Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Heroic Liberator]

Spiders are just the eight leg crawlers in the furry space.

Still cooler than cats/foxes/rats. Only a scorpion can hope to match ALL THIS.

Plebs, all of you.

Fishfolk, best folk.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

CRAB PEOPLE.

CRAB PEOPLE.

LOOK LIKE CRAB.

WALK LIKE PEOPLE.

 

[Roguey]

Perfectly understandable, however, considering.

Thanks a lot, Sawyer.

inXile took advantage of it twice though.

 

[Luckmann]

I'm not sure if I've mentioned it here, but I wish they'd opted for Grippli vs. Tengu vs. Ysoki ("Ratfolk") instead of Ratfolk vs. Catfolk vs. Foxfags.

It'd just have been more interesting, and I'd have been genuinely torn. It would also have higher meme-potential since tengu are popular, all the furries and warhams would back ratlings, while 4chinks would lose their minds over pepeeeeee.

Plus, they're all cool.

Perfectly understandable, however, considering.

Thanks a lot, Sawyer.

inXile took advantage of it twice though.

Yeah, thanks a lot, (((Fargo))).

 

[Daidre]

Plebs, all of you.

Fishfolk, best folk.

I am afraid I played to much Deadfire to agree with you. Severe case of overdose on shark people here.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Perfectly understandable, however, considering.

Thanks a lot, Sawyer.

inXile took advantage of it twice though.

Fargo managed to nail the right demographic: disposable income, casual enough gamers in order to be gullible

 

[Lacrymas]

Cool, another RPG in the bag. When are Owlcat going to make our accounts so we get to vote on rats?

 

[Drowed]

Also, I don't understand the hate towards PoE-II. Well, besides being the Codex autism syndrome. The main story of the game is appalling, but the only reason for it is trying to stretch the tale that is already told and finished.

Yes and no. Yes, the story of the first POE might be considered closed - to such an extent that you could do POE2 with another completely unrelated protagonist and have essentially the same plot. Maybe a descendant of yours who ended up in Caed Nua, or even someone different in the future. You could say that the initial event of the story turned the new PC into a Watcher or whatever. The point is, the stories have such a subtle relationship (apart from the NPCs from your party, obviously, but you could have others) that they wouldn't even need to be a direct sequel, and maybe the best thing would be if they really weren't.

But well, that's what we got.

The problem is that the story itself is extremely inconsistent and contradictory to the very lore they created. Plot holes everywhere. So much so that they needed to release a patch with more dialogue to explain obvious questions from the players - which any sane person would want to know in that context, but for some reason you didn't even have the option to ask, the dialogue with Eothas being one of the most striking point. And they didn't even plug the hole, they just threw waste in, put a lid on and said, "well that's a job done."

I mean, the issue involving reincarnation and the Macguffin of the story makes no sense at all: oh, yes, there was reincarnation before, but it was bad, very bad, so bad that it allowed for the existence of a civilization extremely more advanced than the present one, capable of controlling the soul of all beings and do crazy shit and gods. But it was, well, very bad, bro. They had thousands of ways to explain the plotholes consistently and that would keep the protagonist motivated, but they chose the dumbest explanation.

For storyfags - and yeah, I'm one - this was crazy. I tried to play the game twice and abandoned it in the middle for not being able to tolerate the stupidity of the central plot. The problem isn't that it was bad, it's how bad it was.

The rest of the game is very good, especially with the gambit / tactics system for programming A.I..

The thing is, I kinda agree! In almost every other way, POE2 is superior to the first game. The combat is more fluid, the items have more interesting effects and are distributed more intelligently, you can avoid more trash mobs if you want to (just don't explore the whole effing map you don't need to), even the encounter design is superior, although not by an large margin. But with DLCs, you could even get some interesting new boss battles!

And there's more.

