Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Humbaba]

Pretty cool how Azata changes the midnight fane dungeon. Good to see chaotics getting shit done.

Spoiler

And boy do they get shit done. Aivu's surprise guerilla strike results in half the dungeon getting stomped by the free syrian army free crusaders, eliminating almost every otherwise mandatory encounter. Maybe we should put her in charge. Minagho doesn't get away either but I chose to spare her and sic her on her former bosses because it felt fitting to the Azata spirit. Let's hope there's gonna be no backstabbing.

But christ Galfrey is a such a cunt. Didn't tell her a word about the lexicon, so that dumbass can go die in Iz.

What exactly changes with Azata in this dungeon?

It's in the spoiler if you wanna know.

 

[ArchAngel]

It's just trial and error domino.

It isn't, there are clues to get you started, for example when you start the puzzle you usually put in some symbols on the edge of the grid. Those symbols tell you there must be "x number of symbol y" within that row/column. The presentation of the puzzle however is awful and makes it much less enjoyable than it would be if it was within a UI which was clearly designed for it.

The sacred lands puzzle is cancer too. Hope owlcat's gonna implement some real puzzles next time.

The Sacred Lands puzzle is the 1 puzzle that I actually enjoyed because the UI of the game does not get in the way of solving the puzzle. Its a fairly easy and simple puzzle which can be solved with some basic logic and doesn't take longer than like 2 minutes to complete it. Maybe 5 if its your first time doing it and you are unsure if you want all of the platforms up or all of the platforms down.

Did you do the two puzzles in demon city where you need to rotate some platforms? I tried that shit, quit and later forgot to check net for solutions. Feels like it is part of some quest and it will not work if you are outside of it.

 

[Efe]

you mean the ones with one or two buttons that rotate platforms to make a bridge?
its a stretch to call that a puzzle

 

[Nikanuur]

Hellfire and Coldray can crit?!

 

[ArchAngel]

Did you do the two puzzles in demon city where you need to rotate some platforms? I tried that shit, quit and later forgot to check net for solutions. Feels like it is part of some quest and it will not work if you are outside of it.

You need to

Spoiler

Move someone on the platform to keep it from moving once it's in position while you fiddle with the remaining platforms. They're not related to any quest whatsoever.

I think I tried that and my characters would not move. From what I remember separate parts would not align perfectly with where you stand.

 

[Haplo]

Plus there's "top" side and "bottom" side (with spikes, that can be barely visible).
Make sure that the "top" side is facing up.

 

[Sharpedge]

It's just trial and error domino.

It isn't, there are clues to get you started, for example when you start the puzzle you usually put in some symbols on the edge of the grid. Those symbols tell you there must be "x number of symbol y" within that row/column. The presentation of the puzzle however is awful and makes it much less enjoyable than it would be if it was within a UI which was clearly designed for it.

The sacred lands puzzle is cancer too. Hope owlcat's gonna implement some real puzzles next time.

The Sacred Lands puzzle is the 1 puzzle that I actually enjoyed because the UI of the game does not get in the way of solving the puzzle. Its a fairly easy and simple puzzle which can be solved with some basic logic and doesn't take longer than like 2 minutes to complete it. Maybe 5 if its your first time doing it and you are unsure if you want all of the platforms up or all of the platforms down.

Did you do the two puzzles in demon city where you need to rotate some platforms? I tried that shit, quit and later forgot to check net for solutions. Feels like it is part of some quest and it will not work if you are outside of it.

I did yes, but I agree with Efe on that, its a stretch to call it a puzzle.

 

[Sharpedge]

It's just trial and error domino.

It isn't, there are clues to get you started, for example when you start the puzzle you usually put in some symbols on the edge of the grid. Those symbols tell you there must be "x number of symbol y" within that row/column. The presentation of the puzzle however is awful and makes it much less enjoyable than it would be if it was within a UI which was clearly designed for it.

The sacred lands puzzle is cancer too. Hope owlcat's gonna implement some real puzzles next time.

The Sacred Lands puzzle is the 1 puzzle that I actually enjoyed because the UI of the game does not get in the way of solving the puzzle. Its a fairly easy and simple puzzle which can be solved with some basic logic and doesn't take longer than like 2 minutes to complete it. Maybe 5 if its your first time doing it and you are unsure if you want all of the platforms up or all of the platforms down.

