KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[ERYFKRAD]

will this mod add doors to the players bases?

Let it go dude. Jim Morrison is long dead.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

will this mod add doors to the players bases?

??

 

[Jaedar]

First info for next Phoenix Rising major mod called Terror from the Void:

Give me this (assuming they pull it off), and a mod which makes it easier to move mutiple planes at the same time* and I think phoenix point might be an amazing game.


* 2 synedrion planes following eachother is the best way to move your squads around. Accept no substitutes.

 

[ArchAngel]

First info for next Phoenix Rising major mod called Terror from the Void:

Give me this (assuming they pull it off), and a mod which makes it easier to move mutiple planes at the same time* and I think phoenix point might be an amazing game.


* 2 synedrion planes following eachother is the best way to move your squads around. Accept no substitutes.

There is option in game settings that does not unpause automatically when you give orders to aircraft. Try it

 

[Jaedar]

First info for next Phoenix Rising major mod called Terror from the Void:

Give me this (assuming they pull it off), and a mod which makes it easier to move mutiple planes at the same time* and I think phoenix point might be an amazing game.


* 2 synedrion planes following eachother is the best way to move your squads around. Accept no substitutes.

There is option in game settings that does not unpause automatically when you give orders to aircraft. Try it

You still have to give the orders twice though. I'd really like to be able to group them. Maybe I'll figure out how to make a cheat mod that just sets capacity of synedrion aircraft to 8 and only activate it when appropriate.

 

[ArchAngel]

First info for next Phoenix Rising major mod called Terror from the Void:

Give me this (assuming they pull it off), and a mod which makes it easier to move mutiple planes at the same time* and I think phoenix point might be an amazing game.


* 2 synedrion planes following eachother is the best way to move your squads around. Accept no substitutes.

There is option in game settings that does not unpause automatically when you give orders to aircraft. Try it

You still have to give the orders twice though. I'd really like to be able to group them. Maybe I'll figure out how to make a cheat mod that just sets capacity of synedrion aircraft to 8 and only activate it when appropriate.

You can probably increase number of slots of that Aircraft to 8 and to balance it increase its cost appropriately.

 

[Jaedar]

First info for next Phoenix Rising major mod called Terror from the Void:

Give me this (assuming they pull it off), and a mod which makes it easier to move mutiple planes at the same time* and I think phoenix point might be an amazing game.


* 2 synedrion planes following eachother is the best way to move your squads around. Accept no substitutes.

There is option in game settings that does not unpause automatically when you give orders to aircraft. Try it

You still have to give the orders twice though. I'd really like to be able to group them. Maybe I'll figure out how to make a cheat mod that just sets capacity of synedrion aircraft to 8 and only activate it when appropriate.

You can probably increase number of slots of that Aircraft to 8 and to balance it increase its cost appropriately.

I mean, you just steal them, so increasing the cost does nothing for balance. Unless this got patched out.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

First info for next Phoenix Rising major mod called Terror from the Void:

Give me this (assuming they pull it off), and a mod which makes it easier to move mutiple planes at the same time* and I think phoenix point might be an amazing game.


* 2 synedrion planes following eachother is the best way to move your squads around. Accept no substitutes.

There is option in game settings that does not unpause automatically when you give orders to aircraft. Try it

You still have to give the orders twice though. I'd really like to be able to group them. Maybe I'll figure out how to make a cheat mod that just sets capacity of synedrion aircraft to 8 and only activate it when appropriate.

You can probably increase number of slots of that Aircraft to 8 and to balance it increase its cost appropriately.

I mean, you just steal them, so increasing the cost does nothing for balance. Unless this got patched out.

Stealing them inflicts a heavy penalty to your rep, which means a delay in some technologies. You need to farm like 10 nests to get it back.

 

[ArchAngel]

First info for next Phoenix Rising major mod called Terror from the Void:

Give me this (assuming they pull it off), and a mod which makes it easier to move mutiple planes at the same time* and I think phoenix point might be an amazing game.


* 2 synedrion planes following eachother is the best way to move your squads around. Accept no substitutes.

