Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[volklore]

What are good Mythic paths?

Tbh they're all really good if you do a build that synergises with them except aeon/swarm/golddragon

Why Aeon is bad?

Any good build that can still work with Aeon on Unfair?

It has built in synergy with summoners, but even all of that your summons are going to get one shot and not hit often on unfair.
Then there is the issue that half of the aeon kit is swift actions. So any class that relies on swift actions is out of the question or your action economy is going to suck - and for me nothing feels worse than to play classes with bad action economy. Even just the aeon kit itself has too many swifts. And believe me a lot of classes rely on swift actions.
Inquisitor specifically is a trap for aeon. Spellbooks overlap, and judgement and gazes do not work together, the stacking banes are a poor consolation prize.
In the end Aeon is very party oriented. So i believe that if you're going for an unfair aeon playthrough, you'd want to spend the most theorycrafting time on building a solid, highly synergetic party, built around the first 2 gaze picks you get.
Off the top of my head, I would say classes that complement the aeon the most are martials or gishes who do not rely on swifts. The more I think about it the more I like bloodrager for it : No swifts, the Aeon spellbook divine selfbuffs complement the bloodrager arcane spelllist well, bane on top of bloodrage and in combination with divine charge and pounce (if primalist) if very powerfull.
Other one I kind of like would be a frontline Court Poet Skald (Something like Skald11/Fighter5/DD4) focused on supporting party casters in a very caster heavy party. Skalds can sing as move action so your action economy wouldn't too bogged down. The idea being stacking the Aeon DC gaze and the Court Poet inspiring performance to give casters in your party +4 DC when you get gaze at M4, (Not sure it would be good enough for unfair - although Bard/skalds can make very reliable tanks if you are willing to dip a bit- and they get good UMD which means it's easy to take advantage of scroll crafting from your caster companions). My main idea is that Save or suck schools (illusion and enchantment) have really good itemization and with a little kick from Aeon gazes a caster focused party should be able to do very well.
I've read others are using Sensei monk + a Vital strike party which is a similar idea but for a physical party instead.

 

[Cryomancer]

Is demon MP still awful? I saw this post in reeedit https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder.../demon_mythic_path_is_still_buggy_but_it_got/

 

[volklore]

Aspect of coloxus at M5 makes me considers making a demon wizard. Sad you have to rest spam, but move casting in act 4 is pretty sick.

 

[Grunker]

it is "virtually bug free"

 

[havox]

Got filtered hard by second to last fight. My Azata CHA tank had 60AC and +40 attacks in chapter 4 and 70-something AC +50 attacks in endgame. Boss has 78AC, 5 healthbars for a total of 6000hp, and +70 attacks to touch AC. So she spammed maximized Polar Ray, my tank has cold immunity but -4 DEX drain is unavoidable unless she rolls 1. All her 'spells' are actually abilities so she can spam them unlimited times. She can't damage my tank, I can't damage her fast enough, tank croaks from stat drain. On my best try got 2 of her healtbars for 2000 damage before running out of restoration scrolls. In hindsight 20/20 could have bought 200 restoration scrolls before entering last dungeon but nah, can't be arsed to slog through Threshold AGAIN.
Ah well, solid 4/10 slavjank RPG, despite encountering more bugs than Cyberpunk 2077, shit story, shit companions except Regill, cancerous crusade mode and overstatted critters that cheat and break all the PnP rules that you have to obey, still mildly enjoyable, especially with lots of alcohol. Definitely better than Pillars of Boring Loredumps and Divinity Reddit Humor 2. Oh baby, can't have enough slavjank, on to Encased!

 

[axedice]

For exhaustion, you can also spam lesser restoration spells, scrolls and potions. First cast removes fatigue, second cast removes exhausted. Since it is a lvl1 paladin spell, you also get infinite cast via trickster.

BTW all companions can tank unfair with 80+ AC and a bunch of immunities with the right setup. Seelah, camellia and wenduag/lann are the best bets though, since they only have 1 level at their base class. Camellia is good at this even with her base class, but a tank without any other utility is a no go for unfair imo.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Any good build that can still work with Aeon on Unfair?

You can do any path (except swarm probably,) on unfair if you have a good party and play well but Aeon isn't very good. The aeon gazes you can select early are the weaker of the gazes so you don't have much of a power spike early. The gazes that boost spells are somewhat inconvenient because generally you want to cast your spells before you're sitting there in combat using multiple swift actions, and the boosts it gives are rather small anyway. Aeons bane is the best part of it, a nice upgraded bane that adds decent damage and does a dispel, but it takes a long time to scale up and doesn't give you any survivability really. It has some decent options for dispelling but still is worse at it than lich or trickster, and it has a bad spell list overall. If I was gonna do an unfair Aeon playthrough I'd probably do a dual wielding sohei to get bane off as many times as possible and use a brown fur transmuter mercenary to give geniekind to proc bane and elemental barrage lots and buff the mc but that makes the game easy on any mythic path. But again a good player will do unfair handily on any path (except swarm) so I wouldn't worry about it. Aeon also has awesome (and completely unique) ending slides and has a big effect on many characters so I highly recommend it

 

[NJClaw]

it is "virtually bug free"

You see bugs, I see unintended features

 

[Sharpedge]

Any good build that can still work with Aeon on Unfair?

