KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Mustawd]

IS there video about the TUs vs AP talk he gave?

 

[LESS T_T]

IS there video about the TUs vs AP talk he gave?

None that I can find, not even a written report, unfortunately.

Well, I hope Mr. Gollop releases the slide at least (or better, Fig update or Facebook stream of the presentation), as I think that is the topic many backers are interested in.

 

[Mustawd]

UnstableVoltage

 

[UnstableVoltage]

UnstableVoltage

I'm not aware of one - but I've not really had a chance to ask while he has been away. I'm interested to see it myself, so I will attempt to find out.

 

[ArchAngel]

UnstableVoltage

I'm not aware of one - but I've not really had a chance to ask while he has been away. I'm interested to see it myself, so I will attempt to find out.

Can you also find out how do they plan to balance free targeting so the game does not become a walk over for any experienced player?

 

[UnstableVoltage]

UnstableVoltage

I'm not aware of one - but I've not really had a chance to ask while he has been away. I'm interested to see it myself, so I will attempt to find out.

Can you also find out how do they plan to balance free targeting so the game does not become a walk over for any experienced player?

The intent is to try and balance everything, of course. The demo hasn't really had any balancing at this point. The free aim was only introduced to the build a few days prior to the EGX show, and it is very much in the stage of being used for feedback collection to help resolve these very issues.

 

[ArchAngel]

UnstableVoltage

I'm not aware of one - but I've not really had a chance to ask while he has been away. I'm interested to see it myself, so I will attempt to find out.

Can you also find out how do they plan to balance free targeting so the game does not become a walk over for any experienced player?

The intent is to try and balance everything, of course. The demo hasn't really had any balancing at this point. The free aim was only introduced to the build a few days prior to the EGX show, and it is very much in the stage of being used for feedback collection to help resolve these very issues.

I must say that when you first talked about free aiming at around FIG campaign this was not what I was expecting :D
I was expecting UFO style free aiming with being able to target any tile and use that to force target walls and barriers between you and discovered enemies or to still be able to catch aliens behind cover with AoE of explosive devices.

I know body part targeting was announced as well long time ago but I always thought that would be something only allowed to snipers and maybe specialized assault troops.

I don't have a clue how you will be able to balance everyone being able to fine tune their aiming. At least using free aiming should cost more TU than normal fire and automatic weapons should not be allowed to aim and use burst fire.
Also using pistols to fire 3 times while using free aim is too much.
Maybe even some hit chance penalty for free aiming in addition to costing more TU or force characters to use willpower points as well.

 

[UnstableVoltage]

UnstableVoltage

I'm not aware of one - but I've not really had a chance to ask while he has been away. I'm interested to see it myself, so I will attempt to find out.

Can you also find out how do they plan to balance free targeting so the game does not become a walk over for any experienced player?

The intent is to try and balance everything, of course. The demo hasn't really had any balancing at this point. The free aim was only introduced to the build a few days prior to the EGX show, and it is very much in the stage of being used for feedback collection to help resolve these very issues.

I must say that when you first talked about free aiming at around FIG campaign this was not what I was expecting :D
I was expecting UFO style free aiming with being able to target any tile and use that to force target walls and barriers between you and discovered enemies or to still be able to catch aliens behind cover with AoE of explosive devices.

I know body part targeting was announced as well long time ago but I always thought that would be something only allowed to snipers and maybe specialized assault troops.

I don't have a clue how you will be able to balance everyone being able to fine tune their aiming. At least using free aiming should cost more TU than normal fire and automatic weapons should not be allowed to aim and use burst fire.
Also using pistols to fire 3 times while using free aim is too much.
Maybe even some hit chance penalty for free aiming in addition to costing more TU or force characters to use willpower points as well.

Julian had planned this Valkyria Chronicles style of aiming since the Fig (we just didn't mention this feature externally). It was actually a feature originally planned for "The Dreamland Chronicles: Freedom Ridge" which never saw the light of day. We knew we had to add a system to allow shooting at cover (as opposed to the XCOM style target locking). Using the free-aim to accomplish that seemed ideal. It is still all open for testing, balancing and tweaking of course.

 

[Alienman]

And people complain about the original being clunky and taking a long time. To play absolute optimal in Phoenix Point you will have to use free aim in every encounter.

 

[Mustawd]

Yes allowing free aim everywhere without cost sounds bananas.

It’d be a cool concept if tied to class,faction or willpower cost though.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

What other games have been there that came close to them?

Galdred is right about Chaos Gate, it does many things right for a license game.
Battles tend to be long because both sides have basic units that can take lots of punishment.


There is also 101: The Airborne Invasion of Normandy which I only know by reputation, but it is said to be one of the most hardcore of squad tactics games.

Would be an instabuy for me if it got GOG treatment.

