KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Thal]

I haven't followed the development of this game that closely lately, but I still have to say I don't fully understand the negativity that seems to have gripped this thread recently. As a disclaimer, I consider UFO: Enemy Unknown the best game ever made, so I suppose I form the a "part of the core audience".

I never played the nuXcoms, or any other spiritual successor, which is also the reason why I find this project appealing. It's because they seem to have fixed everything bad in nuXcoms. The reboot didn't have Geoscape, and so did away with the freeform gameplay and procedurally generated missions. It also had a very simplified combat system instead of time units of UFO. This game has both doesn't it? Now, I'm sure some will complain that the new movement system isn't time units. However, if you can stop during movement and change your mind, while numbers are running down under the hood, it's pretty much the same. This is one type of streamlining that I don't mind. Replaying UFO, the game is a bit slow. If you can do the same thing, but only faster, then it's not a downgrade. Also, if I recall correctly, nuXcoms also didn't have proper destructible environment, but PP has it. You also have larger teams in this game than in nuXcoms, providing you with more tactical options. The pillars of UFO's success that ensured endless replayability, which were lacking in nuXcoms, seem to have been retained here. And then there's the new evolving aliens feature, which to me is a genuine improvement to the UFO formula.

Atmosphere? I don't feel betrayed because they changed art direction. That's not what made UFO the best game of all time (although it was great as well). The most important thing is that they can replicate the terror you feel when facing Chrysalids in night missions. Sure, I'd prefer the body horror aesthetics, but the actual thing that made Chrysalids terrifying wasn't the graphics or audio, but the fact that your dudes were squishy, while they were incredibly fast and durable, and would come of out darkness or lurk behind corners. That too was gameplay. UFO was all gameplay. How disgusting something looks like is at this point completely irrelevant. We are all desensitized to violence anyway. Look at The Butcher in Diablo. What made your kid self crap himself was the line yeah, but most importantly the fact that he was faster than you and could kill you in seconds. There was no escape. Most people probably didn't even get a good look at the room until killing him.

I also question the attitude that they can't finish the game with all the promised features. While the progress seems slow, it is progress. You can disagree with some of the choices, but everything they show, they seem to be able to implement or have implemented. Compare PP updates to Underworld Ascendant ones and you'll see a stark difference. We've seen the game in a playable state a long time ago, with very few issues, only features that weren't implemented. While UA on the other hand is a mess a week before release.

 

[Achilles]

Do I have a choice? I don't think it's up to me.

My point is that if you settle for less, you'll not fight for more.

I understand your point. I think that both are possible, enjoying what's there and asking for more, but maybe I've just become soft in my old age.

 

[Achilles]

As a disclaimer, I consider UFO: Enemy Unknown the best game ever made

We are now best friends.

 

[Shog-goth]

I've just become soft in my old age

Please don't talk about age, probably I was already older than many here when X-Com comes out in '93.

 

[Alpharius]

Well, what I'm ACTUALLY asking for is for some major development studios to go fourth and make games that don't overdo the steamlining. So maybe you're right, maybe asking for that IS unrealistic for anyone.
What a sad state of affairs.

If you'll look around you'll notice that the RPG genre is practically dead.

Nah. Pathfinder Kingmaker was released recently, Underrail will be getting an expansion and Colony Ship rpg (ex New World) ought to be released in a year or two(or three?). Doesn't look that bad to me.

 

[Latelistener]

Well, what I'm ACTUALLY asking for is for some major development studios to go fourth and make games that don't overdo the steamlining. So maybe you're right, maybe asking for that IS unrealistic for anyone.
What a sad state of affairs.

If you'll look around you'll notice that the RPG genre is practically dead.

Nah. Pathfinder Kingmaker was released recently, Underrail will be getting an expansion and Colony Ship rpg (ex New World) ought to be released in a year or two(or three?). Doesn't look that bad to me.

You quote the previous post where the guy was talking about "asking major development studios" to "go fourth and make games that don't overdo the steamlining".
Then you cut my answer where I'm saying that Indiana is the only big budget RPG in development I know of (and it's not even a "hardcore" genre like turn-based strategies).
Then you proceed with examples of niche games that every Codexer is aware of from small indie studios that never did anything "streamlined" to begin with (yet).

