too old to learn the game themselves. They were better when it was some autist on gamefaqs who knew his shit instead of the clickbaitors.

 

[Desiderius]

I don't think so. Didn't watch it all but he recommends reanimator for lich (it's still bad) and says vivi is only for dips. He came up with his own bad opinions

What's bad, Reanimator?

 

[Average Manatee]

What's bad, Reanimator?

I mean, is it a totally fine class to play with? It's not weaker than Alchemist or anything, so no. It's fine. You lose some incredibly irrelevant bomb stuff, who cares.

Is it a class that has great synergy with, and in fact the "best" class to use with Lich like he says? Hard no. Giving a very minor stat boost to summons (which are primarily useless meatshields) is not some huge bonus to lich. You have to win a battle first to use them and either you're raising useless crap to fight something harder or you beat something hard and don't need help for the rest of the easy fights in an area.

I get that there is a great thematic argument for reanimator lich but that's why mixing a power ranking with a feelings ranking is a dumb idea.

 

[Average Manatee]

Uhh, what is this? When was this added?

I find it hard to believe that something this powerful slipped in without being noticed.

EDIT: False Alarm, it's bugged to do only 1 damage:

Good Job Owlcat!

 

[Mauman]

Uhh, what is this? When was this added?

I find it hard to believe that something this powerful slipped in without being noticed.

Eh....the whole "not multiplied on a critical hit" part is a bit of a turn off.

edit - also, swift action and I swear I'm always starving for those with every character.

 

[Average Manatee]

It's a feat that gives (or should give, when fixed) like +30 damage per hit by the late game if you're a twohander. At that power level I couldn't care less that it's not multiplied on crits, if there were feats that gave +10 damage with no drawback I'd take them every time, and you'd need to crit 100% of the time with a x3 multiplier for that to equal a flat +30. Barbs/bloodragers aren't really a class starved for swift actions so its not a problem.

Sadly it IS a feat though, not a rage power, meaning I'm 99% sure that Skalds can't share it with their team. That would be absurdly busted. If it worked.

EDIT: also, how do you use Power Attack with thrown weapons? lmao.

 

[Yosharian]

Uhh, what is this? When was this added?

I find it hard to believe that something this powerful slipped in without being noticed.

Eh....the whole "not multiplied on a critical hit" part is a bit of a turn off.

edit - also, swift action and I swear I'm always starving for those with every character.

Yeah it's ass on most optimised builds

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Uhh, what is this? When was this added?

I find it hard to believe that something this powerful slipped in without being noticed.

Eh....the whole "not multiplied on a critical hit" part is a bit of a turn off.

edit - also, swift action and I swear I'm always starving for those with every character.

Yeah it's ass on most optimised builds

Ok but real cool if you want to role play as Hulk

 

[Yosharian]

Uhh, what is this? When was this added?

I find it hard to believe that something this powerful slipped in without being noticed.

Eh....the whole "not multiplied on a critical hit" part is a bit of a turn off.

edit - also, swift action and I swear I'm always starving for those with every character.

Yeah it's ass on most optimised builds

Ok but real cool if you want to role play as Hulk

Yeah it's good on a pure Barb or something that's not optimised at all

 

[Average Manatee]

I mean I'd take it even on a Skald at like level 18 or 20 when you're out of other shit. 30 damage is stupid to pass up.

Also Mad Dog is an absolutely competent class with one of the best sets of pet bonuses.

 

[Desiderius]

What's bad, Reanimator?

I mean, is it a totally fine class to play with? It's not weaker than Alchemist or anything, so no. It's fine. You lose some incredibly irrelevant bomb stuff, who cares.

Is it a class that has great synergy with, and in fact the "best" class to use with Lich like he says? Hard no. Giving a very minor stat boost to summons (which are primarily useless meatshields) is not some huge bonus to lich. You have to win a battle first to use them and either you're raising useless crap to fight something harder or you beat something hard and don't need help for the rest of the easy fights in an area.

I get that there is a great thematic argument for reanimator lich but that's why mixing a power ranking with a feelings ranking is a dumb idea.

Merging breaks the game. If that’s out it’s a decent combo both RP and mechanics wise. The bonus isn’t irrelevant. Akin to giving Undead the Master Shapeshifter Mythic.

Class itself very solid with Skald in team. More than meatshields! Sorcerous Reflex Summon gives Alch a nice Swift it’s usually missing. Extended Create Undead good for filling usually poor 5th level slots.

Depending on fight Corpse Inspector is relatively easy to turn on to bridge gap between 3/4 and full BAB if you have a Bow you want to use and Transformation is in that Spellbook if you want to really go off.

 

[Average Manatee]

Merging breaks the game. If that’s out it’s a decent combo both RP and mechanics wise. The bonus isn’t irrelevant. Akin to giving Undead the Master Shapeshifter Mythic.

This would be relevant if bonuses to raising undead was as useful as bonuses your own player characters, which it isn't. And you can't even have them for some of the harder fights in the game since you can't take them across level transitions.

Class itself very solid with Skald in team. More than meatshields! Sorcerous Reflex Summon gives Alch a nice Swift it’s usually missing. Extended Create Undead good for filling usually poor 5th level slots.

Spamming a million undead to act as meatshields is one of the most boring and tiresome ways to play the game, watching them take forever to take their turns. And your bonuses to undead don't help them, they are still weak, will not hit things, will not have the HP to avoid being wiped out by the first thing that targets them.