The kickstarter from the first POE got about 3.9 million. But the second, made in FIG of all places, a platform that no fucking soul used, got 4.4 million! An even bigger amount! In other words, in every way, everything indicated that the game should be an even bigger success than the previous game. Do you want to see a similar case? Divinity: Original Sin. The first game got about 1.8 million in its first kickstarter, but the second game got about 2 million. And the game was such an absurd success for Larian that they are now making Baldur's Fucking Gate 3.

So what happened? The scenarios are similar. The trajectories of the two companies were very similar. But why was POE2 a failure, while DOS2 was one of the biggest successes of the decade?

I believe it was the story that was most to blame here. It's true, I do. As the data shows, before the game was released, people were optimistic about it. People paid significantly more, and, even more, in a site that didn't have 1/20 of Kickstarter's reach. That was the reach of POE, that was the reach of Obsidian. They had so much influence that they essentially created a new crowdfunding site from scratch. But even with all this success, with all this good faith, and with mechanics that, for the most part, are superior to the first game, the game was a terrible failure. It was a flop.

The lesson? If your audience relies heavily on storyfags, be sure to be the biggest and faggest story fag in history, in your game. Don't half-ass it.

-----------

That said, Pathfinder seems to be following the right path to be a better sequel than the first game in every way. Let's hope appearances don't deceive this time.

 

[Gyor]

Cool, another RPG in the bag. When are Owlcat going to make our accounts so we get to vote on rats?

No way am I voting Ratfolk. Kitsune all the way. I'm not a Warhammer fan, but I am a mythology fan.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

The kickstarter from the first POE got about 3.9 million. But the second, made in FIG of all places, a platform that no fucking soul used, got 4.4 million!

Dumpsterfire only got 2.2M though, Investors are not backers...

 

[AwesomeButton]

For storyfags - and yeah, I'm one - this was crazy.

The lesson I took, I think it was from following the GoT series, is that it's only worth developing "storyfaggotry" for franchises where the author a) is dead (preferrably) or b) has earned your trust over a long period of time, that he will respect the rules he has set for his world and characters.

My trust in PoE was gained when I saw Sawyer's work on the history and languages, and then lost when he tried to justify his approach of "everyone in the setting is race-blind, except when it comes to Orlans", and "We had to have dwarves and elves, because everyone has dwarves and elves, lol".

 

[Drowed]

The kickstarter from the first POE got about 3.9 million. But the second, made in FIG of all places, a platform that no fucking soul used, got 4.4 million!

Dumpsterfire only got 2.2M though, Investors are not backers...

That's a very good point. Although I don't agree 100%, the fact that they got a higher value on FIG than DOS2 got on Kickstarter is still very impressive to me. It's less shocking, no doubt about it, but the comparison with DOS2 is still offers a perspective on the possible audience they could have, and ended up not having.

But perhaps the context is different enough to justify such different results, I cannot say.

 

[fantadomat]

I see a lot of heretics in this thread,eager for some "re-education" in verses of human supremacy !


Also are the dark elfs in pathfinder cool slaves like the drows in D&D?

 

[Gyor]

Thank God that they didn't reach the final goal lol. Dinosaurs are retarded and would have only taken away part of the immersion.

Slacker Backers. They will count preorders towards the final goal. Don't like Dinosaurs, don't use them. Pretty simple. They are in the setting of Golarion however.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

The kickstarter from the first POE got about 3.9 million. But the second, made in FIG of all places, a platform that no fucking soul used, got 4.4 million!

Dumpsterfire only got 2.2M though, Investors are not backers...

That's a very good point. Although I don't agree 100%, the fact that they got a higher value on FIG than DOS2 got on Kickstarter is still very impressive to me. It's less shocking, no doubt about it, but the comparison with DOS2 is still offers a perspective on the possible audience they could have, and ended up not having.

But perhaps the context is different enough to justify such different results, I cannot say.