You can do any path (except swarm probably,) on unfair if you have a good party and play well but Aeon isn't very good. The aeon gazes you can select early are the weaker of the gazes so you don't have much of a power spike early. The gazes that boost spells are somewhat inconvenient because generally you want to cast your spells before you're sitting there in combat using multiple swift actions, and the boosts it gives are rather small anyway. Aeons bane is the best part of it, a nice upgraded bane that adds decent damage and does a dispel, but it takes a long time to scale up and doesn't give you any survivability really. It has some decent options for dispelling but still is worse at it than lich or trickster, and it has a bad spell list overall. If I was gonna do an unfair Aeon playthrough I'd probably do a dual wielding sohei to get bane off as many times as possible and use a brown fur transmuter mercenary to give geniekind to proc bane and elemental barrage lots and buff the mc but that makes the game easy on any mythic path. But again a good player will do unfair handily on any path (except swarm) so I wouldn't worry about it. Aeon also has awesome (and completely unique) ending slides and has a big effect on many characters so I highly recommend it

Swarm has already been done on unfair (although not by me, rank 8 soloing with swarm sounds painful). I think swarm as a path could be salvaged simply by shuffling around when you gain the mythic ranks. If you gained swarm clone earlier on it would be a different experience.

 

[perfectslumbers]

BTW all companions can tank unfair with 80+ AC and a bunch of immunities with the right setup. Seelah, camellia and wenduag/lann are the best bets though, since they only have 1 level at their base class. Camellia is good at this even with her base class, but a tank without any other utility is a no go for unfair imo.

I can get Lann and Wenduag and Camellia to over 80 ac but how do you do it with Seelah? Also Camellia's utility is stabbing people and having frightful aspect so you can get shatter without dirge of doom or a divine caster running up.

Swarm has already been done on unfair (although not by me, rank 8 soloing with swarm sounds painful). I think swarm as a path could be salvaged simply by shuffling around when you gain the mythic ranks. If you gained swarm clone earlier on it would be a different experience.

Whoever did that is a complete gigachad and deserves a prize. They should move the stat scaling down to mr8 at least imo, although the design of a path that can scale infinitely with grinding is sort of weird and out of place in a crpg anyway.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I see that descriptions do not match the behaviours. It is a bug in a sense that it is inconsistent. There are 2 ways to fix this inconsistency: to change the mechanics or to change the descriptions. If Owlcat Games choose the latter, it is as good as the former, because all the Mythic paths are home made. There are no external sources to them, so there is no way to say "you did this wrong".

Until it is fixed (one way or another), there is a simple workaround: make your builds using combat logs instead of spell descriptions. You are doing this for 3+ years with the Crane feats chain anyway.

Having said that, I appreciate the effort this redditor has put into his diagram. Nicely done.

 

[ga♥]

Swarm has already been done on unfair (although not by me, rank 8 soloing with swarm sounds painful). I think swarm as a path could be salvaged simply by shuffling around when you gain the mythic ranks. If you gained swarm clone earlier on it would be a different experience.

There's a let's play on Youtube of a guy doing swarm unfair. He basically cheese every encounter, most of the times dimension dooring himself somewhere unreachable and then hitting enemies with a bow and skipping lot of optional encounters. Doesn't seem very enjoyable tbh, at least I wouldn't find it enjoyable.

 

[Cryomancer]

Some(a lot) of people are asking for higher level of gameplay in Reeeeddit : https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder...m_worried_that_the_next_pathfinder_game_will/

As I've said, I wish for a lv 1~15 adventure next, like Rise of The Runelords, Skull & Shakles and so on. You still can have a one time per campaign tier 9 spell scroll like Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager did(meteor swarm is very hard to get and you can only use once during the campaign). The reason is not that I don't like very high level and epic level gameplay. Is merely that OwlCat delivers better adventures in this level ranges(1~15). After Pitax, Kingmaker becomes too boring. Mainly at house at edge of time. And Wrath becomes too boring on late ch 5.

Mephistopheles for eg which is a iconic and memorable enemy in NWN1:HotU, even at lv 30+, you need to do a lot of quests getting unique items, his true name and so on to have a chance against him. Here, he is a cakewalk. IMO Demon Lords and Archdevils even at high epic level should't be "mini bosses". Should be the main antagonist where for the most of the campaign, PC's can't do anything.

 

[Grunker]

In general it would be cool if they used one of the many genuinely interesting adventure paths instead of 2 out of the 3 most and only completely generic ones. Now that I've said that they'll probably to RotR next

 

[ga♥]

I mean they don't need to use an existing AP. They can create the story themselves, I think they would be able to.

 

[volklore]

I mean they don't need to use an existing AP. They can create the story themselves, I think they would be able to.

As much as I like the games, I wouldn't be so sure. As I see it either :
1) They have total freedom to write original stories in their deal with Paizo and they chose to do APs because they would rather work with a source material
2) Their deal with Paizo only lets them adapt APs

Also adaptation and original writing are two very different skillset and exercises, being good at the former doesn't necessarily translate to the latter, and invertly.

