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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

ArchAngel

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superior forgotten realms lore
No

you're comparing turd from different species

Durlag's Tower is a good dungeon. Simple as.

So is the troll dungeon in kingmaker, now what?

The troll dungeon is a dozen rooms with some fights and a few extremely light puzzles. The entire dungeon is soundly beaten by just the Four Warders-level; it has more interesting context, fights and interactions than any dungeon in Kingmaker.

That shit youtube channel 'Extra Credits' has an episode solely on Durlag's Dungeon, and while the narrator is an insufferable twat, the video does highlight a lot of what the dungeon did that modern dungeons just don't bother with, Kingmaker's included.
I guess we have different expectations. Best dungeon in a long time was Lich one in Kingmaker because you got stuck inside until you finished it and in addition to all the trash fights it had some cool fights as well (some optional like with Demons). Puzzles are not fun in a cRPG for most players.
At least devs here were smart enough to put Enigma as a optional dungeon even if they fucked it up and connected it with a companion's quest.
 

Parabalus

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Mar 23, 2015
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Removing it doesn't reset the timer, at least try it beforehand.
Correct, but it usually gives you enough leeway to beat one dungeon. Although you can get fucked if there's an athletics check or something that takes 5 mins to resolve, but those aren't that common.

You can remove it again.
And yes, it is enough to beat dungeon/clear area.

It's useful to condense 3-4 rests into one, especially since fatigue is staggered between PCs due to different stats.

Or are you playing through entire chapters without rests?

The best resting spot is your room, straight skip to black with no role assignment or other bullshit.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Puzzles are not fun in a cRPG for most players.
Some light puzzles have been a constant staple of cRPGs since the dawn of time. Wrath has some really obtuse ones though, with terrible interface and feedback, so I admittedly looked up a lot of solutions online.
 

Daidre

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
At least I have got an achievement and now I can rest spam as much as I want to)
ZIxaTcR.png
Well, like many other things it is a bit bugged and I've got it in the mid of Chapter 5 after getting all crusade stats to 8. No need to complete the game on the same save.

Now I intend to do Unfair run with Angel-Oracle and from what I've already tested Heavenly Host ability to share Sword of Heaven on the party is so hellishly bugged that it breaks Sword of Heaven completely (buff only applied to the last party member in a group), making it unusable:cry:

Am I delirious or most of the Angel holy damage spells not only NOT halved on failed save but also ignore SR and do not require range touch? So I don't need Spell Penetration feats or Precise Shot or Casting Stat all that high? From what it looks like right now, you could build for melee gish in first chapters and easily switch to Bolt of Justice spam later with only metamagic feats required to get most out of them.
 

Humbaba

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Ok so the finale got off to a bad start. For one, I was expecting a big assault like Drezen but it is only your party and like 5 allies in total who contribute nothing. This whole gauntlet is only hard because you cannot rest in between and as a lich with undead companions that doubly sucks and means you have to do a no death run here. I fortunately only lost Kestoglyr when I made it to that walking cheat code Khorramzade. For the first and only time ever in this game or any other I had to turn down the difficulty to get past his ascendant elemental 50d6 chain lightning bullshit to which there is literally no counterplay. Definitely needs a rework if you ask me.
 

ArchAngel

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Ok so the finale got off to a bad start. For one, I was expecting a big assault like Drezen but it is only your party and like 5 allies in total who contribute nothing. This whole gauntlet is only hard because you cannot rest in between and as a lich with undead companions that doubly sucks and means you have to do a no death run here. I fortunately only lost Kestoglyr when I made it to that walking cheat code Khorramzade. For the first and only time ever in this game or any other I had to turn down the difficulty to get past his ascendant elemental 50d6 chain lightning bullshit to which there is literally no counterplay. Definitely needs a rework if you ask me.
Counterplay is to run away as soon as he cast the buff, it only lasts 3 or 5 rounds or something. Or you can tank it like my Angel Party did. 3 characters evaded, rest got hit for 190 damage because they saved and survived and got mass healed by Sosiel on his turn. And for Kestoglyr, you need to take Last Stand for your melee undead tanks. Or use that Lich spell that paralyses you instead of kills you once per cast.
 

Humbaba

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Counterplay is to run away as soon as he cast the buff, it only lasts 3 or 5 rounds or something. Or you can tank it like my Angel Party did. 3 characters evaded, rest got hit for 190 damage because they saved and survived and got mass healed by Sosiel on his turn. And for Kestoglyr, you need to take Last Stand for your melee undead tanks. Or use that Lich spell that paralyses you instead of kills you once per cast.
Last stand and deny death were long burned and running away is a complete meme because he just comes after you and 2d2 rounds is all he needs to blow you up. You can't tarpit him with summons because he blows them up too. Even if you outlast ascendant elemental, his lightning does so much damage that it tears right through protection from energy. Not to mention the Vorlikai and Vavakia who will get you if Khorramzade doesn't. A mass evader build is the only thing I could see taking him on but that's not counterplay as much as it is counterbuilding.
 

