Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[axedice]

For exhaustion, you can also spam lesser restoration spells, scrolls and potions. First cast removes fatigue, second cast removes exhausted. Since it is a lvl1 paladin spell, you also get infinite cast via trickster.

BTW all companions can tank unfair with 80+ AC and a bunch of immunities with the right setup. Seelah, camellia and wenduag/lann are the best bets though, since they only have 1 level at their base class. Camellia is good at this even with her base class, but a tank without any other utility is a no go for unfair imo.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Any good build that can still work with Aeon on Unfair?

You can do any path (except swarm probably,) on unfair if you have a good party and play well but Aeon isn't very good. The aeon gazes you can select early are the weaker of the gazes so you don't have much of a power spike early. The gazes that boost spells are somewhat inconvenient because generally you want to cast your spells before you're sitting there in combat using multiple swift actions, and the boosts it gives are rather small anyway. Aeons bane is the best part of it, a nice upgraded bane that adds decent damage and does a dispel, but it takes a long time to scale up and doesn't give you any survivability really. It has some decent options for dispelling but still is worse at it than lich or trickster, and it has a bad spell list overall. If I was gonna do an unfair Aeon playthrough I'd probably do a dual wielding sohei to get bane off as many times as possible and use a brown fur transmuter mercenary to give geniekind to proc bane and elemental barrage lots and buff the mc but that makes the game easy on any mythic path. But again a good player will do unfair handily on any path (except swarm) so I wouldn't worry about it. Aeon also has awesome (and completely unique) ending slides and has a big effect on many characters so I highly recommend it

 

[NJClaw]

it is "virtually bug free"

You see bugs, I see unintended features

 

[Sharpedge]

Any good build that can still work with Aeon on Unfair?

You can do any path (except swarm probably,) on unfair if you have a good party and play well but Aeon isn't very good. The aeon gazes you can select early are the weaker of the gazes so you don't have much of a power spike early. The gazes that boost spells are somewhat inconvenient because generally you want to cast your spells before you're sitting there in combat using multiple swift actions, and the boosts it gives are rather small anyway. Aeons bane is the best part of it, a nice upgraded bane that adds decent damage and does a dispel, but it takes a long time to scale up and doesn't give you any survivability really. It has some decent options for dispelling but still is worse at it than lich or trickster, and it has a bad spell list overall. If I was gonna do an unfair Aeon playthrough I'd probably do a dual wielding sohei to get bane off as many times as possible and use a brown fur transmuter mercenary to give geniekind to proc bane and elemental barrage lots and buff the mc but that makes the game easy on any mythic path. But again a good player will do unfair handily on any path (except swarm) so I wouldn't worry about it. Aeon also has awesome (and completely unique) ending slides and has a big effect on many characters so I highly recommend it

Swarm has already been done on unfair (although not by me, rank 8 soloing with swarm sounds painful). I think swarm as a path could be salvaged simply by shuffling around when you gain the mythic ranks. If you gained swarm clone earlier on it would be a different experience.

 

[perfectslumbers]

BTW all companions can tank unfair with 80+ AC and a bunch of immunities with the right setup. Seelah, camellia and wenduag/lann are the best bets though, since they only have 1 level at their base class. Camellia is good at this even with her base class, but a tank without any other utility is a no go for unfair imo.

I can get Lann and Wenduag and Camellia to over 80 ac but how do you do it with Seelah? Also Camellia's utility is stabbing people and having frightful aspect so you can get shatter without dirge of doom or a divine caster running up.

Swarm has already been done on unfair (although not by me, rank 8 soloing with swarm sounds painful). I think swarm as a path could be salvaged simply by shuffling around when you gain the mythic ranks. If you gained swarm clone earlier on it would be a different experience.

Whoever did that is a complete gigachad and deserves a prize. They should move the stat scaling down to mr8 at least imo, although the design of a path that can scale infinitely with grinding is sort of weird and out of place in a crpg anyway.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I see that descriptions do not match the behaviours. It is a bug in a sense that it is inconsistent. There are 2 ways to fix this inconsistency: to change the mechanics or to change the descriptions. If Owlcat Games choose the latter, it is as good as the former, because all the Mythic paths are home made. There are no external sources to them, so there is no way to say "you did this wrong".

Until it is fixed (one way or another), there is a simple workaround: make your builds using combat logs instead of spell descriptions. You are doing this for 3+ years with the Crane feats chain anyway.

Having said that, I appreciate the effort this redditor has put into his diagram. Nicely done.

 

[ga♥]

Swarm has already been done on unfair (although not by me, rank 8 soloing with swarm sounds painful). I think swarm as a path could be salvaged simply by shuffling around when you gain the mythic ranks. If you gained swarm clone earlier on it would be a different experience.