There is option in game settings that does not unpause automatically when you give orders to aircraft. Try it

You still have to give the orders twice though. I'd really like to be able to group them. Maybe I'll figure out how to make a cheat mod that just sets capacity of synedrion aircraft to 8 and only activate it when appropriate.

You can probably increase number of slots of that Aircraft to 8 and to balance it increase its cost appropriately.

I mean, you just steal them, so increasing the cost does nothing for balance. Unless this got patched out.

In the mod stealing aircraft will have a much bigger penalty.

 

[Jaedar]

Stealing them inflicts a heavy penalty to your rep, which means a delay in some technologies. You need to farm like 10 nests to get it back.

I see. Back when I played last you lost like 1-2 nests worth of rep per steal, which is nothing.

 

[Parabalus]

First info for next Phoenix Rising major mod called Terror from the Void:

Give me this (assuming they pull it off), and a mod which makes it easier to move mutiple planes at the same time* and I think phoenix point might be an amazing game.


* 2 synedrion planes following eachother is the best way to move your squads around. Accept no substitutes.

There is option in game settings that does not unpause automatically when you give orders to aircraft. Try it

Will you remove teleporting items between heroes?

That always kinda seemed misplaced, you have to manage aircraft and squads, but can instantly move the best loot between them.

 

[ArchAngel]

First info for next Phoenix Rising major mod called Terror from the Void:

Give me this (assuming they pull it off), and a mod which makes it easier to move mutiple planes at the same time* and I think phoenix point might be an amazing game.


* 2 synedrion planes following eachother is the best way to move your squads around. Accept no substitutes.

There is option in game settings that does not unpause automatically when you give orders to aircraft. Try it

Will you remove teleporting items between heroes?

That always kinda seemed misplaced, you have to manage aircraft and squads, but can instantly move the best loot between them.

That was discussed but it is too complicated for this team.
That would need new UI and nobody yet knows how to do that.

Best thing we could come up with would be to remove access to inventory while soldiers are not at base so you can still teleport items but only between bases but I don't think that is a priority and it is in one of the maybe do at some point in future groups. People that actually do the modding don't care much about it.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I didn't mind, to be honest. Micromanaging gear across bases added more tedium than worth in the xcom games.

 

[Parabalus]

I didn't mind, to be honest. Micromanaging gear across bases added more tedium than worth in the xcom games.

But this is worse, since ideally you micromanage before every single engagement.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, but having to ship equipment everywhere doesn't really add to that. It's just more book keeping.
Checking load outs is indeed part of the XCOM experience though.

 

[ArchAngel]

I didn't mind, to be honest. Micromanaging gear across bases added more tedium than worth in the xcom games.

But this is worse, since ideally you micromanage before every single engagement.

I don't do this. I give everyone their own gear, I only use instant teleportation to give newly built or acquired items or if for example heavy lost his Grenade Launcher in a mission and I have not yet built another one so I would steal it from another heavy for that one mission.
UI does not support managing items between multiple teams, I found my sanity and fun is greater if I just don't do it.

 

[Parabalus]

I didn't mind, to be honest. Micromanaging gear across bases added more tedium than worth in the xcom games.

But this is worse, since ideally you micromanage before every single engagement.

I don't do this. I give everyone their own gear, I only use instant teleportation to give newly built or acquired items or if for example heavy lost his Grenade Launcher in a mission and I have not yet built another one so I would steal it from another heavy for that one mission.
UI does not support managing items between multiple teams, I found my sanity and fun is greater if I just don't do it.

I don't do it either, that's why I'd like it to be removed completely and the game tweaked to account for it.

Yeah, but having to ship equipment everywhere doesn't really add to that. It's just more book keeping.
Checking load outs is indeed part of the XCOM experience though.

Still then having a 'unload all' button like XCOM would be an improvement.

 

[Mary Sue Leigh]

Is this better than Firaxicom? I'm still too deterred by the stink of Epic games store exclusive.

 

[ArchAngel]

Is this better than Firaxicom? I'm still too deterred by the stink of Epic games store exclusive.

Depends on what you didn't like about Xcom 2012.
As for Epic, it is not only on Epic for years now.

