KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[xmd1997]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoi...enix_point_egx_rezzed_demo_build_over_1_hour/

At this point I think we can consider officially confirmed multiple shots per turn. Right, UnstableVoltage?

You can actually watch the video yourself where he demonstrated it (43:00). Right now it seems like pistols can fire four times and assault rifles can fire two times, this is if your soldiers have the TU's left. Seems like the heavy gun and sniper rifle are one shot only, makes sense considering how powerful they are though. Note that UV does stress that this change isn't 100% though so fingers crossed that it works out and makes it to the final game! Also, UV confirms that soldiers can use each other's weapons( once they implement the inventory system of course), snipers can pick up the heavies machine gun, heavies can pick up the sniper's sniper rifle etc though they'll receive penalties though.

 

[PanteraNera]

you are retarded indeed

From a guy that keeps addressing someone he calls an broken record.

 

[Viata]

We should complain about the lack of videos of the game taking place in forests, cave, beach or anything that is not an industrial place. That would be really cool.

 

[luinthoron]

X-com was a game that mixed genres in a unique and successful way.
To say the 2012 xcom started a genre by itself when it nearly abandoned some features that made the predecessor a hybrid, is more insulting and stupid.

Wait, what? No one has ever implied that 2012 XCOM started the genre. The genre has always been defined by the original UFO/X-Com. The point still stands, though, that these days it is mainly represented by Firaxis' XCOMs, and players are mostly familiar with these games' UI.

 

[Grotesque]

Loot based Action RPGs are a dime a dozen

I like how you invalidate your own attempt to make a point.

"Considering all the diablo clones hanging about"
thank you for pointing the obvious that I used as a rebuttal.

So the "quality" of a game being unoriginal and an attempt to a cashgrab to be named someone's clone" is a reason by itself to name an entire genre after that successful game?

X-com was a game that mixed genres in a unique and successful way.
To say the 2012 xcom started a genre by itself when it nearly abandoned some features that made the predecessor a hybrid, is more insulting and stupid.

LoL at that one that asks about fire rates for automatic weapons.
If this would be in, this feature would have to be represented in the UI and so, in no time you'll have a a complex "jumble of confusing mouse-driven buttons" very hard to make it also controller friendly.

But of course they will make different UI design for PC and console with all the extra cash!

Jesus christ on a very homosexual bike, you are a microcosm of the RPG Codex. You must be the most anal retentive person I've ever met on any forum. Does it even really matter if Jullian Gollop wants to call a genre X-Com? What does that really change? Back in my day we had Doom clones before we thought up the term FPS. We had the term Shooter or Shoot'um ups but that most often described side scrollers or bullet hell stuff. Doom Clone worked. it was convenient and much less of a mouthful than Real Time Shooting Game From the First Person Perspective Originated in Wolfenstein 3D. Then came the actual genre term FPS. Cool that's the genre. It's much easier to say Phoenix Point is an X-com style game. Until we figure out the proper terminology. Just calling it a TBS implies less. In the same way it's much easier to say Path of Exile or Torchlight are Diablo style games. It beats saying It's an Action RPG Except Actually It Doesn't Have Very Many RPG Elements Other Than Looting. But what do I know? I'm not hard at work trying to dissect the words of an overworked and underpaid community manager who has to deal with your shit. It's not actually going to change the game. Jullian Gollop isn't coming all the way from Bulgaria to touch your penis dude.

Yes, Diablo is a genre...
Now crawl the fuck back to all those other forums and spread the word to other idiots like yourself.

But what do I know?

Very little it seems for an old newfag that likes to boastfully review gaming history with zero impact in the context of the actual subject - is Diablo and its clones a different genre.

Besides failing to acknowledge that (especially in videogames) genre transcends theme, you make a mishmash between casual analogies between games made by gamers and whole genres.

You could've received some credibility if you would've said that the old x-com is like the film noir for the movie genres, and that would've been an interesting debate but you're just a dullard that has terms like "anal retentive" on "speed dial".

Jullian Gollop isn't coming all the way from Bulgaria to touch your penis dude.

Gollop may not but I'm sure you'll hop at the occasion if any penis is involved.

I'm not hard at work trying to dissect the words of an overworked and underpaid community manager who has to deal with your shit

Oh, the good old white knighting from the butthurt.
Don't worry about him, he'll have your example that overtaken and undertiered is way worse.

Where do you know from he's underpaid?
[Oh, he's actually Gollop...]

[*ahem*]

Hello Mr. Gollop!
Regarding Phoenix Point, where is the line you draw between commercial success and respecting a vision that pays homage to your past work?
Also trying to push the narrative that now XCOM is an entire new genre, do you think that this would consolidate your persona and legacy in gaming history?

