KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[ArchAngel]

The game is free on steam for the weekend if anyone want to try it, complete of the first 2 DLCs.

Personally I don't think it is all doom and gloom but it has that low budget "cheap" feel that it is difficult to describe.

Because it is low budget lol. Anyone expecting them to be able put as much money into it as Firaxis did is deluding themselves. And still gameplay is 2x better than Firaxis shit.

I know it is low budget, but I meant something different for feel.

Games like Darkest Dungeon or Battle Brothers are extremely low budget (even lower than PP) but they do not feel cheap at all, they feel extremely polished. Which is not the case with Phoenix Point.

Well those games are even more low budged. PP unfortunately went into group where it almost looks like Firaxis Xcom level but they don't have enough resources to polish it like Firaxis did.

 

[baud]

Not to mention they got that sweet paycheck from Epic,

didn''t they got some money from Microsoft too?
Also maybe from Google for the Stadia version

Though in both cases, maybe the money went towards the ports on xbox and stadia

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

The game is free on steam for the weekend if anyone want to try it, complete of the first 2 DLCs.

Personally I don't think it is all doom and gloom but it has that low budget "cheap" feel that it is difficult to describe.

Because it is low budget lol. Anyone expecting them to be able put as much money into it as Firaxis did is deluding themselves. And still gameplay is 2x better than Firaxis shit.

I know it is low budget, but I meant something different for feel.

Games like Darkest Dungeon or Battle Brothers are extremely low budget (even lower than PP) but they do not feel cheap at all, they feel extremely polished. Which is not the case with Phoenix Point.

Well those games are even more low budged. PP unfortunately went into group where it almost looks like Firaxis Xcom level but they don't have enough resources to polish it like Firaxis did.

Out of curiosity,
has anyone on the council ever raised the question of going back to the original rag tag lovecraftian body horror game vision, from ye olde days of figstarter?
And if yes, what was the answer?

Serious question, not trolling or whatnot.

 

[PanteraNera]

Well those games are even more low budged. PP unfortunately went into group where it almost looks like Firaxis Xcom level but they don't have enough resources to polish it like Firaxis did.

Yes they are even more low budget, that is the fucking point!
They most certainly do not feel lower budget, or in other words more half assed, than PP!
Neither Darkest Dungeon, nor Battle Brothers look anything like Firaxis Xcom, but they are both, at least to me way better, way more polished and way more fun than PP ever will be.
Because they have soul!

I wonder what would happened if Gollop sticked to the original vision, not only visually!
At one point they started to change the lore, because it didn't fit the visuals anymore!

Do not forget, originally this game was about body horror, John Carpenter's "The Thing".
It could have attracted more people, by being different.
But that needs balls, balls no one had at Snapshot Games.

 

[ArchAngel]

The game is free on steam for the weekend if anyone want to try it, complete of the first 2 DLCs.

Personally I don't think it is all doom and gloom but it has that low budget "cheap" feel that it is difficult to describe.

Because it is low budget lol. Anyone expecting them to be able put as much money into it as Firaxis did is deluding themselves. And still gameplay is 2x better than Firaxis shit.

I know it is low budget, but I meant something different for feel.

Games like Darkest Dungeon or Battle Brothers are extremely low budget (even lower than PP) but they do not feel cheap at all, they feel extremely polished. Which is not the case with Phoenix Point.

Well those games are even more low budged. PP unfortunately went into group where it almost looks like Firaxis Xcom level but they don't have enough resources to polish it like Firaxis did.

Out of curiosity,
has anyone on the council ever raised the question of going back to the original rag tag lovecraftian body horror game vision, from ye olde days of figstarter?
And if yes, what was the answer?

Serious question, not trolling or whatnot.

We did but it was clear early on that they don't have resources to do such big changes.

 

[Shog-goth]

We did but it was clear early on that they don't have resources to do such big changes.

What changes? That was the initial vision. There was nothing to change, just keep it without steering on trivial sci-fi tropes to try to grab the attention of the mainstream, instead of creating a game with a soul as it was introduced in the pitch. The resources would have been more than sufficient, if only they hadn't changed everything, had clear ideas and, above all, intention to keep their promises. But it is evident at this point that Gollop's don't give a damn at all at loyal fans, but rather his retirement.

This very thread is the precise chronology of his betrayal.

 

[mediocrepoet]

don't give a damn at all at loyal fans, but rather his retirement.