Yeah, even though I didn't like deadfire myself, I was actually surprised it flopped, disregarding story, it looked good ,graphics wise, and it was super easy and casual friendly. I thought it would sell big because of that alone. but I guess CRPGs is not a genre you can do that with.
Speaking of DOS2, am fairly sure that COOP has a lot to do with its sales, there also no guarantee yet that it wasn't just lightning in a bottle.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Cool, another RPG in the bag. When are Owlcat going to make our accounts so we get to vote on rats?

If you pledge through Codex might take a while

 

[ArchAngel]

Well the world wound is supposed to attract heroes all across the world for the crusade but on the other hand for Kingmaker they kept things focused on the region.

So I think your chances are 50/50.

See, if I could, for example, establish that I'm a member of some knightly cavalier or paladin order in a chelaxian colony in Maztica, and that our things are medium armor, feathers, and riding stegosauri, I'd be fine with dinosaurs.

I'm just not seeing that happening. Most likely, you'll show up with a fucking velicoraptor and it'll be treated as perfectly normal.

In a game where they will let a Demon lead an army vs demons this is the smaller problem.

No, because that will no doubt be rationalized and explained. You won't just pick "demon" on character creation, show up at the gates and have the commander go "'sup? You in? Cool."

There is no way to rationalize that. Whatever they come up with, it will be stupid.

What? There is A LOT of infighting among the demons, they're chaotic in nature. For instance, Areshkagal's (the demon lord from one of the stretch goals) greatest enemy is another demon lord, her half-sister.

It's perfectly plausible that a demon would fight other demons (even if they are trying to do stuff which would seemingly benefit all demons, like stretching Worldwound across all Golarion).

That is not what I am talking about. There is no way to rationalize that a Crusade led mostly by paladins and angels would let their mortal enemy be in charge. They would never agree with replacing one Demon with another.
Lich is already stretching it but I can see situations where you gain power slowly until you can remove all the paladins and Angels and do it your way. But being a Demon from the start and everyone ignoring it?!

I assume since it's a mythic path the Demon, Angel, et al. will gain their power slowly over time. For whatever narrative reason they dream up.

Something like:

Paladins and their Angelic allies and other Crusaders gather at the table:
Crusader 1: "This war is not going well, we might need some new commanders."
Paladin 1: "No, the grace of God is going to lead us to victory!"
Angelic Ally 1: "No the crusader dude is right, we might need a bit of change in tactics and some new allies. Lets try to use wisdom in addition to our zeal."
Crusader 2: "Sir, there is this young blood that attacked the demons with ferocity like he was one of them while we evacuated civilians from the city. Maybe he has some fresh ideas."
Crusader 1: "Sure, call him in. Let talk to him."
Player walks into the war room
Paladin 1: "I sense evil"
Angelic Ally 1: "I sense a demonic presence"
Crusader 1: "Shush you two, you spoil all our fun times" , turns to to player , "you there, I heard you saved a lot of civilians yesterday"
Player: "I killed a lot of weak demons and their foolish allies. Those fools should have followed me instead!"
Paladin 1: "Not the same thing"
Angelic Ally 1: "Uhh.."
Crusader 2 jumps up and says, "Hurrah! Where do I sign up"
Crusader 1 stares down Crusader 2 until he sits back
Crusader 1: "So we were thinking on how should we proceed in this war. As a hero of yesterday, we would would like to hear your thoughts"
Player: "Put me in charge and I guarantee we will win this war. These demons in front of us are all weakling fools and I will strike them down and take their place!"
Paladin 1: "Ok, think we heard enou.." - gets interrupted by Crusader 2
Crusader 2: "Guards! Show our Paladins and Angel allies way out. We Demon bitches now!"
Angelic Ally 1: "This is a mista.." - gets thrown out of the room
Crusader 1: "Wait a minute, I didn't ord.." - get stabbed by the Player.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Yeah, even though I didn't like deadfire myself, I was actually surprised it flopped, disregarding story, it looked good ,graphics wise, and it was super easy and casual friendly. I thought it would sell big because of that alone. but I guess CRPGs is not a genre you can do that with.
Speaking of DOS2, am fairly sure that COOP has a lot to do with its sales, there also no guarantee yet that it wasn't just lightning in a bottle.