 

[LannTheStupid]

And another thing.

There are no health numbers on the enemies (if someone hasn't noticed). There are either "health circles" or verbal descriptions like "wounded", "badly wounded" and so on. I checked it myself.

So even if in the combat log it is written "271 damage" it might be a lie as well. At this moment we have no way to confirm that when the combat log registers 27 damage to a Babau this particular Babau, indeed, receives 27 damage. And, because the "Inspect" button does not show the exact health of the inspected enemy, in the end it becomes the game of guesses anyway. I know this, because in a couple of fights I used (admittedly flawed) tactics of alpha-striking, when I really wanted to kill one particular enemy in the first round. There is no way to calculate; only stack all the possible buffs and see what happens.

So while math exercises are fun and useful, this game can not be perfected to precise numbers like in WoW DPS logs.

Edit: this post is fake news, indeed. The health numbers are available, and can be compared with what is written in the combat log.

 

[Camel]

I mean they don't need to use an existing AP. They can create the story themselves, I think they would be able to.

Can Owlcat create a quality combat system in-house without basing it on Pathfinder aka D&D 3.75? Combat is their main strength now. Look at what happened with BioWare combat after they started designing their own IPs.

 

[ga♥]

I mean they don't need to use an existing AP. They can create the story themselves, I think they would be able to.

Can Owlcat create a quality combat system in-house without basing it on Pathfinder aka D&D 3.75 as combat is their main strength now. Look at what happened with BioWare combat after they started designing their own IPs.

No obviously they need to keep the Pathfinder system and golarion setting too. What I meant is that they can create the campaign themselves. Baldur's gate wasn't based on an AP.
This said I have no details about the deal they have with Paizo, but considering the success of both games I don't think they would oppose too much the idea, as long as they are allowed to supervision the thing.

Spoiler

could the storyteller end in wrath be a hint toward this also?

 

[Grunker]

I mean they don't need to use an existing AP. They can create the story themselves, I think they would be able to.

Can you say

?

The fact that we get boring ass WotR before this pile of beautiful is a travesty

 

[perfectslumbers]

As I've said, I wish for a lv 1~15 adventure next,

Yeah, I'd like a much more down to earth game next, hopefully not an adventure path adaptation at all. While the epic story of WOTR was fun and I love the game I think the strongest parts of the game were the most down to earth, such as the companions or the quandaries in Wintersun. And while the game is fun mythic level gameplay really puts the problems with Pathfinder into perspective. I replayed Kingmaker recently and was surprised by how little time I spent prebuffing, whereas in WOTR I hit the buff cap multiple times. And oh boy the whole "rocket tag," thing gets really extreme later on.

Truthfully I just don't think the alignment creatures are that interesting when you're in such close contact with them. The interesting part about alignment as a metaphysical aspect of the world is how it interacts with mortals. Demons and angels and aeons are boring in and of themselves, and as such being one is kinda boring too imo.

Also adaptation and original writing are two very different skillset and exercises, being good at the former doesn't necessarily translate to the latter, and invertly.

Owlcat adds so much that I think they could do an original adventure well. The main story of WOTR is pretty much entirely an Owlcat original, and the companions are mostly original too. The easiest part of a story is coming up with a cool idea to roll with imo, and they're perfectly good at doing the harder parts on their own.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Look at what happened with BioWare combat after they started designing their own IPs.

Combat in Dragon Age: Origins was not worse than in both Owlcat games, and the tactics made it much better than Owlcat's.

I would have very much preferred not a different combat system, but the enemy A.I. that can correctly utilize every tool available to it, and the tools to program the party A.I. for the player. For me, this is what makes the combat fun. The difficulty should change the enemy A.I. first, then the kind of the enemies, then the quantity of them, and only then inflate the stats. Right now Owlcat Games do it in exactly the opposite order.

 

[Sharpedge]

And another thing.

There are no health numbers on the enemies (if someone hasn't noticed). There are either "health circles" or verbal descriptions like "wounded", "badly wounded" and so on. I checked it myself.

So even if in the combat log it is written "271 damage" it might be a lie as well. At this moment we have no way to confirm that when the combat log registers 27 damage to a Babau this particular Babau, indeed, receives 27 damage. And, because the "Inspect" button does not show the exact health of the inspected enemy, in the end it becomes the game of guesses anyway. I know this, because in a couple of fights I used (admittedly flawed) tactics of alpha-striking, when I really wanted to kill one particular enemy in the first round. There is no way to calculate; only stack all the possible buffs and see what happens.

So while math exercises are fun and useful, this game can not be perfected to precise numbers like in WoW DPS logs.

Enable inspect mode (Y key by default) and then hover over an enemy.

 

[ga♥]

IMHO they should put the inspect thing behind some feat requirement or something.

 

[NJClaw]

So even if in the combat log it is written "271 damage" it might be a lie as well. At this moment we have no way to confirm that when the combat log registers 27 damage to a Babau this particular Babau, indeed, receives 27 damage. And, because the "Inspect" button does not show the exact health of the inspected enemy, in the end it becomes the game of guesses anyway.