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KickStarter Pathologic 2 (AKA Pathologic remake)

Verylittlefishes

Sacro Bosco
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I think a lot of the game's own fans have done it a tremendous disservice by saying it's "deliberately unenjoyable" and "anti-fun" and "basically an interactive story rather than a game"

this sounds retarded, you can say this about Disco Elysium (and still be retarded btw), but about Pathologic 2? no way
 

RoSoDude

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
675
I think a lot of the game's own fans have done it a tremendous disservice by saying it's "deliberately unenjoyable" and "anti-fun" and "basically an interactive story rather than a game"

this sounds retarded, you can say this about Disco Elysium (and still be retarded btw), but about Pathologic 2? no way
Don't look at me:

Zz9peoj.png
 

Verylittlefishes

Sacro Bosco
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Wunderbar

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Nov 15, 2015
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Does it have combat and stealth?
it is an open world first person action/stealth/adventure/rpg-lite/survival horror game with a constantly ticking timer.

- there is a story (and it is a bit non-linear);
- there are side quests, although they are so intertwined with the main story it is hard to tell the difference which quest is optional and which isn't;
- quests are time-sensitive, you can't just fuck around and gather flowers - you must learn the city layout and optimize your time management;
- there is an open city to explore, NPCs, bartering system, reputation system, stores with different prices;
- there is a combat system, both melee and ranged (you can use fists, knives, guns, etc);
- the game has survival elements (fatigue, hunger, thirst, infection, immunity, weapon/armor degradation and repairing, brewing potions, etc);
- the game has an inventory tetris;
- there are no character skills or attributes, but you can upgrade your equipment.
 

Verylittlefishes

Sacro Bosco
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Oneoropolis
Does it have combat and stealth?
it is an open world first person action/stealth/adventure/rpg-lite/survival horror game with a constantly ticking timer.

- there is a story (and it is a bit non-linear);
- there are side quests, although they are so intertwined with the main story it is hard to tell the difference which quest is optional and which isn't;
- quests are time-sensitive, you can't just fuck around and gather flowers - you must learn the city layout and optimize your time management;
- there is an open city to explore, NPCs, bartering system, reputation system, stores with different prices;
- there is a combat system, both melee and ranged (you can use fists, knives, guns, etc);
- the game has survival elements (fatigue, hunger, thirst, infection, immunity, weapon/armor degradation and repairing, brewing potions, etc);
- the game has an inventory tetris;
- there are no character skills or attributes, but you can upgrade your equipment.

Also you will probably die and then die again and again, almost like in Dark Souls, but not really, and death is also integrative part of the game, but not really.

Amazing game, I feel sick of it.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
The short of it is that it's fantastic, one of the most innovative games I've ever played. I think a lot of the game's own fans have done it a tremendous disservice by saying it's "deliberately unenjoyable" and "anti-fun" and "basically an interactive story rather than a game", because the gameplay on its own merits is deep and highly engaging
Most games are made to be power fantasies. Whether it is taking down hordes of demons in doom, commanding an army in red alert or surviving the wilderness in don't starve it is all eventually empowering.

Pathologic 2 is not like this. Throughout the whole thing you are desperately trying to find enough money and resources to just survive and cross of stuff from your to do list. And even when you win it doesn't feel like a victory, there's so many things left undone and so many npc's you failed to protect...

I think it is a bit hard to describe, but to me it certainly doesn't feel "fun" in the same way most games do. But it is engaging and it felt like a more worthwhile usage of my time than most games. But I never really felt like I mastered a gameplay system or pulled off a slick move. Bandits and hunger were very dangerous in the first hour, and equally so in the final one.

I think it is these sorts of things people mean when they say "anti-fun" and "not a game", because in a lot of ways it really is very different from usual video game fare.

And it is great.
 

Verylittlefishes

Sacro Bosco
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Should I play Pathologic 1 first?

No, play it afterwards if you like P2. P1 has better atmosphere/music/bigger story, but it is almost broken as a game. Also the visuals are bad even for 2005.
 

RoSoDude

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
675
The short of it is that it's fantastic, one of the most innovative games I've ever played. I think a lot of the game's own fans have done it a tremendous disservice by saying it's "deliberately unenjoyable" and "anti-fun" and "basically an interactive story rather than a game", because the gameplay on its own merits is deep and highly engaging
Most games are made to be power fantasies. Whether it is taking down hordes of demons in doom, commanding an army in red alert or surviving the wilderness in don't starve it is all eventually empowering.

Pathologic 2 is not like this. Throughout the whole thing you are desperately trying to find enough money and resources to just survive and cross of stuff from your to do list. And even when you win it doesn't feel like a victory, there's so many things left undone and so many npc's you failed to protect...

