KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[PanteraNera]

Wait, I'm confused. Cover mechanics are still in this game? So no manual crouch function?

I'm confused as well. That was the plan:

Speaking of cover; the cover in Phoenix Point is dynamic. Instead of cover just being "low" or "high" with a fixed stat modifier, the cover in Phoenix Point will be a physical barrier, which will vary depending on the size and shape of the object being used as cover.

But in the demo we see exactly the opposite.

It is a "hybrid" as well, so to speak. If you move to cover your soldiers automatically crouch (as in XCOM) but the cover is actually WYSIWYG (so real cover). So cover some tiles in front of your soldier, will still give cover. Currently there are no plans for manual crouch as far as I am informed, this might (hopefully) change at some point.

 

[Latelistener]

You will crouch behind anything represented as "half cover" (which I think from memory is anything below 1m heigh), and full cover (around 2m or taller) you will hide behind but be able to "step out" when taking a shot.

I see. That was the reason for confusion. I thought those things represent the quality of the cover itself, but it's just height.

 

[ArchAngel]

I recently watched a streamer that knows what he is doing playing latest version of PP (that has manual aiming). He made this one mission look super easy. Mostly due to manual aiming. Except for the queen all other aliens were useless due to manual aiming. He could circumvent the shield easily, also cover and do headshots with all soldiers.

 

[Alienman]

Funny you got my Youtube comment in there

That Simeon guy is a champ. Might not even need Broomhall.

 

[Galdred]

Wait, I'm confused. Cover mechanics are still in this game? So no manual crouch function?

FWIW, we were told in basic training that crouching in the opeon was a good way to get killed.
IIRC, crouching is mostly for close combat room cleaning (which is alreayd very unhealtyh), or to stay behind cover.
What is lacking from all these XCOM clones is the ability to go prone when not in cover, which is actually really useful and people do a lot.

 

[PanteraNera]

Wait, I'm confused. Cover mechanics are still in this game? So no manual crouch function?

FWIW, we were told in basic training that crouching in the opeon was a good way to get killed.
IIRC, crouching is mostly for close combat room cleaning (which is alreayd very unhealtyh), or to stay behind cover.
What is lacking from all these XCOM clones is the ability to go prone when not in cover, which is actually really useful and people do a lot.

Great you made me nostalgic!
It's not just recent games (XCOM clones)

For me there is only one tactical squad based game that is still way better than anything else and that is Jagged Alliance 2. At least regarding the tactical combat and options it gave, even more so with 1.13. But also the rest was quite nice (strategic layer, mercs with personalty, stats, weapon customization, inventory management to name a few). X-Com is another great one and I played it way more than JA2 as it had interesting game elements like base building, research, a sense of horror, capturing live specimen, not much story (great for replays).

What other games have been there that came close to them?

Only one I remember is Silent Storm while I like it for what it is it does not even comes close to JA2 and X-Com.

 

[Shog-goth]

What other games have been there that came close to them?

I quite enjoyed Fallout Tactics.

 

[PanteraNera]

What other games have been there that came close to them?

I quite enjoyed Fallout Tactics.

I surprisingly enjoyed it as well (I consider myself a hardcore Fallout 1 fan), they seriously fucked up the Fallout setting, also these fucking stupid robots. But I liked it not as an Fallout game, but as an nice post apocalyptic tactics game. But to me it also does not come close to JA2 and X-Com.

 

[Shog-goth]

But to me it also does not come close to JA2 and X-Com.

Obviously not. But who does? I think we all agree that we're here because we hope that PP will finally be the "spiritual successor" we are all waiting for more than two decades now.

 

[PanteraNera]

But to me it also does not come close to JA2 and X-Com.

Obviously not. But who does? I think we all agree that we're here because we hope that PP will finally be the "spiritual successor" we are all waiting for more than two decades now.

I hope I am wrong (and it is just an assumption of mine, no fact) but I belief that PP is going to be the best thing since X-Com, but it will be somewhere between XCOM and X-Com. I do not think they will go "all the way" but some steps into the "right" direction, which is making a game that is more complex, more of an simulation.

I hope (and again this is highly speculative) that the whole package (tactical combat, geoscape with 4x elements, story, research, base building to name some) makes it a really good or great game of its own (and the closest thing we will have to X-Com). But we know to little about anything besides the tactical layer and even there is a lot of missing parts.

Like I stated before, we still have quite a ride before us and were it will end is still a mystery.

 

[Shog-goth]

but I belief that PP is going to be the best thing since X-Com

Oh no, what have you done! I try to anticipate for you the inevitable flood of "Fabulously Optimistic". You can thank me later.

 

[Shog-goth]

I call her "The Alien Queer".

 

[PanteraNera]

but I belief that PP is going to be the best thing since X-Com

Oh no, what have you done! I try to anticipate for you the inevitable flood of "Fabulously Optimistic". You can thank me later.

Uhm lol, to clear up what I mean, if XCOM is 50 and X-Com is 100 I guess that PP will be around 60-75. To me it would be fabulously optimistic to wish for 90-100.

And what I suspect what you and I and some other would love is 100-120.

 

[Mustawd]

if XCOM is 50 and X-Com is 100 I guess that PP will be around 60-75. To me it would be fabulously optimistic to wish for 90-100.

And what I suspect what you and I and some other would love is 100-120.