Depending on fight Corpse Inspector is relatively easy to turn on to bridge gap between 3/4 and full BAB if you have a Bow you want to use and Transformation is in that Spellbook if you want to really go off.

The gap between 3/4ths and full BAB has little to do with the AB itself, since you're gonna have like +60 bonuses minimum and +55 vs. +60 is usually a wash. What it matters in is your power attack bonus damage, which nothing really fixes.

 

[Desiderius]

Having problems with second person again I see. Half my damage rn coming from Summons.

Don’t need to fill the screen with them. High lvl Reanimator summons are one at a time.

 

[Average Manatee]

If half your damage comes from summons and you're using one at a time then the rest of the characters in the group are pathetic.

 

[Mauman]

I mean I'd take it even on a Skald at like level 18 or 20 when you're out of other shit. 30 damage is stupid to pass up.

Also Mad Dog is an absolutely competent class with one of the best sets of pet bonuses.

Eh....Even if a Skald could take it it'd still interfere with swift action economy at least for the first turn. Besides, once it's fixed, a Skald is probably going to want to activate and deactivate incite rage every turn so to get that free final feint in.

As for Mad Dog, yeah sure....except such a character would be a perfect choice for now using the force ring instead. Arguably just as good and doesn't require a feat.

edit - I like how Owlcat didn't even bother putting in the normal requirement of spending 3 rounds of rage to activate this ability. Probably due to the fact that if you're playing a barbarian you're almost certainly going to take endless rage.

 

[the mole]

tier lists are really just to get people who have never played the game hyped for it

 

[Desiderius]

I mean I'd take it even on a Skald at like level 18 or 20 when you're out of other shit. 30 damage is stupid to pass up.

Also Mad Dog is an absolutely competent class with one of the best sets of pet bonuses.

Eh....Even if a Skald could take it it'd still interfere with swift action economy at least for the first turn. Besides, once it's fixed, a Skald is probably going to want to activate and deactivate incite rage every turn so to get that free final feint in.

As for Mad Dog, yeah sure....except such a character would be a perfect choice for now using the force ring instead. Arguably just as good and doesn't require a feat.

edit - I like how Owlcat didn't even bother putting in the normal requirement of spending 3 rounds of rage to activate this ability. Probably due to the fact that if you're playing a barbarian you're almost certainly going to take endless rage.

Force ring is Free Action.

 

[Average Manatee]

As for Mad Dog, yeah sure....except such a character would be a perfect choice for now using the force ring instead

Other characters can use it on you.

Force ring is Free Action.

The update changed this. Unless Owlcat fucked up again

 

[Desiderius]

If half your damage comes from summons and you're using one at a time then the rest of the characters in the group are pathetic.

If mobs are attacking Summons (and whiffing) I've got all day anyway. Guardian Armor has DR15/Adamantine. A couple rounds getting things nicely locked down then take it out however. Nice low variance for Tinman.

There are five other characters that can bring their own too. Tankard Summons have been fixed and Devas are consistently connecting now too.

Haven't even gotten to Devourer yet. Usually don't need them but decent way to direct traffic for a party without a dedicated tank.



Can see here that Graveknight from Reanimator has Improved Crit on his Bardiche.

 

[Desiderius]

Capstones are fun (and good). Don't wuss.

 

[Desiderius]

Lizard now has +2 to hit on Charge that goes up to +4 at lvl 7. Also applies to the Grapple check. Casters tend to have lower Fort saves and many are Human (not immune to Poison) as well. Smilo also gets Grapple.

Leopard gets Sneaks.

Demonstration of value of Ferocity on Boar (Hard Mandragora fight):



Boar gets ganked on lucky crit down to -18 HP. Thanks to Ferocity it stays upright though allowing Greybor to cash in on AoO that triggers whenever Mount gets hit from Tandeom Executioner ability (he also gets both Mobility and Nature Lore skill check to prevent some hits, but don't have items or Skill Foci yet for those checks). More importantly Greybor doesn't end up on his ass right next to the Mandragora.



Greybor was able to finish it off with the AoOs, but even if he hadn't Hospitaler Seelah with Mythic Channeling is ready to get him back to decent health.

 

[Desiderius]

Gormandizer is one fight where I just dump all the Summons since you can rest after and he steals weapons from regular toons (and has eight attacks).



Check that. He has one attack once he eats a Holy Bomb Stagger from Reanimator.



Ghaele Azata has Holy Ray thingie vs Touch. Made Seelah a Hospitaler to avoid Mark of Justice cheese which would have doubled this damage. Devas getting three hits in. Sneaks sharing on Inciter haven't kicked in yet.



Guardian Armor DR. Probably prefer Graveknight. Depends on situation. Will eventually cast as Swift too with Sorcerous Reflex. Even the second level guys are significantly stronger than usual Animate Dead dorks.

Spirit Paladins are only 5th lvl but they are Incorporeal with Lay on Hands.

Unfair means Mark of Justice is a ok in which case they're hitting even more often with a lot more damage on each hit.

On Hard Hospitaler is fine and she can Shield Bash (hadn't gotten Holy Thorn Yet):



+7 Enhancement from Divine Weapon Bond + Crusader's Edge.

*Demon's Terror Flail from Greengates finally working properly* and giving +4 to first hit. Combines well with new Shatter.