The first PoE turned out to be more successful as a franchise-killer than as a spiritual successor to the IE games.

I see no other explanation, provided all the advantages Deadfire has over PoE: improved combat mechanics, an open World Map, multiple quests of the level of Raedric's Hold, multiclassing.

 

[Gyor]

Well the world wound is supposed to attract heroes all across the world for the crusade but on the other hand for Kingmaker they kept things focused on the region.

So I think your chances are 50/50.

See, if I could, for example, establish that I'm a member of some knightly cavalier or paladin order in a chelaxian colony in Maztica, and that our things are medium armor, feathers, and riding stegosauri, I'd be fine with dinosaurs.

I'm just not seeing that happening. Most likely, you'll show up with a fucking velicoraptor and it'll be treated as perfectly normal.

In a game where they will let a Demon lead an army vs demons this is the smaller problem.

No, because that will no doubt be rationalized and explained. You won't just pick "demon" on character creation, show up at the gates and have the commander go "'sup? You in? Cool."

First you don't start out with your mythic path, you get it later on. So you already have the job of Commander by the time you become a demon.

Its simply they won't rationalize it, they will let it play out as it should, any one who objects to a demon leading the crusade against other demons simply leaves or dies, to be replaced by those who are on board with the plan.

 

[Lacrymas]

I just don't know how they can spin a lich or a demon leading the crusade as still being the good guy. The end might be good, but we are killing our companions and lording over undead armies, soooo.

 

[Luckmann]

Oh, and, uh, speaking of ratfolk, someone made these:

Part 1

Part 2

I have no idea who, obviously, as this could potentially constitute some kind of infringement or something (who knows), but I thought they were nice and obviously made by a genius, so I thought I'd share.

 

[fantadomat]

I just don't know how they can spin a lich or a demon leading the crusade as still being the good guy. The end might be good, but we are killing our companions and lording over undead armies, soooo.

Who said that you are going to lead the crusade still? Most likely you will end up switching sides or being your own faction with the lich. I take it there will be quite a few crusade factions too,it is not like they are unified force. Some of them will end up allies after some quests,others will be walking meat sacks of exp .

 

[Luckmann]

I just don't know how they can spin a lich or a demon leading the crusade as still being the good guy. The end might be good, but we are killing our companions and lording over undead armies, soooo.

Oh, I think it's obvious that you won't be the "good guy" in several of these scenarios. But just because you're an asshole doesn't mean that you align with the other assholes.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Oh, and, uh, speaking of ratfolk, someone made these:

"Heroes from the fringe", well put.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Yeah, even though I didn't like deadfire myself, I was actually surprised it flopped, disregarding story, it looked good ,graphics wise, and it was super easy and casual friendly. I thought it would sell big because of that alone. but I guess CRPGs is not a genre you can do that with.
Speaking of DOS2, am fairly sure that COOP has a lot to do with its sales, there also no guarantee yet that it wasn't just lightning in a bottle.

The first PoE turned out to be more successful as a franchise-killer than as a spiritual successor to the IE games.

I see no other explanation, provided all the advantages Deadfire has over PoE: improved combat mechanics, an open World Map, multiple quests of the level of Raedric's Hold, multiclassing.

You might be right, But I don't think Deadfire has improved mechanics or quest design overall, it's better in certain areas sure, but then again there are many places where it's worse, for example it's liteally the only CRPG I have played that somehow managed to make me get bored while playing Wizards and priests.
Not to mention any advantage Deadfire has when it comes to gameplay was instantly lost around launch time(most important time) due to it's absurd lack of difficulty, this was even apparent in streams before the game's release.
Which leaves it only with it's writing/story that are almost Larian levels of crap.