 

[Alpharius]

Well, what I'm ACTUALLY asking for is for some major development studios to go fourth and make games that don't overdo the steamlining. So maybe you're right, maybe asking for that IS unrealistic for anyone.
What a sad state of affairs.

If you'll look around you'll notice that the RPG genre is practically dead.

Nah. Pathfinder Kingmaker was released recently, Underrail will be getting an expansion and Colony Ship rpg (ex New World) ought to be released in a year or two(or three?). Doesn't look that bad to me.

You quote the previous post where the guy was talking about "asking major development studios" to "go fourth and make games that don't overdo the steamlining".
Then you cut my answer where I'm saying that Indiana is the only big budget RPG in development I know of (and it's not even a "hardcore" genre like turn-based strategies).
Then you proceed with examples of niche games that every Codexer is aware of from small indie studios that never did anything "streamlined" to begin with (yet).

Ah ok, i might have failed a reading comprehension check somewhere. AAA RPGs being dead != RPGs being dead though and your post reads like it is.

 

[luinthoron]

So I keep hearing the complaints about "dumbed-down UI" and I just don't see how you get to this conclusion. Looking at the UFO UI in comparison, what exactly are we missing?

Left hand and right hand weapons/items - replaced with three quick choices on the wheel, actually giving you one extra option here.

Move up/down - not really necessary, accomplished easily with normal movement UI.

Viewing different floors - mouse wheel in any modern UI, buttons unnecessary.

Map - the only really missing feature, I guess, but is it even necessary?

Stances - feature not present in game, but could be easily added to the present UI if necessary.

Inventory - present.

Center on unit - present.

Unit selection - present.

End turn for unit - present.

Hide roof - unnecessary, done automatically.

Options - present

End turn - present.

Retreat - while we have not seen it in function, it has been confirmed that you can choose to leave a mission, for example stealing what you need and getting out after that.

Reserve TU - replaced with movement range indication and overwatch mechanic.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

 

[Latelistener]

Left hand and right hand weapons/items - replaced with three quick choices on the wheel, actually giving you one extra option here.
Move up/down - not really necessary, accomplished easily with normal movement UI.
Viewing different floors - mouse wheel in any modern UI, buttons unnecessary.
Map - the only really missing feature, I guess, but is it even necessary?
Stances - feature not present in game, but could be easily added to the present UI if necessary.
Inventory - present.
Hide roof - unnecessary, done automatically.
Retreat - while we have not seen it in function, it has been confirmed that you can choose to leave a mission, for example stealing what you need and getting out after that.
Reserve TU - replaced with movement range indication and overwatch mechanic.

So I keep hearing the complaints about "dumbed-down UI" and I just don't see how you get to this conclusion.

 

[Shog-goth]

So I keep hearing the complaints about "dumbed-down UI" and I just don't see how you get to this conclusion. Looking at the UFO UI in comparison, what exactly are we missing?

It's all about inherent complexity, a controller-optimized UI for a strategy/tactical game needs to streamline player inputs minimizing cursor movement, clicks and menu nesting. If you design the whole mechanics from the start around these restraining principles, it's inevitable that you'll end up with a dumbed down system compared to the potential of a PC-centric one.

 

[geno]

I can't rate your post so assume that you have an extra incline

 

[Stavrophore]

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

 

[Stavrophore]

So every enemy in PP is crustacean, since they all have external skeleton?

 

[Shog-goth]

So every enemy in PP is crustacean, since they all have external skeleton?

Originally every animal phylum was planned, but now probably they doesn't fit the story anymore...

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

edit.
Alternative picture upload for those who don't see original.

Spoiler

 

[Shog-goth]

The most scary and horrible thing seen so far. It says a lot.

 

[luinthoron]

So I keep hearing the complaints about "dumbed-down UI" and I just don't see how you get to this conclusion. Looking at the UFO UI in comparison, what exactly are we missing?

It's all about inherent complexity, a controller-optimized UI for a strategy/tactical game needs to streamline player inputs minimizing cursor movement, clicks and menu nesting. If you design the whole mechanics from the start around these restraining principles, it's inevitable that you'll end up with a dumbed down system compared to the potential of a PC-centric one.