Yeah there's hints, but whether or not you put the right piece in the right spot is pure guesswork. And the UI gets extremely in the way in sacred lands because those mobile game hand buttons keep covering up the colors. The most cancerous thing is having no idea whether the blocks need to be all the way up or down, if you guessed correctly then congratulations but that's all it is, a guess. Compare these horrible "puzzles" to just a single one from Grimrock 2 for example and you'll see the difference between an actual puzzle and a boring guessing game.

If you move off of the platform in the sacred lands puzzle, then the UI stops covering it. Just standing on the bridges rather than on the platforms themselves prevents this from being an issue. There is nothing "cancerous" about that guess either, considering it takes like 2 minutes to completely configure them one way or the other.

Anyhow, RPGs are not puzzle games, so I am not expecting puzzles in the way of Myst. Puzzles like the Sacred land are fine and the other puzzles would have been ok if the UI for placing pieces in and removing them was less clunky.

 

[Humbaba]

Did you do the two puzzles in demon city where you need to rotate some platforms? I tried that shit, quit and later forgot to check net for solutions. Feels like it is part of some quest and it will not work if you are outside of it.

As others have said you need to align every bit one by one and have a party member stand on every bit so it stops rotating. Not quest related and the rewards aren't very good unless you use scimitars because you can find a good one there. I would still call it a puzzle albeit a bad one. Those things are nothing new in gaming tbh, older games have a really bad habit of including extremely obtuse puzzles to pad the runtime and sell strategy guides, so I guess owlcat is just keeping it classic.

Hellfire and Coldray can crit?!

They can and they will, which is why you should build Ember to be a nuker. She can get hellfire ray on two seperate spell levels, meaning that with abundant casting she can have like 20 servings combined of that shit. Bombs can crit too afaik, which makes Mutasafen a real dick.

If you move off of the platform in the sacred lands puzzle, then the UI stops covering it. Just standing on the bridges rather than on the platforms themselves prevents this from being an issue. There is nothing "cancerous" about that guess either, considering it takes like 2 minutes to completely configure them one way or the other.

Anyhow, RPGs are not puzzle games, so I am not expecting puzzles in the way of Myst. Puzzles like the Sacred land are fine and the other puzzles would have been ok if the UI for placing pieces in and removing them was less clunky.

Sorry but "if you do this very specific thing it solves the problem that shouldn't be present in the first place" is not a point in the game's favour. Seems like you guessed better than I did on that one and somehow blasted through it in 2 minutes but I've seen better puzzles at any rate. Of course RPGs aren't puzzlers but that's no excuse. If you choose to include puzzles you may as well make them good.

 

[ArchAngel]

Did you do the two puzzles in demon city where you need to rotate some platforms? I tried that shit, quit and later forgot to check net for solutions. Feels like it is part of some quest and it will not work if you are outside of it.

As others have said you need to align every bit one by one and have a party member stand on every bit so it stops rotating. Not quest related and the rewards aren't very good unless you use scimitars because you can find a good one there. I would still call it a puzzle albeit a bad one. Those things are nothing new in gaming tbh, older games have a really bad habit of including extremely obtuse puzzles to pad the runtime and sell strategy guides, so I guess owlcat is just keeping it classic.

Hellfire and Coldray can crit?!

They can and they will, which is why you should build Ember to be a nuker. She can get hellfire ray on two seperate spell levels, meaning that with abundant casting she can have like 20 servings combined of that shit. Bombs can crit too afaik, which makes Mutasafen a real dick.

If you move off of the platform in the sacred lands puzzle, then the UI stops covering it. Just standing on the bridges rather than on the platforms themselves prevents this from being an issue. There is nothing "cancerous" about that guess either, considering it takes like 2 minutes to completely configure them one way or the other.

Anyhow, RPGs are not puzzle games, so I am not expecting puzzles in the way of Myst. Puzzles like the Sacred land are fine and the other puzzles would have been ok if the UI for placing pieces in and removing them was less clunky.

Sorry but "if you do this very specific thing it solves the problem that shouldn't be present in the first place" is not a point in the game's favour. Seems like you guessed better than I did on that one and somehow blasted through it in 2 minutes but I've seen better puzzles at any rate. Of course RPGs aren't puzzlers but that's no excuse. If you choose to include puzzles you may as well make them good.