Ok, sure, but do you seriously figure that anyone wants to sacrifice the security of their retirement for whatever your specific desires are for a game? That's a pretty tall order. I can't think of anyone who would do something like that. Jesus Christ after learning how to program, perhaps.

 

[Shog-goth]

Ok, sure, but do you seriously figure that anyone wants to sacrifice the security of their retirement for whatever your specific desires are for a game? That's a pretty tall order. I can't think of anyone who would do something like that. Jesus Christ after learning how to program, perhaps.

 

[ArchAngel]

We did but it was clear early on that they don't have resources to do such big changes.

What changes? That was the initial vision. There was nothing to change, just keep it without steering on trivial sci-fi tropes to try to grab the attention of the mainstream, instead of creating a game with a soul as it was introduced in the pitch. The resources would have been more than sufficient, if only they hadn't changed everything, had clear ideas and, above all, intention to keep their promises. But it is evident at this point that Gollop's don't give a damn at all at loyal fans, but rather his retirement.

This very thread is the precise chronology of his betrayal.

Well people should have complained before release. After release it was a lost cause.

 

[Mazisky]

If Gollop tried to simply make a 1:1 version of the original Ufo Defense with just some QOL (think Diablo 2 resurrected) it would have been way more succesfull than Phoenix Point.

 

[ArchAngel]

If Gollop tried to simply make a 1:1 version of the original Ufo Defense with just some QOL (think Diablo 2 resurrected) it would have been way more succesfull than Phoenix Point.

Nah. PP is still more successful than Xenonauts.

 

[Parabalus]

If there is one thing that Snapshot Games is really consistent in, than it is breaking promises.

This mess is such an overlap of different incompatible levels, concepts and ideas, that I don't even think they know anymore what they promised or should have created to keep them. With DLCs they just added more shit to the pile, that's all.

Still better than nuXCOM.

 

[Jaedar]

If Gollop tried to simply make a 1:1 version of the original Ufo Defense with just some QOL (think Diablo 2 resurrected) it would have been way more succesfull than Phoenix Point.

Nah. PP is still more successful than Xenonauts.

Is it though? I don't doubt it has sold more, but does it have higher scores, and has it made more money when you consider the relative budgets?

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

TL;DR
Going by the publicly available docs, Snapshot is in good financial situation. Labour in Bulgaria is quite cheap, so a lower budget still shouldn't prevent reasonable quality. So, IMO, no reason why PP should have this feeling of cheap, unpolished shovelware. Of course, there's a Bulgarian saying: ако ми се работеше толкова, колкото ме мързи... (If I only was as hardworking, as I'm lazy).


It's reasonably easy to get info about resources of companies in Bulgaria. They have a registry akin to Companies House in UK, called Trade Registry. Info for Snapshot Games is here. You can get their statement as of 31 Dec 2020, as BG financial year ends up same as calendar year (not like in the UK). Of course, all docs are in BG so I'll give you quick summary (stuff in parens is for 2019), all values in thousands BGN.

Total long-term assets: 53 (79)
Total short-term assets: 725 (381)
Of that cash: 164 (249)
Of that receivables and advances: 561 (132)
(prob that epic money, later there's a receivables from clients listed for 490k BGN, that would be ~280-300k USD)

Total net revenue: 330 (255)
Revenue from current year: 97 (75)

Passives: 351 (130)

Expenses for staff salaries: 4054 (3142)
Expenses for social security: 377 (354)
(sad is they have expenses for unused annual leave, so there must have been some crunch time).
Nowhere there's any data about head count, so not sure if the increase in salaries is due to raises, bonuses, or new hires.

Total accounting profit pre-tax (it's 10% in BG): 110 (87)

Of course there's the Snapshot Games Inc. based in US, which is the mother firm of the BG entity. They had total of 5694k BGN of trade between those two, and BG entity still should get 490k BGN out of it (which matches the receivables from clients, so maybe epic stuff)

There is also note in the docs that Epic Games Inc (the US entity) was bought by Embracer AB (THQ Nordic people).

 

[PanteraNera]

If there is one thing that Snapshot Games is really consistent in, than it is breaking promises.

This mess is such an overlap of different incompatible levels, concepts and ideas, that I don't even think they know anymore what they promised or should have created to keep them. With DLCs they just added more shit to the pile, that's all.

Still better than nuXCOM.

You know there are different colours of shit, NuXcom is an offensive green pile of shit, PP on the other hand is more of an light brownish diarrhea.
What is better? To me less shitty does not equal good!