You still haven't sufficiently explained how an UI retaining all the relevant functions or expanding them (additional abilities, keybindings, enhanced free aim, etc) would be considered dumbed down. When you compare it to the old mouse-only UI of UFO, it is clearly offering you a much better experience with the same capabilities. I can see how one might see its similarity to XCOM and fear that the gameplay could become similar to XCOM's due to this as well, but looking at the UI and its functions calmly, there is nothing in the UI itself that would be an immediate cause for concern. Whether or not Snapshot may make any (further) regrettable decisions regarding gameplay, the UI is not to blame for them.

 

[The Fish]

So I keep hearing the complaints about "dumbed-down UI" and I just don't see how you get to this conclusion. Looking at the UFO UI in comparison, what exactly are we missing?

It's all about inherent complexity, a controller-optimized UI for a strategy/tactical game needs to streamline player inputs minimizing cursor movement, clicks and menu nesting. If you design the whole mechanics from the start around these restraining principles, it's inevitable that you'll end up with a dumbed down system compared to the potential of a PC-centric one.

You still haven't sufficiently explained how an UI retaining all the relevant functions or expanding them (additional abilities, keybindings, enhanced free aim, etc) would be considered dumbed down. When you compare it to the old mouse-only UI of UFO, it is clearly offering you a much better experience with the same capabilities. I can see how one might see its similarity to XCOM and fear that the gameplay could become similar to XCOM's due to this as well, but looking at the UI and its functions calmly, there is nothing in the UI itself that would be an immediate cause for concern. Whether or not Snapshot may make any (further) regrettable decisions regarding gameplay, the UI is not to blame for them.

I haven't played the alpha but from what I've seen the inventory system seems a lot less detailed than the original x-com. In the original x-com you can pass ammo and weapons between units, re-eqiup units at the landing zone, prime a grenade while still holding it to create a dead man switch. There was an extra layer of complexity with item management that allowed for flexibility in planning and created the space for unusual contingencies, like needing to pick up enemy weapons to finish the mission after blowing up all your supplies (as I remember seeing a streamer do once). All of that's lost with an excessively prescriptive ability system managed by strict and artitrary limitations. There are lots of potentially interesting dilemmas that the game designer may never expect to happen or design to happen with more complex systems; the designer's lack of prescience causes them to cut out a lot of potential in order to satisfy the immediate design goals of balance, ease of use and clarity.

As an aside, I expect the ballistic system to not be nearly as wild as it was in the original x-com, this will have a large affect on the feel of the game. If I recall correctly, the hit location in x-com was based on the grid and had a large varience, causing some very unexpected friendly fire. Even if it's unfair it's still fun, and getting good at handling probabilistic outcomes is still a skill. In phoenix point even if bullets land towards the outer edges of the aiming circle they aren't going to land further than a tile on side of the target (within a reasonable range), even if you increased the size of the aiming circle it would just mean more bullets going into the sky.

edit: I just realised that I didn't really address your point and went off on a rant instead. Bad inventory UI implies bad inventory system in this case, maybe.

 

[ArchAngel]

You will be able to pick up enemy weapons in PP. And equipping before combat didn't exist in beta because it was not implemented yet. I should exist in upcoming backer beta.

As for priming explosives and doing suicide runs.. that was not a core feature but something extra and for fun. It was about as important as pickpocketing was in Baldur's Gate.

I finished multiple runs of X-com on hardest difficulty and ironman (Open Xcom supports ironman) without ever doing a single suicide run with my soldiers. Just like I did multiple playthroughs of BG where I didn't pickpocket anyone.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

https://phoenixpoint.info/blog/2018/11/7/backer-build-three

Backer Build Three
With Backer Build Three just around the corner, we’re taking this time to run you through some of the features and changes to expect to see. At the time of writing this, finishing touches are being applied. As a result, the released version may vary slightly from this update in appearance and features.

The Geoscape
According to our Twitter and Facebook surveys, the thing most of you have been waiting for. The Geoscape strategic layer is where everything comes together. We still have a lot of features and functionality to add, such as the events system, base management, research & development, but the basics are there to move from mission to mission.

One the Geoscape, you can explore the map to find scavenging sites, Havens, alien nests and abandoned Phoenix Project bases. You will be able to save and reload your progress from the Geoscape screen.

The Geoscape

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The Geoscape

You will start with one base, one transport and a squad of 4, plus an Armadillo APC. You will have to carefully explore the points of interest on the map to discover the various different locations. Your transport only has a limited amount of fuel, affecting the distance it can travel. You can use resources to build refueling stations at certain locations to extend your range, or use resources for an emergency refueling. That latter is less expensive and useful if you have nowhere to build a refueling station, but it’s a one off boost. Plan your exploration wisely.