 

[The Fish]

I don't remember free aim being a problem in valkyria chronicles, at least in terms of game speed and clunkyness. I guess it's harder to anticipate what your line of sight will look like because the movement is top down?

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Perhaps free aiming could be balanced with system that would lower CtH when making multiple shots or shooting after longer move.

Snapshot Games could name this faster firing mode Shooting-faster-but-with-lower-accuracy-because-unit-does-not-use-much-time-to-concentrate-on-a-single-shot-system.
There could also be aimed shots, but those could cost more TU.

 

[Latelistener]

Valkyria Chronicles's assets were made in mind for a TPS game (not to say that it was stylized).
PP has top-down view, and a lot of stuff just looks ugly from a first person perspective. Not sure how they're going to solve that.

 

[luinthoron]

At least using free aiming should cost more TU than normal fire and automatic weapons should not be allowed to aim and use burst fire.
Also using pistols to fire 3 times while using free aim is too much.
Maybe even some hit chance penalty for free aiming in addition to costing more TU or force characters to use willpower points as well.

I don't really see free aim as a problem here, in the end the soldier would still want to aim at the optimal spot whether you do this for him or not. No need for specific penalties for doing this, especially if the sniper still gets its aim bonus to body part targeting. The hit chance overall may be a bit too high right now, though.

Valkyria Chronicles's assets were made in mind for a TPS game (not to say that it was stylized).
PP has top-down view, and a lot of stuff just looks ugly from a first person perspective. Not sure how they're going to solve that.

Top-down or first person view really shouldn't matter much when the assets are 3D models anyway - if it's ugly for you in first person perspective, it's ugly when you zoom in enough in top-down view. And even without the manual aiming, the XCOM style action cam / over the shoulder view when you shoot is still there, so the presence of this aiming feature changes little in the overall aesthetics.

 

[Israfael]

7,62 is supposed to be a good tactics game. Also RTwP.

Yeah, that's what I meant - 7.62 is the dumbed down version of Brigade E5 with 'better' (as the devs claimed) RPG / non-tactical elements. Haven't played it yet, but I don't like the fact that the minimap is taking half the screen at all times

 

[HansDampf]

The more I think about this free aim stuff, the less I like it. And I'm beginning to think a strict 2D isometric perspective would have been better. In X-COM hitboxes were just simple cuboids or cylinders. Now you have to worry about balancing issues due to free aim min-maxing, timing with idle animations, soldiers taking cover with or without cover animations, or someone getting sniped because his finger happened to stick out. Sounds like a design nightmare.

 

[Alienman]

Don't Silent Storm have a nice system for special aiming or is it JA2? You just use the numpad, think it was 8 for head, 4 for left arm, 5 for torso and so on.

 

[agris]

Fallout's was nice, that's just janky. But yes, it's silent storm.

 

[UnstableVoltage]

IS there video about the TUs vs AP talk he gave?

Julian says that it wasn't recorded. Given how many of these things Julian does, and that he normally recycles these presentations, you probably will get to hear it in the future.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

What other games have been there that came close to them?

Galdred is right about Chaos Gate, it does many things right for a license game.
Battles tend to be long because both sides have basic units that can take lots of punishment.


There is also 101: The Airborne Invasion of Normandy which I only know by reputation, but it is said to be one of the most hardcore of squad tactics games.

Would be an instabuy for me if it got GOG treatment.

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/578/details/Tigers.on.the.Hunt

never played it, but this game is supposed to be advanced squad leader on the computer. ASL is a super detailed simulation of small unit tactical warfare, with each turn being like 2 minutes or 5 minutes of real time. It more simulates command and control than individual soldier dynamics, so it may not be exactly what you are talking about. I don't really like ASL though, but many people love it. I like more operational brigade or battalion level games myself.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

 

[Citizen]

Hm interesting, thanks for mentioning it, I'll give it a try

I just finished CG a month ago, and I really enjoyed it. X-com's tactical battles, magic, chaos demons, unique soundtrack. Was taking a lot of screenshots for lp, but turned out the codex already has one.

Spoiler

 

[Alienman]

Been reading a bit of the stories again, and I find it a bit strange how certain texts have been written. They are written from a first hand experience, explaining in detail how the person writing succumbs to some kind of horror. "I was dragged under the water and it soon filled my lungs..." etc. The stories are good still, but this must be considered a total blunder by the authors if I'm not missing something here.

 

[UnstableVoltage]

Been reading a bit of the stories again, and I find it a bit strange how certain texts have been written. They are written from a first hand experience, explaining in detail how the person writing succumbs to some kind of horror. "I was dragged under the water and it soon filled my lungs..." etc. The stories are good still, but this must be considered a total blunder by the authors if I'm not missing something here.

They're written that way by design. You will find most of the stories are written in the first person. This falls into the idea of the "unreliable narrator", meaning that you only have the narrator's word that the story they're telling is the truth.