Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[ArchAngel]

I found both Durlag and Watchers a bore, best stuff in BG1 and Bg2 was exploring shit, not being stuck in one place forever. Being able to rush for Basilisks and enemy parties on that map beat anything in Durlags or Watchers

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Um.. the first big area in KM has:
- one yuge overland level and two yuge underground levels
- multiples connections and shortcuts between them, some of which need to be unlocked/earned
- two warring factions, you can support/fight/betray either of them
- quest you can solve with diplo and other skill checks
- multiple checks for different skills in general
- multiple optional mini-boss encounters, some of which are very difficult for the point you first encounter them at
- multiple secret areas, some of which hold very nice loot for the level you're at

The second big dungeon has a lot of the above plus: double boss where, again, diplo skills matter, even to the point where you can recruit one of them as an ally, decent riddle with very nice reward, a secret way to insta-defeat a miniboss.

The third biggish are between them, while not as big and not really a dungeon, still has a lot of the above and: option to approach either openly or via stealth, using diplo to dissuade boss's allies or turn them against him, killing different stuff quickly/silently to alter final encounter, consequence of previous actions where if you were diligent and made skill checks in previous location you had a chance to weaken the boss.

I can go on, but the general point is that the IE games I've played don't really compare to that. Which is the way it should be, considering the gulf of time. And I'm saying that as someone who genuinely loves a lot of locations in BG2 and IWD, but let's face it: it's mostly for the atmosphere and the visuals (as well as the phat loot), not some ingenious design.

The obvious issue is the encounter design, which is not as bad as IE games at their worst, but is rarely gr8 and nowhere near IE games at their best. The first big area in Varnhold was like the best of KM and best of BG2 put together and has bestowed a huge boner upon me, but no one thought it might be a good idea to follow up on that in Wrath, unfortunately.

 

[purupuru]

What kind of puzzles is everyone trying to refer to

For me it's more about what kinds of puzzles aren't there in the bg games (at least not as prevalent as they are in the Kingmaker): those super generic floor-switch/lever/math puzzles that could go in literally any video game of any genre with minimum adjustment. The bg games' puzzles are often more in line with the statue puzzle in Wrath's Grey Garrison: read, observe and think (some knowledge of the lore would help).

Also "each level with a singular purpose" only applies to Watcher's keep so not really sure what is the point here since it is not a rule for every BG dungeon.

Off the top of my head, Planar Sphere, Spellhold, and the Athkatla Temple District Sewers (as a whole) also gave me this impression. Though I admit this is rather subjective, and if you simply disagree I won't push the point.

 

[Nikanuur]

.

(that isometric) Pool of Radiance, wink wink.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

The automated depths aside, the only dungeon I didn't care for was Armag's Tomb. The CYOA moments broke up some of the monotony, and I guess the fireball trap helped, but it was otherwise very bland and far too large. I autoattacked my way through the entire thing.

I didn't play kingmaker until the "its done version" was released, but I thought HatEoT was pretty decent. It had some good boss fights, tough enemies, and plenty to discover. The lantern mechanic was well established by then, so it wasn't complicated. This was a type of dingeon you might get in PnP. My only complaint was the "fog hub", where there was far too little area to move and too much overlap of the fog. The pathfinding and space constraints caused me to take an unintended cloud several times.

 

[Grotesque]

so... how buggy this game still is?

 

[Cryomancer]

so... how buggy this game still is?

A bit, is playable. Some streamers already finished in the "permadeath" mode.

 

[Nikanuur]

I'd say this game is a build-gasm RPG game (disregarding the bugs that would hopefully dissapear in time anyway). I won't say how I feel about WoTR regarding the dungeons, much has been discussed anyway. But do we have some general consensus, some guide-line game that can be considered having really good dungeon / exterior design? I can't think of one sadly. Unless we take things like Prey or System Shock 2 into the equation.

 

[Humbaba]

Bruh fuck this Endgame quest, like I'm gonna sit here and grind out recruiting units especially as Lich when recruitment growth is in my ass and mercenaries cost a fortune. Not getting the necessary events either. Doesn't help that morale is bugged to hell as well. Off to Threshold then. Will post my impressions, which all of you are undoubtedly dying to hear when I'm done.

 

[Goldschmidt]

Not going to read 600 pages. Now that the legion of codex beta testers have finally played the game, answer me this; "How's the game, folks?"

"Is it a quality product from engineering standpoint OR is it imbalanced buggy popamole?"

 

[Humbaba]

Not going to read 600 pages. Now that the legion of codex beta testers have finally played the game, answer me this; "How's the game, folks?"

"Is it a quality product from engineering standpoint OR is it imbalanced buggy popamole?"

Still feels unpolished tbh. Completely playable though. Will hold off on final judgement until I've finished my first playthrough. Unless the ending sucks shit, I'll do at least 3 more. Maybe by that time the game will be relatively bug free.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Not going to read 600 pages. Now that the legion of codex beta testers have finally played the game, answer me this; "How's the game, folks?"

"Is it a quality product from engineering standpoint OR is it imbalanced buggy popamole?"

It's worse than the first half of Kingmaker. It's better than the second half of Kingmaker.
But I still have to finish it, so maybe real shit is still ahead of me.

 

[Jaedar]

Not going to read 600 pages. Now that the legion of codex beta testers have finally played the game, answer me this; "How's the game, folks?"

"Is it a quality product from engineering standpoint OR is it imbalanced buggy popamole?"

It's good, but they are still actively patching it, and there are a decent amount of bugs. If you don't mind waiting, I'd say buy it in another few months. It will probably never be a quality engineering product(TM), but few truly good RPGs are.