I don't use both her Hellfire spells. But I got Bolster and Empower so I can cast it as lvl 6, Bolstered is lvl 7, Empowered is lvl 8 and both is lvl 9

 

[Sharpedge]

Seems like you guessed better than I did on that one and somehow blasted through it in 2 minutes but I've seen better puzzles at any rate.

There was no guessing involved since the colours correspond to the colour of a rock, I just mentally made a note of each switch I would need to flip in order to reach an outcome where they are all in 1 state and then went along and flipped them accordingly.

 

[Humbaba]

I don't use both her Hellfire spells. But I got Bolster and Empower so I can cast it as lvl 6, Bolstered is lvl 7, Empowered is lvl 8 and both is lvl 9

Well if it works

There was no guessing involved since the colours correspond to the colour of a rock, I just mentally made a note of each switch I would need to flip in order to reach an outcome where they are all in 1 state and then went along and flipped them accordingly.

And you guessed correctly the state in which they needed to be in. You were just as likely to assume wrong and focus on getting the blocks down instead of up.

 

[Nikanuur]

They can and they will, which is why you should build Ember to be a nuker. She can get hellfire ray on two seperate spell levels, meaning that with abundant casting she can have like 20 servings combined of that shit. Bombs can crit too afaik, which makes Mutasafen a real dick..

Strangely-enough, I've noticed a spell-crit only recently, though "Ember-the-Hellfire-Minigunnist" has been with me for at least the whole Abyss chapter. And to be honest:

 

[LannTheStupid]

So i have come up with an amusing observation these days, mostly due to prolific activity of one forum member with less than a year of history. I think he represents a typical Western player well enough.

Kingmaker was released with game breaking bugs, with a very complicated combat system that was thoroughly implemented, and with encounters that were reasonable, but happened to be game stopping. The first fight with the assassin in the prologue; the spider swarms in the fangberry cave; the first electrical nobility in the Old Sycamore. Owlcat Games were bombarded with bad reviews for hard fights, complex systems, trick enemies, timed quests and the strategic layer that could ruin the run. The Kingmaker's audience remained a niche at least until the latest Epic giveaway.

Owlcat Games learned their lessons and made changes. They added a lot of UI improvements and tutorials to explain the Pathfinder role playing system. Losing the crusade will not lose the game anymore. The crusade difficulty does not scale up to Unfair - the maximum is always "normal". All the timers are optional, and the game cannot be lost due to poor timing. At no point in the prologue the main hero has to fight alone, and for the starting party of 3 there is Anevia, who is immortal and one-shots everything. Also, the first enemy that can be considered tricky is a Shadow Demon, who happens at level 4-5.

The game has become simpler, more accessible, and the Steam reviews and sales followed. The audience expanded, and, according to Sturgeon's law, 90% of this new audience are crap. Now Wrath is criticized for complex puzzles, for "inclusivity", and for a completely optional enemy in the second half of the game.

I see a positive feedback loop here, which some might call "a death spiral". Every simplification of the game brings in a new audience that requires more simplification which would bring even more new audience. I am far from calling Wrath a "dumbing down", but it is simpler to understand and more accessible than Kingmaker.

What's next? Which iteration will become "dumbed down" for good? The 3d? The 4th? When will we have to jump ship and look for another Underrail developer who would be at the beginning of this inevitable death spiral?

Also remember, that, as I have written after the interview with Mr. Mishulin, it seems that the Owlcat top creative minds are purposefully guarded from direct interaction with the gamers. So they, probably, are having a synopsis of the general opinion, which means they are made to follow the dumbest part of the herd.

 

[Humbaba]

Your point being?

 

[Whisper]

So i have come up with an amusing observation these days, mostly due to prolific activity of one forum member with less than a year of history. I think he represents a typical Western player well enough.

Kingmaker was released with game breaking bugs, with a very complicated combat system that was thoroughly implemented, and with encounters that were reasonable, but happened to be game stopping. The first fight with the assassin in the prologue; the spider swarms in the fangberry cave; the first electrical nobility in the Old Sycamore. Owlcat Games were bombarded with bad reviews for hard fights, complex systems, trick enemies, timed quests and the strategic layer that could ruin the run. The Kingmaker's audience remained a niche at least until the latest Epic giveaway.