Explored sites

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Explored sites

As you uncover the various locations around the map you will reveal scavenging sites which you can clear for resources. Faction and independent Havens which may come under attack. In the above image we can see an independent Haven being attacked. The closing circle around the Haven icon shows us which way the battle is currently going (in this case the Haven ais winning) and will tick down as the battle nears its conclusion. If you arrive there fast enough, you can help defend the Haven in exchange for resources and reputation.

You will also find new Phoenix Project bases which will increase your range and squad capacity, along with giving you another transport and allowing you to hire soldiers for the food resource.

Additionally, alien nests will start to spawn on the map if you wish to take the fight to the enemy!

Squad Management
From the Geoscape screen you will also be able to access the squad roster.

The Squad Roster

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The Squad Roster

The roster will allow you to see all of your available soldiers (and vehicles) at a glance, along with their class, status, current loadout and which facility or transport they are assigned to. From this screen you can reassign your available units to different locations or access their gear loadout.

The Loadout screen

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The Loadout screen

From the loadout screen you can reassign your starting equipment between your soldiers along with any additional items you have recovered from previous missions. You can re-equip armor, weapons and additional consumables.

New Environments
In the previous Backer Builds, all battles took place in one variety of New Jericho Haven. Backer Build Three sees the introduction of more variety: Run-down and dilapidated scavenger sites, neutral Havens and a variety of different New Jericho Havens. In addition you will also see alien nests for the first time!

A Haven defense mission

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A Haven defense mission

The Mist
We have added the first implementation of The Mist to the tactical missions. Spawned by certain enemies (such as the Mist Sentinel), The Mist will slowly start to crawl across the map. In the final game The Mist will have a variety of effects. In Backer Build Three it blocks your line of sight and gives the enemy vision of any units you have in contact with it.

The Mist and a Mist Sentinel

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The Mist and a Mist Sentinel

New Enemy Types
Speaking of Sentinels, we have two main new enemy types in Backer Build Three. We have the aforementioned Sentinels which currently come in three varieties. We’ve already given away the purpose of the Mist Sentinel. We will let you discover what the others do for yourself. Sentinels are usually dormant until they become aware of your presence. They take a single turn of preparation before using their main ability. Use this to your advantage.

The Sentinel Variants

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The Sentinel Variants

Mindfraggers are fast little buggers. They will scuttle across the map and attempt to latch onto any unsuspecting soldier, taking control of them. Your Technician has an ability to remove them, so try to keep him safe. In an emergency you can always attempt to shoot them off…….. it isn’t recommended.

A Mindfragger

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A Mindfragger

New Class Abilities
Several new abilities have been added to the 4 classes included in Backer Build Three. These open up more tactical opportunities which might get you out of a pinch. Be warned, such abilities can take their toll on the soldier using them, greatly reducing their Will Power.

Below: The Heavy’s new “Rage Burst” ability which consumes a high amount of Will Points to unload an entire magazine of ammo between two target points.

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After Backer Build Three is delivered, we will be updating our roadmap and starting to reveal the next stage of development with things you can look forward to in Backer Build Four.

Delivery
As before, when the build goes out to backers you will receive an email from Xsolla with your link and download instructions. We will be making an announcement soon detailing the date and time that the build will start going out. We send a huge number of emails out to backers at this time so it can take several hours for all the emails to be pushed down the pipeline. Also be sure to check any spam or promotional folders on your email account, and whitelist Xsolla.com

November 9, 2018

e.
You doing that on purpose with those announcement tweets UnstableVoltage ?

 

[ArchAngel]

I don't like that Loadout screen UI. Why is that lower equipment screen so small that we cannot even see 3 full rows of items?!

Soldier choosing screen needs to learn some stuff from Long War 2 UI and mods for it. I hope in future they can add icons that represent different abilities that classes have, not just a class icon. When we have multiple of same class, we want to know from this screen which one has one ability and which one has another ability so we can make informed choices on who to take on mission.

 

[GrainWetski]

The answer lies in the button prompts on that screen.

 

[Alienman]

Is that the geoscape now? Dark and ugly?

Actually considering refund if it is possible. It keep getting worse tbh.