I don't really think it will ever be significantly less buggy than it is now, but they might implement some more QoL stuff if you're lucky.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Not going to read 600 pages. Now that the legion of codex beta testers have finally played the game, answer me this; "How's the game, folks?"

"Is it a quality product from engineering standpoint OR is it imbalanced buggy popamole?"

It's feature complete and suffers from the oversights and instability inherent to their over-ambition. Come back when the full gamut of DLC has dropped and I guarantee that you will have a more stable, cohesive and ultimately enjoyable experience than those of us who were willing to dig into this game's earlier builds.

 

[Parabalus]

wait someone thought Kingmaker testing was time consuming wtf

The unskippable dialogue is horrible, as are the multiple black screens, and the game going through the results one by one, again unskippably.

you gotta be a heavy rester to have ever noticed that shit

It's annoying from the first time you rest. Resting in an open area is the worst, because of the slow walking speeds to towards each PCs camp site, dungeons are slightly more tolerable since the mats are closer together and the map is best, but still bad.

 

[Sunri]

wait someone thought Kingmaker testing was time consuming wtf

The unskippable dialogue is horrible, as are the multiple black screens, and the game going through the results one by one, again unskippably.

you gotta be a heavy rester to have ever noticed that shit

It's annoying from the first time you rest. Resting in an open area is the worst, because of the slow walking speeds to towards each PCs camp site, dungeons are slightly more tolerable since the mats are closer together and the map is best, but still bad.

Simple solution, don't rest, there are demons to smite.

 

[Parabalus]

wait someone thought Kingmaker testing was time consuming wtf

The unskippable dialogue is horrible, as are the multiple black screens, and the game going through the results one by one, again unskippably.

you gotta be a heavy rester to have ever noticed that shit

It's annoying from the first time you rest. Resting in an open area is the worst, because of the slow walking speeds to towards each PCs camp site, dungeons are slightly more tolerable since the mats are closer together and the map is best, but still bad.

Simple solution, don't rest, there are demons to smite.

You have to rest because of the exhaustion system. The best option is resting before entering the area after getting exhausted travelling.

 

[Whisper]

wait someone thought Kingmaker testing was time consuming wtf

The unskippable dialogue is horrible, as are the multiple black screens, and the game going through the results one by one, again unskippably.

you gotta be a heavy rester to have ever noticed that shit

It's annoying from the first time you rest. Resting in an open area is the worst, because of the slow walking speeds to towards each PCs camp site, dungeons are slightly more tolerable since the mats are closer together and the map is best, but still bad.

Simple solution, don't rest, there are demons to smite.

You have to rest because of the exhaustion system. The best option is resting before entering the area after getting exhausted travelling.

You can remove exhausted status without resting.

 

[Parabalus]

wait someone thought Kingmaker testing was time consuming wtf

The unskippable dialogue is horrible, as are the multiple black screens, and the game going through the results one by one, again unskippably.

you gotta be a heavy rester to have ever noticed that shit

It's annoying from the first time you rest. Resting in an open area is the worst, because of the slow walking speeds to towards each PCs camp site, dungeons are slightly more tolerable since the mats are closer together and the map is best, but still bad.

Simple solution, don't rest, there are demons to smite.

You have to rest because of the exhaustion system. The best option is resting before entering the area after getting exhausted travelling.

You can remove exhausted status without resting.

Removing it doesn't reset the timer, at least try it beforehand.

 

[Whisper]

wait someone thought Kingmaker testing was time consuming wtf

The unskippable dialogue is horrible, as are the multiple black screens, and the game going through the results one by one, again unskippably.

you gotta be a heavy rester to have ever noticed that shit

It's annoying from the first time you rest. Resting in an open area is the worst, because of the slow walking speeds to towards each PCs camp site, dungeons are slightly more tolerable since the mats are closer together and the map is best, but still bad.

Simple solution, don't rest, there are demons to smite.

You have to rest because of the exhaustion system. The best option is resting before entering the area after getting exhausted travelling.

You can remove exhausted status without resting.

Removing it doesn't reset the timer, at least try it beforehand.

What timer? If you cast it when you enter dungeon or quest area there is no timer.

 

[Jaedar]

Removing it doesn't reset the timer, at least try it beforehand.

Correct, but it usually gives you enough leeway to beat one dungeon. Although you can get fucked if there's an athletics check or something that takes 5 mins to resolve, but those aren't that common.

 

[Grunker]

On a sidenote aren't you a pillars of eternity fanboy? Or at least someone who loved pillars a lot...? So, I take you liked more dungeons in POE1/2 than Kingmaker?

Fanboy seems a harsh word considering how much I bashed the story, setting, characters and C&C of Pillars. But yes, I really, really liked the gameplay and the itemization in the final version of the game.

Most of its dungeons have the exact same problem as Kingmaker's though; they're almost nothing but vehicles for rooms with fights in them. Great dungeon design seems a lost art. Endless Dungeons of Od Nua is one of the biggest jokes in dungeon history, it's so worthless.

 

[Grunker]

superior forgotten realms lore

No

you're comparing turd from different species

Durlag's Tower is a good dungeon. Simple as.

So is the troll dungeon in kingmaker, now what?

The troll dungeon is a dozen rooms with some fights and a few extremely light puzzles. The entire dungeon is soundly beaten by just the Four Warders-level; it has more interesting context, fights and interactions than any dungeon in Kingmaker.

That shit youtube channel 'Extra Credits' has an episode solely on Durlag's Dungeon, and while the narrator is an insufferable twat, the video does highlight a lot of what the dungeon did that modern dungeons just don't bother with, Kingmaker's included.

 

[LannTheStupid]

"How's the game, folks?"

Don't play it, it's bad.

 

[Fedora Master]

Oh there's a leak about a secret boss you can find, if only Desiderius was here to tell us how to cheese it:

Spoiler