KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[agris]

TU-lite, multiple bases, free aiming, etc. What I come back to though is that these don't appear to be decisions driven as much by a vision, but rather by polling and concession to community feedback.

It feels as if the game is being dragged to where it should have been at the start- more of a X-COM successor than nuCOM. Contrast that to an alternate history where the game is initially too crunchy, too much like X-Com, and concessions have to be made for streamlining. The starting point informs us, and I very much could be wrong, where Gollop's head is with PP. That's what gives me concern.

TU-lite have been in the game since the prototype on Fig. This was stated several times by the Community Manager. What Julian is currently testing because UV and the community kept bitching about it is multiple shots per turn that use TU's. Also on this occasion I want to remind that the willpower-system was designed by Allen Stoud (the lead writer). Also from the information I have Julian seems to encourage his team to come up with their own ideas. Free-aiming was planed from the start, as were multiple bases.

Just for exaggeration purpose one could say that when the geoscape is added, that it only is because the community kept bitching about, while in truth it was planend from the beginning and just other parts of the game got developed first.
This reminds me of B. F. Skinner and Superstition in the pigeon.

If you need references I will offer but that would take some time

No thanks, I'm not trying to exaggerate. So what has been added or removed since the Fig campaign? Apparently my memory, augmented as it is by this thread, is not pulling its weight. Free aim and multiple shots.. is that is? Perhaps I'm being overly negative towards Gollop.

 

[PanteraNera]

No thanks, I'm not trying to exaggerate. So what has been added or removed since the Fig campaign? Apparently my memory, augmented as it is by this thread, is not pulling its weight. Free aim and multiple shots.. is that is? Perhaps I'm being overly negative towards Gollop.

Visually a lot has changed, no mechanical-horror creatures (there were some concepts on Fig) complete visual redesign of at least one human faction (New Jericho) which looks an awful lot like XCOM now, personally I feel like they are leaning more and more towards XCOM visually, I liked the prototype on Fig way more as it looked grim and gritty. Generally one can say what ever you saw on Fig (screenshots and concept) is not valid anymore.
Also in a surveys results Gollop concluded it would be "wise" to focus on PC, later we found out that the UI is being designed with controller-support in mind.
Than there is other sentences on the Fig like PP "being the master of the skies", some have thought it meant air interception, which seem to be very unlikely to get into the game.

Like I said Free aim was planned from the start.

On the tactical side only multiple shots have been added for testing purpose.

But to be fair, so far we only have seen one map, with one non-player faction, with three classes, with four different weapons, with some early game skills, with only two types of alien creatures (while one type has two different mutations set ups), with a currently not-working vehicle.

Next step will be that they add the inventory system for the Backer Build One on April the 30th.

So much is not shown (that I assume is in the making, at least there is no information that anything got scrapped so far) it is hard to tell what we will get in the end.

 

[Shog-goth]

With PP, Julian has the possibility to restore the paradigm created by himself, humiliated by a crowd of cheap imitations and corrupted by XCOMs. It's up to him to prove that he can stay true to his simulationist roots, and bring back the original mechanics - in different form but same substance, like current TUs and multiple shots - is the right way to achieve this goal and take back the throne usurpated by Firaxis and Solomon. If he fails I don't know when such an opportunity will arise again.

 

[agris]

Shog-goth check out Xenonauts and the upcoming Xenonauts 2.

 

[Shog-goth]

I played Xenonauts but I haven't found the "magic" I was looking for, imho it lacks "soul" and it's too much derivative. I need the old Blade Runner...

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Y'all fellas checked out Terran Shield?
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/terran-shield-a-new-old-style-tbs-game.121025/

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Y'all fellas checked out Terran Shield?
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/terran-shield-a-new-old-style-tbs-game.121025/

Premise looks good, but I'm doubtful about their ability to deliver.
Funding will probably turn out to be an issue.

 

[Grotesque]

I played Xenonauts but I haven't found the "magic" I was looking for

The more you played x-com at a younger age, the chance to find the "magic" nowadays is less.
Games played at an impressionable age during what is called the golden era of gaming industry ('89-2002) can't be matched, even by their creators.

On the other side there are exceptions like when I played Fallout 1.5: Resurrection where because I was so glued to the game I kept postponing taking a shit until I was in pain.
But that game was what is considered a "carbon copy" of Fallout and the level of detail and passion poured in that game was outstanding.

 

[Mustawd]

The more you played x-com at a younger age, the chance to find the "magic" nowadays is less.

Man I remember the first time I booted up X-COM on my cousin's PS1. I've always hated reading manuals. Even back then I thought they were dumb. "Just put it in the game" I would say. But X-com sucked me in so much that I read the manual front to cover. Trying to figure out what all these goddamn UI buttons meant.

nuXCOM was fun and when I finished it I couldn't stop smiling all day. BUt it doesn't touch that feleing of amazement of x-com. SO much depth. So much drama. So much fun.

RIP.

PP feels like dating again after your wife has died. You know that the person you're dating is good and they're trying hard. And you might evne grow to love them. But nothing can touch your past wife.

Welp....that was a strange analogy. Ehh, fuck it. It's p. accurate.

 

[Viata]

Keep in mind he also is not developing with just two other guys as he did with X-Com but a team of 30+ people. He has much less direct control over what peoples are doing these days

So small dev is the best kind of dev, as always.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Xenonauts 2 is looking much more interesting, while this is just turning into a nu xcom clone as time goes on.