There's a let's play on Youtube of a guy doing swarm unfair. He basically cheese every encounter, most of the times dimension dooring himself somewhere unreachable and then hitting enemies with a bow and skipping lot of optional encounters. Doesn't seem very enjoyable tbh, at least I wouldn't find it enjoyable.

 

[Cryomancer]

Some(a lot) of people are asking for higher level of gameplay in Reeeeddit : https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder...m_worried_that_the_next_pathfinder_game_will/

As I've said, I wish for a lv 1~15 adventure next, like Rise of The Runelords, Skull & Shakles and so on. You still can have a one time per campaign tier 9 spell scroll like Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager did(meteor swarm is very hard to get and you can only use once during the campaign). The reason is not that I don't like very high level and epic level gameplay. Is merely that OwlCat delivers better adventures in this level ranges(1~15). After Pitax, Kingmaker becomes too boring. Mainly at house at edge of time. And Wrath becomes too boring on late ch 5.

Mephistopheles for eg which is a iconic and memorable enemy in NWN1:HotU, even at lv 30+, you need to do a lot of quests getting unique items, his true name and so on to have a chance against him. Here, he is a cakewalk. IMO Demon Lords and Archdevils even at high epic level should't be "mini bosses". Should be the main antagonist where for the most of the campaign, PC's can't do anything.

 

[Grunker]

In general it would be cool if they used one of the many genuinely interesting adventure paths instead of 2 out of the 3 most and only completely generic ones. Now that I've said that they'll probably to RotR next

 

[ga♥]

I mean they don't need to use an existing AP. They can create the story themselves, I think they would be able to.

 

[volklore]

I mean they don't need to use an existing AP. They can create the story themselves, I think they would be able to.

As much as I like the games, I wouldn't be so sure. As I see it either :
1) They have total freedom to write original stories in their deal with Paizo and they chose to do APs because they would rather work with a source material
2) Their deal with Paizo only lets them adapt APs

Also adaptation and original writing are two very different skillset and exercises, being good at the former doesn't necessarily translate to the latter, and invertly.

 

[LannTheStupid]

And another thing.

There are no health numbers on the enemies (if someone hasn't noticed). There are either "health circles" or verbal descriptions like "wounded", "badly wounded" and so on. I checked it myself.

So even if in the combat log it is written "271 damage" it might be a lie as well. At this moment we have no way to confirm that when the combat log registers 27 damage to a Babau this particular Babau, indeed, receives 27 damage. And, because the "Inspect" button does not show the exact health of the inspected enemy, in the end it becomes the game of guesses anyway. I know this, because in a couple of fights I used (admittedly flawed) tactics of alpha-striking, when I really wanted to kill one particular enemy in the first round. There is no way to calculate; only stack all the possible buffs and see what happens.

So while math exercises are fun and useful, this game can not be perfected to precise numbers like in WoW DPS logs.

Edit: this post is fake news, indeed. The health numbers are available, and can be compared with what is written in the combat log.

 

[Camel]

I mean they don't need to use an existing AP. They can create the story themselves, I think they would be able to.

Can Owlcat create a quality combat system in-house without basing it on Pathfinder aka D&D 3.75? Combat is their main strength now. Look at what happened with BioWare combat after they started designing their own IPs.

 

[ga♥]

I mean they don't need to use an existing AP. They can create the story themselves, I think they would be able to.

Can Owlcat create a quality combat system in-house without basing it on Pathfinder aka D&D 3.75 as combat is their main strength now. Look at what happened with BioWare combat after they started designing their own IPs.

No obviously they need to keep the Pathfinder system and golarion setting too. What I meant is that they can create the campaign themselves. Baldur's gate wasn't based on an AP.
This said I have no details about the deal they have with Paizo, but considering the success of both games I don't think they would oppose too much the idea, as long as they are allowed to supervision the thing.

Spoiler

could the storyteller end in wrath be a hint toward this also?

 

[Grunker]

I mean they don't need to use an existing AP. They can create the story themselves, I think they would be able to.

Can you say

?

The fact that we get boring ass WotR before this pile of beautiful is a travesty

 

[perfectslumbers]

As I've said, I wish for a lv 1~15 adventure next,

Yeah, I'd like a much more down to earth game next, hopefully not an adventure path adaptation at all. While the epic story of WOTR was fun and I love the game I think the strongest parts of the game were the most down to earth, such as the companions or the quandaries in Wintersun. And while the game is fun mythic level gameplay really puts the problems with Pathfinder into perspective. I replayed Kingmaker recently and was surprised by how little time I spent prebuffing, whereas in WOTR I hit the buff cap multiple times. And oh boy the whole "rocket tag," thing gets really extreme later on.