I think it is a bit hard to describe, but to me it certainly doesn't feel "fun" in the same way most games do. But it is engaging and it felt like a more worthwhile usage of my time than most games. But I never really felt like I mastered a gameplay system or pulled off a slick move. Bandits and hunger were very dangerous in the first hour, and equally so in the final one.

I think it is these sorts of things people mean when they say "anti-fun" and "not a game", because in a lot of ways it really is very different from usual video game fare.

And it is great.

I definitely felt like I had mastered the gameplay systems over time. The designers would then up the ante with some new way to screw me over, of course, but that's just a new challenge I'll have to adapt to, which I found naturally empowering. Coming back to the mansion in Resident Evil to find it infested with Hunters with my supplies dwindling was no less tense, stressful, or indeed enjoyable than my lowest point in Pathologic 2. The main difference is that the latter is largely a product of level and encounter design, while the other is a more emergent result of the survival systems and light procedurally generated elements. Yes, the game is constantly emphasizing your failures (though not as much as I'd hoped in the end), but I just can't see this as an example of "deliberately unsatisfying gameplay" or whatever in service of a narrative. That's the impression I get from the first game as an outsider looking in, but I would characterize most of my time with Pathologic 2 as enjoyable in a similar manner to a survival horror title or other games which thrive on tension and challenge. I wouldn't be able to easily disentangle that kind of enjoyment from a more traditionally empowering sort of fun either, to be honest.
 

prengle

Savant
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
339
I think a lot of the game's own fans have done it a tremendous disservice by saying it's "deliberately unenjoyable" and "anti-fun" and "basically an interactive story rather than a game", because the gameplay on its own merits is deep and highly engaging, and dovetails so intelligently with the narrative, which is also quite captivating.
not speaking for p2 here but i've always found patho "fun" in it's own way, it's simultaneously an absolute fucking brainkilling slog and a constant stream of chaos and misery and i love it. you are not getting the full experience if you watch an lp on youtube, to say the least
Should I play Pathologic 1 first?
i mean, i still think the original pathologic is great and impressive as hell considering the conditions it was developed in, and it is one complete experience whereas p2 is still haruspex-only a year and a half later, but p2 is technically better in pretty much every single way so if you could only play one of them go with 2 i guess? :shittydog:
 

HansDampf

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
1,298
Just played the game. Full critique here (focused mostly on gameplay):

https://rosodudemods.wordpress.com/2020/12/22/pathologic-2-a-promise-fulfilled/

Moreover, the combination of the plague “loop” with the world design of the Town creates a massive navigation and optimization puzzle across each day. Far from an organized grid, roads are circuitous and winding and fences block off entry to wealthier homes (the inconvenient city planning is actually a minor component in the narrative). Finding a quick path from point A to point B means examining the map and mentally tracing out a path, cutting through alleyways and side alcoves to save time. The boundaries between most districts can be crossed only at 1-2 chokepoints, which further complicates navigation. When the plague and burned zones are added on top, this creates a challenging set of questions for the player as they work out how to meet their long-term goals relating to the game’s timed events and immediate goals related to survival. Is it worth taking the long way around dangerous districts to avoid death and disease? What’s the fastest path to cut through a plague district? If I get spotted by bandits, what path do I take to run away? This district doesn’t like me much – should I try to win back their trust by healing the sick, or double down as a criminal here and leave the zone to rot? I’m running out of food; should I loot a house and hope to find something to eat, or do I try to find the nearest grocery which may be in an unsafe location? I’m running out of water – where should I look for more without drinking from dirty barrels in an infected district? These questions are constantly ruminating in the player’s mind, creating a methodical pace to gameplay that is constantly stimulating as they must simultaneously manage multiple layers of complexity even while simply walking around the town – timed events, survival needs, navigation, the plague cycle, resources, trading, inventory, stealth, combat. It’s also worth noting that many elements in this matrix are randomized, from loot tables to locked doors to the NPCs roaming town and occupying buildings to to a plague infection/survival diceroll for key characters, including those “bound” to the player character.
This is an underappreciated part by critics who can't get past the survival meters. It becomes a real challenge when time ticks faster and you have multiple infected people to take care of. You start to neglect patients that live too far away in inconvenient districts. Fun times.
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
7,344
Ice Pick did a podcast.

tl;dr - they mostly talked about their current projects (know by heart, neurotale). Bachelor's campaign is still in the work, but definitely will not be released in 2021.
 

Verylittlefishes

Sacro Bosco
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2019
Messages
4,621
Location
Oneoropolis
Ice Pick did a podcast.

tl;dr - they mostly talked about their current projects (know by heart, neurotale). Bachelor's campaign is still in the work, but definitely will not be released in 2021.

Let's face it, it will never be released.
 

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