ArchAngel

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Counterplay is to run away as soon as he cast the buff, it only lasts 3 or 5 rounds or something. Or you can tank it like my Angel Party did. 3 characters evaded, rest got hit for 190 damage because they saved and survived and got mass healed by Sosiel on his turn. And for Kestoglyr, you need to take Last Stand for your melee undead tanks. Or use that Lich spell that paralyses you instead of kills you once per cast.
Last stand and deny death were long burned and running away is a complete meme because he just comes after you and 2d2 rounds is all he needs to blow you up. You can't tarpit him with summons because he blows them up too. Even if you outlast ascendant elemental, his lightning does so much damage that it tears right through protection from energy. Not to mention the Vorlikai and Vavakia who will get you if Khorramzade doesn't. A mass evader build is the only thing I could see taking him on but that's not counterplay as much as it is counterbuilding.
I don't have a clue what you are talking about. On what difficulty are you playing?
On my Lich/Necro run I ran away, came back and kicked his ass easily. After that they nerfed him because in past he could cast 2x those Chain Lightnings. It was certain death for your main character.

Now on Angel run everyone had good saves, one character had improved evasion, another evasion ring and Battlecat had improved evasion as well.
 

Humbaba

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I don't have a clue what you are talking about. On what difficulty are you playing?
On my Lich/Necro run I ran away, came back and kicked his ass easily. After that they nerfed him because in past he could cast 2x those Chain Lightnings. It was certain death for your main character.

Now on Angel run everyone had good saves, one character had improved evasion, another evasion ring and Battlecat had improved evasion as well.
I'm on core. You can't run circles around him on account of his goons being in the way. I did once try starting the combat then running away, waiting til it ended and then starting it again but the thing is his thunderous rage just restarts again. Your evasion probably did most of the work here.
 

ArchAngel

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I don't have a clue what you are talking about. On what difficulty are you playing?
On my Lich/Necro run I ran away, came back and kicked his ass easily. After that they nerfed him because in past he could cast 2x those Chain Lightnings. It was certain death for your main character.

Now on Angel run everyone had good saves, one character had improved evasion, another evasion ring and Battlecat had improved evasion as well.
I'm on core. You can't run circles around him on account of his goons being in the way. I did once try starting the combat then running away, waiting til it ended and then starting it again but the thing is his thunderous rage just restarts again. Your evasion probably did most of the work here.
No, on my Lich run he didn't restart it. I just turned off TB, ran away to start of map and then ran back again and killed him easily on Core. I didn't have evasion on Lich. Get both Lighting Resistance and Energy Resistance: Lightning.
Also with Lich you can buff your temporary life with offensive Lich spells, you can have over 500 life. And that fight is last until the camp, you can lose all your guys except your main guy.
 

Daidre

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
The thing is 75 is really a huge number, especially considering we can finish latest act in 4-5 hours.
I did act 6 in ~3 hours with one rest and Ascension to the boot. It was my first true complete run, with Azata Sorceress (Wierd + Shout + Hellfire Ray). Imho, pretty nice chapter, much better than extra chapter from Kingmaker. And I did not had any combat-related difficulties on Hard after 1,5k+ of playtime across many, many incomplete runs.
I was kinda afraid of secret ending battle
Deskari + Baphomet. But turned out they are both summoned in severely weakened state so I just bitchslapped them in two rounds.
Hadn't even encountered any serious bugs I was even more afraid of. All three big dungeons in last chapter are currently in a good state, all ending slides corresponded to the game events and everything went smooth in Crusade Management.
I only had one annoying story-related bug where
Staunton came back to life screaming vengeance at long-dead Minagho and was restarting his dialogue again and again until I conceded and gave him eternal rest(
 

Humbaba

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Staunton came back to life screaming vengeance at long-dead Minagho and was restarting his dialogue again and again until I conceded and gave him eternal rest(
Had something similar when I obliterated Finnean's consciousness but he kept chiming in after that
 

Humbaba

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And so my first playthrough and the adventures of John Moblus the death knight come to an end.

Areelu is the worst final boss in history. The RPG equivalent of Jinpachi. Literally a slot machine DPS race, not to mention her arena being essentially a narrow hallway for maximum clashing rocks, prismatic spray and firestorm efficiency. Phase 1 is pretty easy provided you don't get geeked immediately by her spamming sunburst but phase 2 is literally impossible on core because you get literally stunlocked every milisecond. Second time I had to turn down the difficulty. If you beat her legit on core with RTWP please tell me how, because this is fucking bedlam.