PS: Please pay more your community manager because he gets frustrated easily and starts to confuse discord with his psychologist.
Also a payment bonus for the stressful interaction at RPG Codex would be welcomed.

From a guy that keeps addressing someone he calls an broken record.

Are you done?
Or do you really enjoy searching for gifs in a sore attempt to substantiate your lame ass comebacks?

Wait, what? No one has ever implied that 2012 XCOM started the genre

I am too out of energy to actually find in what presentation Gollop said that because the popularity of the new xcom and the many other games that copied the theme and its many gameplay concepts, xcom could be considered a genre on its own.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

really enjoy searching

Do you not download images from across the net in order to post them in the future?

 

[Mustawd]

Jullian Gollop isn't coming all the way from Bulgaria to touch your penis dude.

I laffed p. hard at that one. Thanks.

 

[Latelistener]

 

[PanteraNera]

Are you done?

Obviously not, I am a broken record after all.

I must say it was refreshing seeing Gollop wiping the floor with Solomon's XCOM.
My hype is on the rise again.

If I was only able to stay on point as you are

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

-You can capture aliens and interrogate them for further info like bases

Did they say anything about equipment that is needed for that capturing?
Nets? Gases? Tasers?

 

[Mustawd]

-You can capture aliens and interrogate them for further info like bases

Did they say anything about equipment that is needed for that capturing?
Nets? Gases? Tasers?

It was a bit muddled because he started talking about one of the monsters and how it shoots this goo that will capture your enemies. Then he transitioned to talking about that you you will be able to do the same through research. So I think the implication is if you beat that monster, you can research the ability to capture enemies.

 

[Mustawd]

-You can capture aliens and interrogate them for further info like bases

Did they say anything about equipment that is needed for that capturing?
Nets? Gases? Tasers?

It was a bit muddled because he started talking about one of the monsters and how it shoots this goo that will capture your enemies. Then he transitioned to talking about that you you will be able to do the same through research. So I think the implication is if you beat that monster, you can research the ability to capture enemies.

Actually, Taka-Haradin puolipeikko , I got confused. He actually didn't imply anything, he just mentioned it was possible. Went back and typed out what he actually said.

This is a goo-spitter head (pointing at the concept art). This will actually spit goo and trap your soldiers. One of the aliens' objectives is to actually kidnap your soldiers and inject them with the virus and turn them into something hideous.

If you're fighting a particular mutation that's not doing so well the aliens will then introduce new mutations and if that does well they produce more of them

If the aliens kidnap your soldiers they can inject the with a virus, interrogate them, an figure out the location of your base. And they'll become mutated and that mutation will head back to your base and actually start attacking you.

You can do the same to the aliens by the way. If you capture the aliens alive you can them interrogate them and find where their bases are, where their structures are.

 

[luinthoron]

Wait, what? No one has ever implied that 2012 XCOM started the genre

I am too out of energy to actually find in what presentation Gollop said that because the popularity of the new xcom and the many other games that copied the theme and its many gameplay concepts, xcom could be considered a genre on its own.

While the popularity of XCOM and its clones is what made this type of games numerous enough to be considered a genre of their own, he still also claims to have started the genre himself with the original UFO/X-Com, though.

 

[Cross]

The only influence nuXCOM had was demonstrating that turn-based games could have broad or even mainstream appeal. But it didn't lead to other developers making games like X-COM/XCOM, it led to other developers making turn-based tactics games (without any strategy components) that use nuXCOM's mechanics.

And even when it comes to those combat mechanics, nuXCOM influence is largely superficial. The 2AP system is nothing more than a simple variation on the move+attack system that has been used in countless of turn-based games prior to nuXCOM.

 

[Mustawd]

The only influence nuXCOM had was demonstrating that turn-based games could have broad or even mainstream appeal. But it didn't lead to other developers making games like X-COM/XCOM, it led to other developers making turn-based tactics games (without any strategy components) that use nuXCOM's mechanics.

And even when it comes to those combat mechanics, nuXCOM influence is largely superficial. The 2AP system is nothing more than a simple variation on the move+attack system that has been used in countless of turn-based games prior to nuXCOM.

It copies the UI as well. Ditto for the cinematic look. Ditto for the build up of soldiers stats/abilities. Ditto for classes. The similarities are many. It's like saying Titan Quest and Diablo 2 don't belong in the same genre merely because the underlying systems are different.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[agris]

The aspect of PP that I worry most about is Gollop's apparent willingness to "design for demographics" as opposed to what he likes and wants in a game. For example, the Venn diagram in the above post exemplifies this - it isn't a dilemma if you know what you want you game to have because you feel strongly about it. It's only a dilemma in the absence of a clear vision accompanied by a desire to achieve a specific goal. Also, I assume that X-COM's mechanics are what they are because he liked and wanted them, not because research and demographics indicated they were what the market was ripe for. This is principally because there wasn't really anything like X-COM when it was released, so the data didn't exist (as far as I know).