I agree 100%. This is super super premature, but it'd be nice if PP did well, and a sequel was made, maybe increasing the complexity/sim aspects. But we're getting way ahead of ourselves. At the moment, we don't even have inventory in!

 

[Shog-goth]

Uhm lol, to clear up what I mean, if XCOM is 50 and X-Com is 100 I guess that PP will be around 60-75.

If XCOM is graphite and X-Com diamond, the very best we can hope PP can be is Q-carbon: an element with carbon appearance, but tough like diamond.

 

[Viata]

I want more diamonds, fuck this shit.

 

[agris]

We wanted to use Q-carbon in our research, good thing it never got past the discussion stage.

As of 2018, only the discoverers themselves have reported successfully making Q-carbon.

 

[Shog-goth]

There is a parallel between the two:

As of 2018, only the developers themselves have reported successfully seeing Phoenix Point geoscape/inventory/classes/stealth/base management/etc.

 

[Israfael]

comments under that video...

What other games have been there that came close to them?

Brigade E5 and it's successors, if you may call them as such. Granted, its RTWP, but it's still tactical sim with full control over the toons (up to order of bullets in the clips). Lotsa bugs though and terribad translation

 

[Mustawd]

7,62 is supposed to be a good tactics game. Also RTwP.

 

[Galdred]

7,62 is supposed to be a good tactics game. Also RTwP.

It has a really great engine, but I hated the pseudo RPG aspect where you had to walk around to find missions. In JA2, you spent most of the time fighting. That said, I probably gave up on 7.62 too early: I think the way it implemented RTwP was really great (with clear information on the time to perform each action), and helped with the simulation aspect.
The game would really have been awesome if it had a general structure like JA2 (ie fight 80% of the time, 10%management, 5% walking around find loot/characters of interest, and 5% cursing the sector inventory system).

When it comes to coming close to X-COM/JA2, I have a really great memory of Warhammer 40K: Chaos Gate:
There was no management/research like in XCOM, and it was linear like Silent Storm, but it featured Space Marines, and it had ironman way before it became trendy.
It also had a lot of melee and jetpacks (not hover packs like XCOM, CG jetpacks allowed you to zip through the battlefield until you ran out of fuel).
It was definitely not X-COM, but I think it is the best 40K game ever made (DoW was great, but it was a mere RTS, while Chaos Gate was trying to be Silent Storm 40K).
Vehicule implementation was poor, though, and bolters were useless (who came with this Codex Astartes where 90% of the Marines are issued pea shooters that cannot pierce the armor of a Chaos Space Marine?).

 

[Grotesque]

Wait, I'm confused. Cover mechanics are still in this game? So no manual crouch function?

no

 

[PanteraNera]

Brigade E5 and it's successors, if you may call them as such. Granted, its RTWP, but it's still tactical sim with full control over the toons (up to order of bullets in the clips). Lotsa bugs though and terribad translation

7,62 is supposed to be a good tactics game. Also RTwP.

It has a really great engine, but I hated the pseudo RPG aspect where you had to walk around to find missions. In JA2, you spent most of the time fighting. That said, I probably gave up on 7.62 too early: I think the way it implemented RTwP was really great (with clear information on the time to perform each action), and helped with the simulation aspect.
The game would really have been awesome if it had a general structure like JA2 (ie fight 80% of the time, 10%management, 5% walking around find loot/characters of interest, and 5% cursing the sector inventory system).

I played both E5 and its successor 7,62 and yes they had done quite some things right. But ultimately they lacked a lot of polish, some areas felt unfinished and bugs. Also what Galdred said about the pseudo RPG aspect.
I really liked the inventory system and awesome weapon customization.
Also I liked the RtwP system while is still prefer turn-based. I actually liked RtwP more theoretically for the "realism" it enabled than practically as TB to me plays a lot "cleaner" straighter forward. Maybe I would have liked it more if they had turns like in the Combat Mission series (which I played quite a lot). CM had a planing phase were you planed the actions of your units, than you hit "go" and it would play out your commands for one minute in real time (no commands possible once you hit go), after which the next planing phase came. I really liked that system (played all their early games but stopped with CM:SF as I didn't liked the modern setting and haven't touched CM:N as I didn't liked their pricing model).

When it comes to coming close to X-COM/JA2, I have a really great memory of Warhammer 40K: Chaos Gate:
There was no management/research like in XCOM, and it was linear like Silent Storm, but it featured Space Marines, and it had ironman way before it became trendy.
It also had a lot of melee and jetpacks (not hover packs like XCOM, CG jetpacks allowed you to zip through the battlefield until you ran out of fuel).
It was definitely not X-COM, but I think it is the best 40K game ever made (DoW was great, but it was a mere RTS, while Chaos Gate was trying to be Silent Storm 40K).
Vehicule implementation was poor, though, and bolters were useless (who came with this Codex Astartes where 90% of the Marines are issued pea shooters that cannot pierce the armor of a Chaos Space Marine?).

Hm interesting, thanks for mentioning it, I'll give it a try

 

[Latelistener]

I think we all agree that we're here because we hope that PP will finally be the "spiritual successor" we are all waiting for more than two decades now.

It's okay. I can wait for another 20 years, as long as I have OpenXcom.

 

[LESS T_T]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/phoenix-point/phoenix-point-combat-mutations

Phoenix Point's mutation of XCOM shows the tactics revolution is still to come

Video version: