Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Average Manatee]

Note that the mythic heavy armor feats are various forms of useless. One lets you replace your dex bonus to armor with half your strength bonus (which makes the +max dex bonus from the class wasted)

I haven't played this in quite awhile and had been thinking of getting back into it. The prerequisite for that feat isn't fighter class, or at least not base fighter, is it? Not every heavy armour wearing class gets +dex bonus armour training. In fact, most of them don't, and that feat could be quite good on the others if it works properly and isn't also capped by the max dex modifier.

Yeah I was specifically talking about them in the context of being a fighter.

I wouldn't use either of them on unfair. Hearth is especially kinda useless until the level 20 capstone.

Note that the mythic heavy armor feats are various forms of useless. One lets you replace your dex bonus to armor with half your strength bonus (which makes the +max dex bonus from the class wasted), another adds damage from heavy armor but it doesn't bypass DR like your weapon does so it kinda sucks against anything relevant.

So the shield block from the Hearth fighter is that bad? Even if I stack AC and hope to only get hit once or twice in a round?
What's a good class for a sword+board tank, than? I'll use armor, because I fucking hate the robe tanks.

On unfair, if things are hitting you once or twice a round, and you aren't finishing fights in one round, that's a fairly bad battle and 20% DR isn't going to save you from a lot of deaths.

Between the fighter options I'd definitely still say Mutation Warrior is best. AC from your mutagen will beat upgrading from a heavy shield to a tower shield (not that you can't do that yourself if you are willing to take a -2 AB penalty) and your higher strength will help if/when you take that mythic half str to dex to boost AC further.

 

[Sheepherder]

On unfair, if things are hitting you once or twice a round, and you aren't finishing fights in one round, that's a fairly bad battle and 20% DR isn't going to save you from a lot of deaths.

Between the fighter options I'd definitely still say Mutation Warrior is best. AC from your mutagen will beat upgrading from a heavy shield to a tower shield (not that you can't do that yourself if you are willing to take a -2 AB penalty) and your higher strength will help if/when you take that mythic half str to dex to boost AC further.

Thanks. I guess mutagen is still superior to all other fighter archetypes.
Was Unfair overhauled in some way? I remember playing it and doing long, drawn out and messy fights and it being mostly fine.

 

[Average Manatee]

If you're doing long fights on unfair and getting hit constantly you're gonna run dry on HP pretty soon. Double damage basically makes every hit a crit and makes crits almost guaranteed death. You probably used Last Stand for the harder fights?

 

[Sheepherder]

If you're doing long fights on unfair and getting hit constantly you're gonna run dry on HP pretty soon. Double damage basically makes every hit a crit and makes crits almost guaranteed death. You probably used Last Stand for the harder fights?

Yeah and I think my tanks had enough AC to survive long enough. I did use the paladin woman, but with an unholy mix of dips to keep her AC good.
And I think I used that buff that makes mobs roll twice and get the worse result, so that I can avoid most crits. I had to apply the buff a out of combat bunch every time because it lasted like 6 seconds but using it again extended duration, or something.
I want to avoid a dip-fest this time around.

 

[Sheepherder]

Between the fighter options I'd definitely still say Mutation Warrior is best. AC from your mutagen will beat upgrading from a heavy shield to a tower shield (not that you can't do that yourself if you are willing to take a -2 AB penalty) and your higher strength will help if/when you take that mythic half str to dex to boost AC further.

I did some testing. The maximum STR AC bonus from the Mythic feat is capped at your maximum allowed DEX bonus, which is determined by armor and is increased by armor training. Since mutation warrior loses armor training, he loses the increase in allowed DEX. Not a good pick for a heavy armor class unfortunately.

Edit: I reread the feat description and it states the the DEX limit should be ignored. Is it bugged?

 

[Average Manatee]

Seems to work fine for me?

I have a bunch of mods installed including TTT, not sure if one of them fixes it but I haven't heard of it being bugged

 

[Sheepherder]

Seems to work fine for me?

I have a bunch of mods installed including TTT, not sure if one of them fixes it but I haven't heard of it being bugged

Welp, it looks like it's the Tower Shield that's fucking it up :D Equipping a Tower shield caps the max STR AC to the DEX AC allowed by the shield
I even disabled all the mods except ToyBox to see if it's not some mod conflict. Fucking Owlcat

 

[Average Manatee]

It does say the str bonus to AC isn't capped by your armor yet says nothing about the shield, so technically its working as written that your shield can still cap the dexterity bonus feat. Stupid as fuck though.

 

[mediocrepoet]

It does say the str bonus to AC isn't capped by your armor yet says nothing about the shield, so technically its working as written that your shield can still cap the dexterity bonus feat. Stupid as fuck though.

 

[Nas92]

In Areelu's lab is the Piece of an Ancient Cloak the same as the Ancient Scrap of Script-Covered Leather?

 

[Desiderius]

It does say the str bonus to AC isn't capped by your armor yet says nothing about the shield, so technically its working as written that your shield can still cap the dexterity bonus feat. Stupid as fuck though.

Armor training FTW again.

 

[Average Manatee]

More like tower shields FTL

 

[KeAShizuku]

Regretting a choice and reloading an hour old save JFC make it stop this game is catnip for story fag me.