Truthfully I just don't think the alignment creatures are that interesting when you're in such close contact with them. The interesting part about alignment as a metaphysical aspect of the world is how it interacts with mortals. Demons and angels and aeons are boring in and of themselves, and as such being one is kinda boring too imo.

Also adaptation and original writing are two very different skillset and exercises, being good at the former doesn't necessarily translate to the latter, and invertly.

Owlcat adds so much that I think they could do an original adventure well. The main story of WOTR is pretty much entirely an Owlcat original, and the companions are mostly original too. The easiest part of a story is coming up with a cool idea to roll with imo, and they're perfectly good at doing the harder parts on their own.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Look at what happened with BioWare combat after they started designing their own IPs.

Combat in Dragon Age: Origins was not worse than in both Owlcat games, and the tactics made it much better than Owlcat's.

I would have very much preferred not a different combat system, but the enemy A.I. that can correctly utilize every tool available to it, and the tools to program the party A.I. for the player. For me, this is what makes the combat fun. The difficulty should change the enemy A.I. first, then the kind of the enemies, then the quantity of them, and only then inflate the stats. Right now Owlcat Games do it in exactly the opposite order.

 

[Sharpedge]

And another thing.

There are no health numbers on the enemies (if someone hasn't noticed). There are either "health circles" or verbal descriptions like "wounded", "badly wounded" and so on. I checked it myself.

So even if in the combat log it is written "271 damage" it might be a lie as well. At this moment we have no way to confirm that when the combat log registers 27 damage to a Babau this particular Babau, indeed, receives 27 damage. And, because the "Inspect" button does not show the exact health of the inspected enemy, in the end it becomes the game of guesses anyway. I know this, because in a couple of fights I used (admittedly flawed) tactics of alpha-striking, when I really wanted to kill one particular enemy in the first round. There is no way to calculate; only stack all the possible buffs and see what happens.

So while math exercises are fun and useful, this game can not be perfected to precise numbers like in WoW DPS logs.

Enable inspect mode (Y key by default) and then hover over an enemy.

 

[ga♥]

IMHO they should put the inspect thing behind some feat requirement or something.

 

[NJClaw]

So even if in the combat log it is written "271 damage" it might be a lie as well. At this moment we have no way to confirm that when the combat log registers 27 damage to a Babau this particular Babau, indeed, receives 27 damage. And, because the "Inspect" button does not show the exact health of the inspected enemy, in the end it becomes the game of guesses anyway.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Enable inspect mode (Y key by default) and then hover over an enemy.

You're right, and I am, apparently, a moron.

Though I could have sworn that about 10 days ago I did not see that on Faxon in the tower of Estrod. Oh well, thanks for pointing it out.

NJClaw thank you as well. Until they restore my ability to rate posts, I will spam the forum with such messages.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Can Owlcat create a quality combat system in-house without basing it on Pathfinder aka D&D 3.75? Combat is their main strength now. Look at what happened with BioWare combat after they started designing their own IPs.

Original rtwp games will keep sucking until devs realise that rounds are actually good because they give you a clear time to pause, instead of say pillars of eternity where you might pause once every 0.1 seconds multiple times in a row as your characters finish their staggered abilities, then wait 5 seconds, then do it again. The round gives an important pacing to the pausing that a roundless system doesn't have. Thankfully Owlcat doesn't give a shit about balance so we'll never have some homogenised mess like pillars of eternity if they ever do an original system.

 

[Raghar]

There are no good romances in this game.

This is the game of bromance. Regill, Greybor, Lann and even Woljif.

Lady part is a wreck though. A chaotic good paladin,a nutz spider-thing, a nutz elf witch, a nutz furry wizard and the nutz queen. Also Sosiel.

You forgot doraemon.

 

[Cryomancer]

Can you say

Carrion's crown would be great, but DM a horror campaign or even make a good CRPG with horror is not easy. I know cuz I've DMed a one shot of Ship of Horrors.

IMHO they should put the inspect thing behind some feat requirement or something.

Yep. Like Kingmaker.

Thankfully Owlcat doesn't give a shit about balance so we'll never have some homogenised mess like pillars of eternity if they ever do an original system.

OwlCat doesn't care about it, but Paizo is sadly infected with balance cultism. So, lets pray that they will never force PF2E or any shit that PF3E will be in then. IF they use their own system, lets hope that will resembles more a retroclone and less a wow clone.

 

[NJClaw]

Though I could have sworn that about 10 days ago I did not see that on Faxon in the tower of Estrod. Oh well, thanks for pointing it out.

I'm fairly sure it came with the big patch that also improved many other little UI details. On the other hand, I'm drunk and I can't be trusted.