Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Thonius]

People are just having problems with her portrait and VO. She is just Valerie (member people were sad that's she is not paladin?) but black, whooptie fucking dooo.

No! Valerie was a much more enjoyable companion than that negrodin who is just loose with the rules. Especially the way you could make her face red with anger if you did a certain thing or how she would get a sadistic smile if you choose certain lawful evil actions. All that while trying to keep her composure and look like the dutiful knight.

Again, if you install white skin mode for her I believe most issues will be gone here.

 

[Thonius]

Again, we've had blacks and stronk wymynn in entertainment for decades. The difference now is that "diversity" (really just anti-Whiteness) has become the establishment's High Church, everyone has to genuflect and repeat the mantras, and woe betide you if you cross the inquisitors.

So let's get this out of the way real quick with a simple 4th grade level comparison between 2 characters in WOTR:

Seelah:
The first thing that you learn about her is that she likes to help the needy without being asked. (she tries to help Anevia when she's stuck under a rock)
The second thing you learn about her is at the end of the Maze, when you learn that she always struggles to do what's right.
And the third thing you find out about her is that... she likes to drink. (you find this out anywhere from 1h to 3h into the game)

These are 3 traits. Meaning you NEED 3 traits to have a character. (obviously the more you have, the more complex the character is, of course.)

Compare this to Regill, where these things are there in the first 60s:
1. he has incredible resourcefulness
2. he has critical thinking
3. a grasp of basic strategy, and reaction to basic enemy strategy
4. charisma and, at least, basic leadership skills
5. concise and precise speech in accordance to his situation
and after the battle (which can range from another 60s to 10 minutes:
6. gratefulness, but not putting you beyond suspicion of corruption/being on the enemy side, given his
7. seemingly extensive knowledge of the enemy he's facing

Right?


And now let's put ourselves in the mind of Amber Scott, because it's not fucking hard. She can't clear 4th grade education, so...

Seelah is a character because:
1. She likes to help people.
2. She's female.
3. She's black.
4. She's a paladin.

Problem is: a character cannot be defined by their sex, colour of skin or job; because THOSE ARE NOT TRAITS OF CHARACTER. A fucking 10 year-old knows this.

So, what do we have then?

It's funny to me that people have strong opinions at all about Seelah.
She's just boring.

Seelah is just meh indeed.

The real problem is that this got past the Owlcat writing team. And Mishu-mishu. These people apparently are WRITERS. That went to a school of WRITERS. And there, they were taught how to WRITE.

Why... my brain is smooth as an ice rink and I seem to know better.

You forgot sexual orientation which is like 99% of personality for nu west.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

People are just having problems with her portrait and VO. She is just Valerie (member people were sad that's she is not paladin?) but black, whooptie fucking dooo.

No! Valerie was a much more enjoyable companion than that negrodin who is just loose with the rules. Especially the way you could make her face red with anger if you did a certain thing or how she would get a sadistic smile if you choose certain lawful evil actions. All that while trying to keep her composure and look like the dutiful knight.

Again, if you install white skin mode for her I believe most issues will be gone here.

She still has that voice. There's also the problem where this game has much worse writing than Kingmaker somehow.

 

[Thonius]

People are just having problems with her portrait and VO. She is just Valerie (member people were sad that's she is not paladin?) but black, whooptie fucking dooo.

No! Valerie was a much more enjoyable companion than that negrodin who is just loose with the rules. Especially the way you could make her face red with anger if you did a certain thing or how she would get a sadistic smile if you choose certain lawful evil actions. All that while trying to keep her composure and look like the dutiful knight.

Again, if you install white skin mode for her I believe most issues will be gone here.

She still has that voice. There's also the problem where this game has much worse writing than Kingmaker somehow.

Nothing beats Armag voice lines in pfk, just bad.

 

[smaug]

Sieging Drezen with 2 Cold iron weapons and no trap disabler


This game is bullshit

 

[gurugeorge]

Arguing for the other side again, just because someone's an SJW doesn't necessarily make their art bad. Often, they'll have been a talented kid and manifested that talent at an early age, but it's the system that's picking them up and turning them into ghouls, or exacerbating their worst aspects while withering their best aspects. They might make bad art in the sense that they're making propaganda, but it could still be well done on a technical nuts and bolts level - well written, well painted, well coded, etc.

The corruption is in the system, not the people. People in general just follow the system because unless they're politically organized they're weak as individuals and can't change anything.

But again, that's why the "Nothing to see here, move along" crowd here is missing the point. If it were just a matter of a few crazies or weirdos, it wouldn't be a problem (after all that's what it was like in the 80s and 90s, SJWs were just a minority, a flavour in society); but the malaise has gone far deeper than that, it's now systemic, it's a religion, a new religion that's got society firmly in its grasp now.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

People are just having problems with her portrait and VO. She is just Valerie (member people were sad that's she is not paladin?) but black, whooptie fucking dooo.