 

[Desiderius]

More like tower shields FTL

Game has some really sweet Tower Shields late (and a +3 available at lvl 6). Just the thing to let Seelah tank Unfair. Never had a chance to stack the Heavy DR on top of Tower DR with the new Sword and Board archetype (and other sources of DR) but that should get there too.

Once you've got a feel for the tactics TSS Val in P:K is like butter too.

 

[Cyberarmy]

new Sword and Board archetype

There is a new S&B archtype?!?!!? Must.resist.new.playthrough.

 

[Pathfinder: WoTR]

Once you've got a feel for the tactics TSS Val in P:K is like butter too.

The tactics being "just put your TSS at the front of a party formation", because most enemies just attack the first target they see. Your backline is only really getting hit by the stray AoE attacks or some random demons spawning from behind and focusing on the closest party members.

 

[Desiderius]

Once you've got a feel for the tactics TSS Val in P:K is like butter too.

The tactics being "just put your TSS at the front of a party formation", because most enemies just attack the first target they see. Your backline is only really getting hit by the stray AoE attacks or some random demons spawning from behind and focusing on the closest party members.

Easier said than done, plus there’s how to get Fighting Defensively turned on before mobs start attacking, how to make most out of action econ, identifying vulnerabilities and minimizing them, etc…

Archetype is nice fit with all of those.

 

[Infinitron]

What now?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Smokescreen for Armored Battlemage fix.

 

[Sheepherder]

It does say the str bonus to AC isn't capped by your armor yet says nothing about the shield, so technically its working as written that your shield can still cap the dexterity bonus feat. Stupid as fuck though.

Did some more testing. It's even worse. The max DEX allowed by Tower Shields is not affected by regular Armor Training you get from fighters, it can only be raised by the Tower Shield Training feats you get from Tower Shield Specialist. So at level 15 it's a +5 bonus to max allowed DEX. So like 7 or 9 max DEX total, depending on the shield.
Tower shields suck ass. What is even the point of them, they're only 2* AC more than heavy shields and they can't scale for shit.

 

[Desiderius]

2 AC more, plus unique effects.

TTT has a feat that gives Tower Shield Training (I think) and splashing one level of TSS on non-Fighter also comes with the bonus Feat.

 

[Yosharian]

Did some more testing. It's even worse. The max DEX allowed by Tower Shields is not affected by regular Armor Training you get from fighters, it can only be raised by the Tower Shield Training feats you get from Tower Shield Specialist. So at level 15 it's a +5 bonus to max allowed DEX. So like 7 or 9 max DEX total, depending on the shield.
Tower shields suck ass. What is even the point of them, they're only 1 AC more than heavy shields and they can't scale for shit.

There is no point

Welcome to Owlcat balance

 

[Sheepherder]

2 AC more, plus unique effects.

TTT has a feat that gives Tower Shield Training (I think) and splashing one level of TSS on non-Fighter also comes with the bonus Feat.

Right, 2 AC.
Which gets negated by the cap to DEX, because the Tower Shield Training is only +5 to max DEX total at level 15. So you can only have a DEX bonus to AC of 7 with tower shields. The mythic heavy armor feat that adds half STR instead of DEX gets capped at 38 STR.

And the feat from TTT is bugged, if I get it and equip a Tower Shield, the game crashes. It'd be nice if it worked. I really wanna play a tower shield toon, since they look so much cooler compared to heavy shields.

I think one of the later game tower shields has a base max DEX of 4, maybe?

 

[Desiderius]

2 AC more, plus unique effects.

TTT has a feat that gives Tower Shield Training (I think) and splashing one level of TSS on non-Fighter also comes with the bonus Feat.

Right, 2 AC.
Which gets negated by the cap to DEX, because the Tower Shield Training is only +5 to max DEX total at level 15. So you can only have a DEX bonus to AC of 7 with tower shields. The mythic heavy armor feat that adds half STR instead of DEX gets capped at 38 STR.

And the feat from TTT is bugged, if I get it and equip a Tower Shield, the game crashes. It'd be nice if it worked. I really wanna play a tower shield toon, since they look so much cooler compared to heavy shields.

I think one of the later game tower shields has a base max DEX of 4, maybe?

The hard part of the game is at lvl 6, not lvl 15. Have fun on those endgame raids though! That's where the best Towers show up, so it makes up for it in any event.

You can get to effectively infinite AC by then so the DR Mythic ends up being better than STR-to-AC anyway. If you want to play with a Tower just don't take that Mythic and then you're freed up for something else (if you don't want to go DR either).



You'll be 10 short of this pic because 6 is from a mod and Crane has been fixed, but still more than enough.

Sword and Board Fighter doesn't even need the TSS splash.

 

[Sheepherder]

The hard part of the game is at lvl 6, not lvl 15. Have fun on those endgame raids though! That's where the best Towers show up, so it makes up for it in any event.

You can get to effectively infinite AC by then so the DR Mythic ends up being better than STR-to-AC anyway. If you want to play with a Tower just don't take that Mythic and then you're freed up for something else (if you don't want to go DR either).

View attachment 57510View attachment 57511

You'll be 10 short of this pic because 6 is from a mod and Crane has been fixed, but still more than enough.

Sword and Board Fighter doesn't even need the TSS splash.

I won't be multi-classing and I'll be playing a Demon, so I'll be missing more AC than 10. Will get hit more often. The new Hearth Protector fighter looks appealing when combined with the DR mythic. TTT has a heavy armor feat to increase DR too.