Owlcat Games learned their lessons and made changes. They added a lot of UI improvements and tutorials to explain the Pathfinder role playing system. Losing the crusade will not lose the game anymore. The crusade difficulty does not scale up to Unfair - the maximum is always "normal". All the timers are optional, and the game cannot be lost due to poor timing. At no point in the prologue the main hero has to fight alone, and for the starting party of 3 there is Anevia, who is immortal and one-shots everything. Also, the first enemy that can be considered tricky is a Shadow Demon, who happens at level 4-5.

The game has become simpler, more accessible, and the Steam reviews and sales followed. The audience expanded, and, according to Sturgeon's law, 90% of this new audience are crap. Now Wrath is criticized for complex puzzles, for "inclusivity", and for a completely optional enemy in the second half of the game.

I see a positive feedback loop here, which some might call "a death spiral". Every simplification of the game brings in a new audience that requires more simplification which would bring even more new audience. I am far from calling Wrath a "dumbing down", but it is simpler to understand and more accessible than Kingmaker.

What's next? Which iteration will become "dumbed down" for good? The 3d? The 4th? When will we have to jump ship and look for another Underrail developer who would be at the beginning of this inevitable death spiral?

Also remember, that, as I have written after the interview with Mr. Mishulin, it seems that the Owlcat top creative minds are purposefully guarded from direct interaction with the gamers. So they, probably, are having a synopsis of the general opinion, which means they are made to follow the dumbest part of the herd.

Where is interview with Mishulin, link please

 

[LannTheStupid]

Where is interview with Mishulin, link please

Nowhere. There is an audio file that I made from the recording. Look through my posts, it might still be available.

 

[Fedora Master]

Now Wrath is criticized for complex puzzles, for "inclusivity", and for a completely optional enemy in the second half of the game.

An oversimplified and partially dishonest take.

 

[Humbaba]

Now Wrath is criticized for complex puzzles, for "inclusivity", and for a completely optional enemy in the second half of the game.

An oversimplified and partially dishonest take.

A strawman in other words

 

[Fedora Master]

Now Wrath is criticized for complex puzzles, for "inclusivity", and for a completely optional enemy in the second half of the game.

An oversimplified and partially dishonest take.

A strawman in other words

The puzzles are annoying and often needlessly obtuse, not "complex". There is nothing complex about solving a jigsaw puzzle with barely discernable pieces. So the guy is right, but failed to grasp the actual issue.

And I very much doubt there was any complaining about the woke shit outside of 4ch and this place. Because Owlcat ban anyone who criticizes it on their forum.

 

[Humbaba]

Oof christ Aivu trying to get me killed here by wiping out the slave market. Had to break out the legendary proportions on this one. Felt right thematically though. The loot's not worth it btw unless you use fauchards and want a new pair of +5 bracers.

 

[Humbaba]

Fucking lol

Wenduag: "I'm a gross mutant and everyone makes fun of us banging ;______;"
PC: "Fuck em, I think you're pretty"
Wenduag "Eh, maybe you're just a pervert"

The writing does have its moments.

 

[Nikanuur]

Does anyone know how to stop the game from creating a potion during the camping? I mean, once I've selected a potion, I can only change it to different one. Can't seem to cancel the potion creating altogether. I *have* to create a potion during the camping or change the character to one that doesn't meet the requirement. But that is not good, because other characters don't have that much skill for cooking. Wtf :D

 

[Humbaba]

Is there good loot in the hidden abode? That encounter is a bit cancer and idk if the hassle of beating it is worth it.

EDIT: That question was answered like 400 pages ago. You get the CHA tome and a cold iron bar. One is redundant with the +2 everything potion you get later and there are plenty other bars around. In conclusion, not worth the hassle.

Does anyone know how to stop the game from creating a potion during the camping? I mean, once I've selected a potion, I can only change it to different one. Can't seem to cancel the potion creating altogether. I *have* to create a potion during the camping or change the character to one that doesn't meet the requirement. But that is not good, because other characters don't have that much skill for cooking. Wtf :D

Can't you just deselect the people in the cooking slot? I wouldn't know tbh I never cook anything.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Does anyone know how to stop the game from creating a potion during the camping? I mean, once I've selected a potion, I can only change it to different one. Can't seem to cancel the potion creating altogether. I *have* to create a potion during the camping or change the character to one that doesn't meet the requirement. But that is not good, because other characters don't have that much skill for cooking. Wtf :D

Can't you just deselect the people in the cooking slot? I wouldn't know tbh I never cook anything.

Yeah, just reassign your guy. The potion doesn't make itself.