No! Valerie was a much more enjoyable companion than that negrodin who is just loose with the rules. Especially the way you could make her face red with anger if you did a certain thing or how she would get a sadistic smile if you choose certain lawful evil actions. All that while trying to keep her composure and look like the dutiful knight.

Again, if you install white skin mode for her I believe most issues will be gone here.

Here's the problem with your argument:
Ekundayo was well liked and a bro.

case in point:

Ekundayo is bro-tier

Spoiler

 

[Thonius]

Maybe only retarded part of society.

 

[Efe]

seelah isn't feminine cos shes iconic. they cant fuck with iconics.
What I dont like about her is her character is not respecting the setting/lore of a paladin in a crusade.
Her personal quest starting with "lets go shopping" doesnt do her any favors either

 

[Thonius]

People are just having problems with her portrait and VO. She is just Valerie (member people were sad that's she is not paladin?) but black, whooptie fucking dooo.

No! Valerie was a much more enjoyable companion than that negrodin who is just loose with the rules. Especially the way you could make her face red with anger if you did a certain thing or how she would get a sadistic smile if you choose certain lawful evil actions. All that while trying to keep her composure and look like the dutiful knight.

Again, if you install white skin mode for her I believe most issues will be gone here.

Here's the problem with your argument:
Ekundayo was well liked and a bro.

case in point:

Ekundayo is bro-tier

Spoiler

Okay I wrote few pages back that vo irks me too, but if ignore race she will be better then psycho lip biter. Also normal maybe even à bit plain and bland.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

seelah isn't feminine cos shes iconic. they cant fuck with iconics.
What I dont like about her is her character is not respecting the setting/lore of a paladin in a crusade.
Her personal quest starting with "lets go shopping" doesnt do her any favors either

Is that why Amiri was also irredeemably stupid?

 

[Nos]

seelah isn't feminine cos shes iconic. they cant fuck with iconics.
What I dont like about her is her character is not respecting the setting/lore of a paladin in a crusade.
Her personal quest starting with "lets go shopping" doesnt do her any favors either

Who cares about Seelah, she's just the most boring of a mostly unappealing cast of characters.
What's under her armor? Is she a tranny or just doing massive amounts of Orc/Troll steroids?
Is the most interesting thing about her.

Otherwise:
There's a cannibalistic Spider-Woman who has a crush on you.
Also a 12-year old street kid on crack or crystal meth...who has a crush on you.
Or if you swing the other way, a bisexual aristocrat...who has a crush on you.
Does Lann or the gyp thief have a crush on you? Haven't played enough to find out...

The writing is so bad it can't be parodied, the characters in the first game were all OK,
even the butch barbarian girl wasn't terrible, here they are 'edgy' indie comic book caricatures,
apparently later in the game you can become a Lich and kill them all, might be the one
redeeming characteristic of this game...

 

[smaug]

Sooo I have calculated 70000gold in scrolls for drezen, is that reasonable? Isn’t this place the hardest, most brutal dungeon in the game?

You only get 1 rest? Motherfucker

 

[DeepOcean]

Seelah is a character because:
1. She likes to help people.
2. She's female.
3. She's black.
4. She's a paladin.

On the PnP, her backstory was that while she was an orphan, she stole a helmet of a paladin while they were defending her city, the paladin ended dying on a battle with a flail hit on the head because on the mess of the battle she fought without one, so Seelah decided to bring the helmet back to the pire of this paladin and thougth she was responsible for her death and wished to die with her on the pire.

I think the story of the paladin fighting without a helmet is silly because no way she couldnt have found a replacement but the idea of someone so fanatical that is willing to die in fire because of guilt would be pretty interesting, unfortunately on the PnP, this is just a half page bio. The problem started when Paizo had this idea: "Hey Vasili, we know we are paying you in Vodka and cigarettes and you cant write for shit but you are our cheapest option, how about you take this half a page character bio and while on the intervals of the vodka binging, you write something for it, we are seeking to all our cRPGs to have one of our "iconic" characters to boost sales."

Unfortunately Vodka binging Vasili isnt Avellone, so he takes the easy road and go for boring basic Bioware style archetypes: so she is a good natured woman, stronk and independent woman that likes to drink and even crack quirky jokes, meaning, every single western female character cliche on the last 5 years. The fact of she being a black paladin is Paizo's doing, their "iconic" characters are full of minorities quota, the fact of her boredom is ruskies fault, her boredom makes people to default to her commercial nature as diversity champion for Paizo even more.

Take Kaelyn the Dove, a weak writer would write her as bitch feminist stronk woman and all its clones out there, just look what Amber Scott did on Siege o Dragon Spear with another Aasimar, she even looks like one, but she isnt and the reason because she is terribly complex and contradictory, her faith in her God cant be compatible with the pain her God causes with the wall of the faithless and this torments her. Her nature is born from this conflict not from a character template shitting out instances of characters that is the Bioware way.