 

[Mustawd]

The aspect of PP that I worry most about is Gollop's apparent willingness to "design for demographics" as opposed to what he likes and wants in a game.

Can you specify what you mean by this?

 

[Israfael]

Focus groups (grenades priming story by Solomon comes to mind)

 

[agris]

The aspect of PP that I worry most about is Gollop's apparent willingness to "design for demographics" as opposed to what he likes and wants in a game.

Can you specify what you mean by this?

I thought I did in the following sentences. But beyond that, if you've been following this thread, you've seen the poll that was released, the change in mechanics for 2 action system, and the general waffling on mechanics in general. Now, as a potential customer, I'm happy with where Gollop is landing. TU-lite, multiple bases, free aiming, etc. What I come back to though is that these don't appear to be decisions driven as much by a vision, but rather by polling and concession to community feedback.

It feels as if the game is being dragged to where it should have been at the start- more of a X-COM successor than nuCOM. Contrast that to an alternate history where the game is initially too crunchy, too much like X-Com, and concessions have to be made for streamlining. The starting point informs us, and I very much could be wrong, where Gollop's head is with PP. That's what gives me concern.

 

[HansDampf]

Hypothetical: If Gollop's true vision for PP were a strict 2 AP system, would you accept it and trust he'd do it well? Or would you rather force him to switch to TUs, if you could?

 

[Ezeekiel]

Hypothetical: If Gollop's true vision for PP were a strict 2 AP system, would you accept it and trust he'd do it well? Or would you rather force him to switch to TUs, if you could?

Don't know about the others, but I would just not buy his game then... He can do what he wants. Forcing people to cater to you probably wouldn't have the intended results anyway.

 

[agris]

HansDampf I have no choice but to accept it, but I'd probably ignore PP much like I ignored nuCOM 1 and 2. I don't think anyone has forced him to change any mechanics, but as I said, I do have concerns for PP based on what I've already discussed.

To be fair, if it is a branding strategy, it's working. While I'm dismissive of nuCOM 1 and 2, I am paying attention to PP.

Your hypothetical is very similar to the actual evolution of the action system for PP, by the way. I think "skeptical interest" describes me the best. Definiltely not accept and trust.

 

[Grotesque]

I don't think anyone has forced him to change any mechanics

I like to imagine that Gollop the more works on this game, the more enjoys the process of designing a game with some depth, a return to his roots from times past.
Maybe the cash flow allows him not to feel the pressure to succeed at all costs and starts to truly experiment and to think about himself as an educator also.

On the other side, the level of complexity of R&D and base management in the game, the strategic layer and its interacting parts - all these could be dull and rushed and the game be no better than all those x-com wanna-be out there.

 

[PanteraNera]

The aspect of PP that I worry most about is Gollop's apparent willingness to "design for demographics" as opposed to what he likes and wants in a game. For example, the Venn diagram in the above post exemplifies this - it isn't a dilemma if you know what you want you game to have because you feel strongly about it.

I was thinking so and still think this as well.
Back than I was worried that PP will be an XCOM-clone cash-grab. Now I am worried that he might just not be able to please both crowds and even if he is that the finished product lacks soul.
Keep in mind he also is not developing with just two other guys as he did with X-Com but a team of 30+ people. He has much less direct control over what peoples are doing these days. But what is repeated again and again is always "Julian has the last word on it" and "it is his vision".

TU-lite, multiple bases, free aiming, etc. What I come back to though is that these don't appear to be decisions driven as much by a vision, but rather by polling and concession to community feedback.

It feels as if the game is being dragged to where it should have been at the start- more of a X-COM successor than nuCOM. Contrast that to an alternate history where the game is initially too crunchy, too much like X-Com, and concessions have to be made for streamlining. The starting point informs us, and I very much could be wrong, where Gollop's head is with PP. That's what gives me concern.

TU-lite have been in the game since the prototype on Fig. This was stated several times by the Community Manager. What Julian is currently testing because UV and the community kept bitching about it is multiple shots per turn that use TU's. Also on this occasion I want to remind that the willpower-system was designed by Allen Stoud (the lead writer). Also from the information I have Julian seems to encourage his team to come up with their own ideas. Free-aiming was planed from the start, as were multiple bases.

Just for exaggeration purpose one could say that when the geoscape is added, that it only is because the community kept bitching about it, while in truth it was planend from the beginning and just other parts of the game got developed first.
This reminds me of B. F. Skinner and Superstition in the pigeon.

If you need references I will offer but that would take some time