All in all though, in my opinion after 20 years, BG2 has finally been matched at the very least. Wrathfinder could've even surpassed BG2 because it does a number of things better but the overall lack of polish and lacklustre act 5 still hold it back. Tbf BG2 also sputtered out towards the end but at the very least Jon Irenicus was not complete cancer. Ending slides were weak too and not even voiced. I guess they're saving the big finale for that DLC campaign they said they'd do.

Crusade mode is fine in the beginning but in the mid to late game suffers from EXTREME numbers bloat. Magic is also completely fucking OP. A wizard general can clear armies by himself. HoMM3 was never balanced but compared to this it could step dance of a knife's edge. I do like though how crusade mode is intertwined with regular adventure mode for example by providing artifacts. Objectively good game design.

Difficulty wise it is a lot more even than Kingmaker. I played both on core and Wrathfinder does not really have any extreme difficulty spikes, with maybe the exception of Blackwater. Maybe I just went there too early idk. Also beat both without any buildfagging whatsoever, though I will concede that I would've probably had an easier time if I did. Though the only times I had to turn down the difficulty were with Khorramzade and Areelu, the only two enemies in the game that actively cheat. I managed to beat Deskari, Chivarro, Minagho etc. and other optional hard fights well enough aside from that. In the early game though the game has a bad habit of throwing stat and level drain at you when you have no way of dealing with it reliably. Brimoraks are also right bastards before you get access to fire resistance. The game gets easier as you progress in levels but that sort of difficulty curve is normal for cRPGs.

Casters are still weaksauce, which I will chalk up to the absence of defensive spells like protection from magical weapons and the like. The devs know this. They had Zacharius, a lich, resort to making himself huge like xbox and beating you to death with his stick instead of using timestop and other nasty shit like Kangaxx because the ruleset simply does not support that stuff. The only dangerous casters are those that cheat, i.e. the Gallus at threshold who can fart out 22 cones of cold a second, Khorramzade who just ignores your immunities and Areelu who is the biggest spam fest I've ever seen.

At all levels, martial enemies are way more dangerous, mostly because they can crit you for about 300 and take you out immediately. Last stand is an essential mythic ability for that very reason. I think on future playthroughs I will turn crits off though as to make combat less swingy. BG had helmets for that specific reason after all.

Went lich on this one and tbh it was a bit underwhelming. You don't become a lich as much as you buy a lot of things for your husbando so that he can hand you your power. Having a mentor is cool and thematically appropriate but I expected to like acquire dark knowledge and then turn myself into a lich with Zacharius' help but he does all of the work essentially. I just build him a nice house to live in. Your skeletal champion is a bit of a third wheel but if you make him a bard he can at least hold a couple a spells for you. I did like though how lich was not just the designated caster mythic path and there were lots of nice things for martial classes. My PC was a Gendarme and things like death weapon are pretty neat. Undead companions are pretty cool and immune to lots of bullshit but they only revive after a rest which is a bit of a curse in a game where you're incentivised to rest as little as possible. They also don't offer much narratively when compared to regular companions.

Writing's decidedly average and extremely wordy. Voice acting suffers from bad or no direction. The talent itself is there but they're given absolutely no guidance on delivery. Regill's VA however is a fucking pro and makes everyone else look even worse. His lines are like 30% quieter than everyone else's though which is weird. Deskari also sounds baller but he's barely in the game. Galfrey's VA can't do a british accent to save her life and no one told her, that poor woman. She also called Staunton "Stantion" which made me lol.

Skipped a couple of things on my first playthrough, like the secrets of creation quest because I like my first playthroughs blind and if I have to look it up then I'm not doing it. I will allow myself to metagame on subsequent playthroughs though. cRPGs are best when metagamed anyway. Thinking about going Deliverer Angel/Legend for my second go.

That's just a couple of thoughts. In total I like the game a lot. Some bumfuck slav studio has succeeded where Obsidian has been failing since its inception.
 

ArchAngel

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Narrative and combat wise game is not even close to BG2. Exploration wise it is worse than BG1 or Kingmaker. But it is still a very fun game and best we got since IE games.

For build porn people it is probably best game ever.
 

Humbaba

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Oof just looked up all the hoops you have to jump through for the ascension ending. Not feeling like doing all of that right now. Back to the Deliverer Angel into Legend. Gonna try a reach weapon trip build I think.
 

ArchAngel

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Mar 16, 2015
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Anyone knows what is with that Kobold that you meet in Act 2 on its own map but by act 3 it disappears?!
 

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