 

[The_Mask]

Sooo I have calculated 70000gold in scrolls for drezen, is that reasonable? Isn’t this place the hardest, most brutal dungeon in the game?

You only get 1 rest? Motherfucker

You get a lot more than 1 rest.
Erm... not sure where you come up with these "mathematical tactics", but you should be fine with most of the scrolls you come by. I would suggest having True Sight, if you can spot it anywhere. That one really helps. Otherwise just roll with whatever's coming and enjoy the game.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

she stole

 

[smaug]

Sooo I have calculated 70000gold in scrolls for drezen, is that reasonable? Isn’t this place the hardest, most brutal dungeon in the game?

You only get 1 rest? Motherfucker

You get a lot more than 1 rest.
Erm... not sure where you come up with these "mathematical tactics", but you should be fine with most of the scrolls you come by. I would suggest having True Sight, if you can spot it anywhere. That one really helps. Otherwise just roll with whatever's coming and enjoy the game.

I expect the game to throw CR20 monsters at me and whatnot since it’s already happened like 4 times at level 8. And my good magic shit is gone because WolfJ is gone.

Tried to go west and fight some ghost, got instant killed, so I don’t even have level 5 spells, nowhere to level up

 

[Fedora Master]

seelah isn't feminine cos shes iconic. they cant fuck with iconics.
What I dont like about her is her character is not respecting the setting/lore of a paladin in a crusade.
Her personal quest starting with "lets go shopping" doesnt do her any favors either

The cities generally don't seem very "Oh shit we're in full Crusade mode" when you look around. You just liberated a city from being occupied by literal demons and it immediately looks like nothing ever happened.

 

[The_Mask]

Tried to go west and fight some ghost, got instant killed, so I don’t even have level 5 spells, nowhere to level up

Do your best, smaug. You'll be fine. As I said, True Seeing makes things a lot easier. Otherwise you'll be fine.

 

[Fedora Master]

Sooo I have calculated 70000gold in scrolls for drezen, is that reasonable? Isn’t this place the hardest, most brutal dungeon in the game?

You only get 1 rest? Motherfucker

There are at least 5 caches of supplies that allow for short rests around the place. It's not great - because the game itself isn't - but it's doable.

 

[Shadenuat]

Their dev team worked on HOMM5 and other good TB I think, no idea why they couldn’t replicate that type of quality

actually now that I couldn't sleep cause of autistic artistic personal things, I want to add, that it's not about quality, or that you can't do it; but that HOMM fights as mechanism is a flawed way to represent designers goal of fighting armies.

HOMM fights aren't very tactical, the truth is that any simple wargame with hexes would beat em up p easily. Morale, stamina, flanking and envelopment, terrain advantage - even something non-expensive and modern like say nu-Fantasy Generals can do it. The idea behind HOMM fights, is that they are used to resolve economic and map exploration decisions in a efficient and very prutty way (HOMM II being pruttiest). It's not about who outmaneuvres who by casting mass haste first, but about making sure that enemies decision to buy sexy new expensive stack just set them back in the game. Add to this HOMM maps that can be sprawling labyrinths of shiny crystals and teleporters with terrain changing hero movement, and even scripts with quest chains, well, basically, Art, and you will quickly see that even if you try to turn combats into puzzles about how to kill 11000 lazure dragons with 3 peasants and 1 angel it still would be not using the whole thing to its real potential.

It would be much more effective to, for example, break whole WOTR map into hexes, make Party a 1 unit, and your units and demons other units, and go exploring for crystal mines n stuff.

But thats if you managed to persuade me to do this instead of, well, making the real fucking combat of the game better, and the realz systems. Like, tuning encounters so stealth would actually be useful everywhere. Or making sure Divination actually does something, close to what it could do in PnP. And classes roleplay more like what they're supposed to roleplay. That sort of thing.
And you really wouldn't be able to, cause I dont want minigamez in my baldrus gates.

 

[LannTheStupid]

her character is not respecting the setting/lore of a paladin in a crusade.

May be because the whole "crusade" is a mess and laughing stock for demons at the beginning of Wrath?

just because someone's an SJW doesn't necessarily make their art bad.

Yeah, like Leni Riefenstahl or Сергей Бондарчук.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It doesn't fit the tone because the writers are terrible. Nothing fits the tone.

 

[Fedora Master]

I told you they learned nothing from Kingmaker. Same broken state at launch, worse writing, worse encounters, worse gimmick mechanics.

 

[Cryomancer]

Aivu is the best companion of the game. Is a havoc dragon for Azata.

Zacharius is the best NPC

Arueshalae is the second best romance losing only to the brothel ie - not having a wife and just paying for it

Everything else is average or shit.