 

[ArchAngel]

If there is one thing that Snapshot Games is really consistent in, than it is breaking promises.

This mess is such an overlap of different incompatible levels, concepts and ideas, that I don't even think they know anymore what they promised or should have created to keep them. With DLCs they just added more shit to the pile, that's all.

Still better than nuXCOM.

You know there are different colours of shit, NuXcom is an offensive green pile of shit, PP on the other hand is more of an light brownish diarrhea.
What is better? To me less shitty does not equal good!

When there is only shit on the market and non shitty games you have played until you are bored all you got left is less shit stuff.

 

[PanteraNera]

When there is only shit on the market and non shitty games you have played until you are bored all you got left is less shit stuff.

Sure, I can respect that.
I for myself just stopped gaming.
There is other things you can do with your limited freetime than playing less shitty stuff.

 

[Shog-goth]

Well people should have complained before release. After release it was a lost cause.

I personally did, as well as others, both in this thread and elsewhere. I remember the endless arguments with UnstableVoltage and its equally endless excuses to justify and deny what then promptly happened. Not that I had any particular hopes of being able to change anything, but PP had to be something special and not the "usual" throwaway game. That's why I took it so hard, I usually go beyond these things.

 

[Old Hans]

I've been playing this on the Xbox Series S and it crashes all the time. it crashed during battles, loading into maps, exiting maps. sometimes the buttons just all stop working. Must be the power of the unity engine

 

[ArchAngel]

I've been playing this on the Xbox Series S and it crashes all the time. it crashed during battles, loading into maps, exiting maps. sometimes the buttons just all stop working. Must be the power of the unity engine

I think they said they got a patch incoming that should solve that. Or they just started working on it. It is kind of the same for them.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

You guys talking about the "original vision" are just retroactively being fabulously optimistic. Look at that "desired features" poll early itt, when the game was still early-ish in the development phase. It's all the proof you need that it was always planned as nuxcom-like and all the "gollop will make you his bitch" posturing was just a facade for gullible kickstarter investors. Sure, the overall aesthetics and outward presentation of what pandora is as a threat might've been different (read: better), but it's not like it would salvage the game for anyone expecting old UFO instead of popamoling.

 

[ArchAngel]

You guys talking about the "original vision" are just retroactively being fabulously optimistic. Look at that "desired features" poll early itt, when the game was still early-ish in the development phase. It's all the proof you need that it was always planned as nuxcom-like and all the "gollop will make you his bitch" posturing was just a facade for gullible kickstarter investors. Sure, the overall aesthetics and outward presentation of what pandora is as a threat might've been different (read: better), but it's not like it would salvage the game for anyone expecting old UFO instead of popamoling.

Anyone expecting this to be like old UFO but with new graphics (or Xenonauts but with better graphics) was delusional from the start. It was never marketed as such and you had to have huge rose colored glasses to see it like that.

 

[Shog-goth]

Nobody expected or asked for a carbon copy of X-COM with updated graphics. It is the vision of a "spiritual successor" that has been betrayed, as well as the mature Lovecraftian body horror and post-apocalyptic aesthetic. And that was part of the initial promises behind crowdfunding.

 

[VonMiskov]

I never expected Lovecraftian bodyhorror. Wtf is it anyway?
I expected Lovecraftian horror like Abomination (but with better gameplay) when I pledged on it. As it's basically slips on lawsuit here with its setting.
And I wasn't expecting ufo remake but I was expecting an action point based turned based gameplay and not 2 action Fireaxis tactics-light. First tech demos was kind-a like UFO but overall it's turned out almost like Fireaxis.

Also if it's not original UFO (or total conversion) people on codex seem to hate every iteration of similar games.

 

[ArchAngel]

I never expected Lovecraftian bodyhorror. Wtf is it anyway?
I expected Lovecraftian horror like Abomination (but with better gameplay) when I pledged on it. As it's basically slips on lawsuit here with its setting.
And I wasn't expecting ufo remake but I was expecting an action point based turned based gameplay and not 2 action Fireaxis tactics-light. First tech demos was kind-a like UFO but overall it's turned out almost like Fireaxis.

Also if it's not original UFO (or total conversion) people on codex seem to hate every iteration of similar games.

That is good because PP does not have Firaxis 2 action system. It has TU but all actions are based on 25% of max TU.
Except movement, it goes to less than 25%.