 

[Jaedar]

Is this better than Firaxicom? I'm still too deterred by the stink of Epic games store exclusive.

Depends on what you didn't like about Xcom 2012.
As for Epic, it is not only on Epic for years now.

The production values, polish, balancing etc is way worse than firaxcom. And there's certainly a bit of firaxcom dna in here (lots of soldier graphical customisation for example).

But also, the core gameplay is a lot better (targeting individual limbs of the enemies sounds gimmicky, but in practice it doesn't really get old). There's an awful lot of jank though, and each dlc just adds more.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-has-been-great-for-many-indies-says-x-com-and-phoenix-point-creator/

'Epic has been great for many indies', says X-COM and Phoenix Point creator​

There was "hostility" when Phoenix Point was announced as an Epic exclusive, but Julian Gollop doesn't have regrets.

Epic's strategy of timed exclusives helped make it an established source of videogame deals, but not without inspiring quite a bit of vitriol—some from folk with understandable grievances, but a lot of it from Steam stans. This vitriol often gets directed towards the developers who accept these deals, too, as it did when Phoenix Point(opens in new tab) studio Snapshot Games teamed up with the store. This has not, however, soured CEO and X-COM creator Julian Gollop on the strategy.

"When we did our Epic exclusive—this was the very early days of the Epic store promotion—yeah, there was a lot of hostility. And also a lot of conspiracy theories about it. The whole Chinese spyware and all the rest of it. Obviously, that's settled down a bit, and Epic has been great for many indies, in fact. It was another avenue to get funding, of course, which is very, very difficult to get with an indie studio. So overall, it was very positive for Phoenix Point itself. We had extra money that would go into making the game, which we didn't have otherwise. So it really did help the quality of the game itself, helped us get it released sooner rather than later and enabled us to put more content in so it was good."

Steam, of course, gives developers access to a vast audience, so waiting a year before releasing it on the platform still comes with some risks. "It's always better to have the widest access to storefronts as possible," Gollop acknowledges. "If you have the money to get to that finishing line, to get the game in a releasable state. But it's usually not that easy, and developers have to look for other ways to secure the funding they need."

Releasing a game on Steam doesn't mean you actually have access to all those users, either. Discoverability continues to be a big concern for everyone, in particular smaller or independent studios. Valve has attempted to alleviate this with things like the Discovery Queue and Steam Next Fest, but the amount of competition each game faces can sometimes seem insurmountable. With Epic exclusives, however, there's more of a push—a guarantee that Epic will try to put it in front of as many eyes as possible.

A staggered release also comes with some benefits. A second launch allows developers and publishers to drum up excitement all over again, and in the case of Phoenix Point it meant the new players got a better game. Over the year after its Epic launch, Snapshot Games introduced several updates, balance tweaks and other improvements.

"When we released the game initially, after the Kickstarter, we knew that we needed better tutorialisation," says Gollop. "It actually took us about a year—we did a lot of work on the game after the initial release in 2019. When it came to the Steam release in 2020, we had a much nicer, much better tutorial in place which gave a much better introduction to the story, and was well appreciated, I think, by a lot of new players."

There's an argument that developers have been using Epic launches as unofficial betas, polishing things up before the "main" launch on Steam, but it is the nature of modern game development to release post-launch fixes and updates. Few games, at least among those with teams still actively tinkering away, don't see some improvements a year after launch.

As well as the Epic deal, Snapshot Games used Kickstarter and Fig to fund Phoenix Point, which helped the studio go from 20 employees to 60 by 2020. Since then, it's been snatched up by Embracer, and it's now a division of Saber Interactive. With so much competition and a constant stream of acquisitions, I wondered if Gollop thought there was still room for studios to go it alone.

"For a more mid-size indie studio, I'd say it's probably quite difficult. Once you get to a certain size and there's a lot of money flowing out every month, long-term security becomes quite a difficult strategic question. And it's very difficult to do that, especially if you're self-publishing and relying on every next title to be a hit or at least profitable is very difficult. So it's not surprising to see companies selling to bigger entities. The advantage with Embracer, though, is it is largely a collection of still independently-run studios. It's not like a monolithic entity, like the traditional publishing model, where in the bad old days big publishers would buy up studios and try to assimilate them like some kind of Borg-like entity."