 

[PanteraNera]

Keep in mind he also is not developing with just two other guys as he did with X-Com but a team of 30+ people. He has much less direct control over what peoples are doing these days

So small dev is the best kind of dev, as always.

Actually with someone who wants to make a visionary new game, I think yes a smaller team would probably be better.
On the other hand with a bigger team there are more people that might add something useful, bringing in new perspectives.
But that is the point, new perspectives are actually not what the person that had this "vision" had in mind. So it is watered down.

Probably, if one wants to generalize it, a bigger team is probably more likely to produce an balanced easily accessible game and a smaller is more likely to produce something new / visionary / fresh.

 

[ArchAngel]

Xenonauts 2 is looking much more interesting, while this is just turning into a nu xcom clone as time goes on.

We don't know much about Xeno 2 yet, but what I read so far it is mostly Xeno 1 with a bit better graphics and no air interception. And that is not very exciting. Xeno 1 was only a decent game, much weaker than Open Xcom and weaker than nuXcom with Long War mods.

On the other hand PP is turning out to be a much better version of Long War Xcom with plenty of new features Xcom or Long War didn't have

 

[Ezeekiel]

I played Xenonauts but I haven't found the "magic" I was looking for

The more you played x-com at a younger age, the chance to find the "magic" nowadays is less.
Games played at an impressionable age during what is called the golden era of gaming industry ('89-2002) can't be matched, even by their creators.

On the other side there are exceptions like when I played Fallout 1.5: Resurrection where because I was so glued to the game I kept postponing taking a shit until I was in pain.
But that game was what is considered a "carbon copy" of Fallout and the level of detail and passion poured in that game was outstanding.

Xenonauts is a lot more sterile(?) than the old x-coms though, lacking atmosphere (esp. compared to tftd) and a number of features in the tac battles, as well as blander art direction, so I don't think it's just nostalgia when people end up a bit disappointed in it.

Haven't trid out FO:1.5 Resurrection, so with that ringing endorsement I suppose I should.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

With PP, Julian has the possibility to restore the paradigm created by himself, humiliated by a crowd of cheap imitations and corrupted by XCOMs. It's up to him to prove that he can stay true to his simulationist roots, and bring back the original mechanics - in different form but same substance, like current TUs and multiple shots - is the right way to achieve this goal and take back the throne usurpated by Firaxis and Solomon. If he fails I don't know when such an opportunity will arise again.

or maybe he just wants some easy money and fuck whoever wants a decent game.
have you followed the market in the last 15 years?
-dude gets an original idea
-dude makes millions
-all the others produce clones and clones fighting for scraps
problem is there are enough idiots in this world happily buying clones (or completely disregarding these original ideas and buying the latest piece of shit journos tell them to, but this is another story) so this means it must be profitable.
make a clone, it's a low effort job: easy money. who would blame him?
my worst fear is this could turn out as a hybrid of x-com and its aborted child, taking the worst of both worlds, with not enough complexity but gimmicky enough to be annoying.

 

[Shog-goth]

The more you played x-com at a younger age, the chance to find the "magic" nowadays is less.
Games played at an impressionable age during what is called the golden era of gaming industry ('89-2002) can't be matched, even by their creators.

When I played X-Com in '94 I was already 22 years old and not so impressionable, the difference is that the great games from the golden era were really of "solid gold" while in current dark ages they are, almost all, only "pyrite plated".

or maybe he just wants some easy money and fuck whoever wants a decent game.

Right, this is a real possibility (already emerged ITT). The only thing we can do is stay vigilant and try, making our voices heard, to influence as much as possible the development toward a simulation like original X-Com.

 

[Shog-goth]

 

[Alienman]

Christopher Odd but not Retcon Raider. Hmm.

Edit:

The hell, no % on shot.

Edit 2:

The music that starts at 27:11. Awesome.

 

[Latelistener]

The music that starts at 27:11. Awesome.

Well, they brought John Broomhall, soo...

Spoiler

 

[Shog-goth]

Well, they brought John Broomhall, soo...

Broomhall will join later in development.

 

[Shog-goth]

 

[udm]

Wait, I'm confused. Cover mechanics are still in this game? So no manual crouch function?

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

 

[Latelistener]

Wait, I'm confused. Cover mechanics are still in this game? So no manual crouch function?

I'm confused as well. That was the plan:

Speaking of cover; the cover in Phoenix Point is dynamic. Instead of cover just being "low" or "high" with a fixed stat modifier, the cover in Phoenix Point will be a physical barrier, which will vary depending on the size and shape of the object being used as cover.

But in the demo we see exactly the opposite.

 

[UnstableVoltage]

Wait, I'm confused. Cover mechanics are still in this game? So no manual crouch function?

I'm confused as well. That was the plan:

Speaking of cover; the cover in Phoenix Point is dynamic. Instead of cover just being "low" or "high" with a fixed stat modifier, the cover in Phoenix Point will be a physical barrier, which will vary depending on the size and shape of the object being used as cover.

But in the demo we see exactly the opposite.

Cover works exactly as described. It's a dynamic physical barrier. You don't even have to be next to it. However, if you are next to it, you will automatically attempt to tuck in behind it. You will crouch behind anything represented as "half cover" (which I think from memory is anything below 1m heigh), and full cover (around 2m or taller) you will hide behind but be able to "step out" when taking a shot.