What Gollop and the team at Snapshot are working on at Embracer will need to remain a mystery for now, but they did recently release the Phoenix Point: Complete Edition(opens in new tab), which includes Steam Workshop support, putting the future of the game in the hands of its players.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-has-been-great-for-many-indies-says-x-com-and-phoenix-point-creator/

'Epic has been great for many indies', says X-COM and Phoenix Point creator​

There was "hostility" when Phoenix Point was announced as an Epic exclusive, but Julian Gollop doesn't have regrets.

Epic's strategy of timed exclusives helped make it an established source of videogame deals, but not without inspiring quite a bit of vitriol—some from folk with understandable grievances, but a lot of it from Steam stans. This vitriol often gets directed towards the developers who accept these deals, too, as it did when Phoenix Point(opens in new tab) studio Snapshot Games teamed up with the store. This has not, however, soured CEO and X-COM creator Julian Gollop on the strategy.

"When we did our Epic exclusive—this was the very early days of the Epic store promotion—yeah, there was a lot of hostility. And also a lot of conspiracy theories about it. The whole Chinese spyware and all the rest of it. Obviously, that's settled down a bit, and Epic has been great for many indies, in fact. It was another avenue to get funding, of course, which is very, very difficult to get with an indie studio. So overall, it was very positive for Phoenix Point itself. We had extra money that would go into making the game, which we didn't have otherwise. So it really did help the quality of the game itself, helped us get it released sooner rather than later and enabled us to put more content in so it was good."

Steam, of course, gives developers access to a vast audience, so waiting a year before releasing it on the platform still comes with some risks. "It's always better to have the widest access to storefronts as possible," Gollop acknowledges. "If you have the money to get to that finishing line, to get the game in a releasable state. But it's usually not that easy, and developers have to look for other ways to secure the funding they need."

Releasing a game on Steam doesn't mean you actually have access to all those users, either. Discoverability continues to be a big concern for everyone, in particular smaller or independent studios. Valve has attempted to alleviate this with things like the Discovery Queue and Steam Next Fest, but the amount of competition each game faces can sometimes seem insurmountable. With Epic exclusives, however, there's more of a push—a guarantee that Epic will try to put it in front of as many eyes as possible.

A staggered release also comes with some benefits. A second launch allows developers and publishers to drum up excitement all over again, and in the case of Phoenix Point it meant the new players got a better game. Over the year after its Epic launch, Snapshot Games introduced several updates, balance tweaks and other improvements.

"When we released the game initially, after the Kickstarter, we knew that we needed better tutorialisation," says Gollop. "It actually took us about a year—we did a lot of work on the game after the initial release in 2019. When it came to the Steam release in 2020, we had a much nicer, much better tutorial in place which gave a much better introduction to the story, and was well appreciated, I think, by a lot of new players."

There's an argument that developers have been using Epic launches as unofficial betas, polishing things up before the "main" launch on Steam, but it is the nature of modern game development to release post-launch fixes and updates. Few games, at least among those with teams still actively tinkering away, don't see some improvements a year after launch.

As well as the Epic deal, Snapshot Games used Kickstarter and Fig to fund Phoenix Point, which helped the studio go from 20 employees to 60 by 2020. Since then, it's been snatched up by Embracer, and it's now a division of Saber Interactive. With so much competition and a constant stream of acquisitions, I wondered if Gollop thought there was still room for studios to go it alone.

"For a more mid-size indie studio, I'd say it's probably quite difficult. Once you get to a certain size and there's a lot of money flowing out every month, long-term security becomes quite a difficult strategic question. And it's very difficult to do that, especially if you're self-publishing and relying on every next title to be a hit or at least profitable is very difficult. So it's not surprising to see companies selling to bigger entities. The advantage with Embracer, though, is it is largely a collection of still independently-run studios. It's not like a monolithic entity, like the traditional publishing model, where in the bad old days big publishers would buy up studios and try to assimilate them like some kind of Borg-like entity."

What Gollop and the team at Snapshot are working on at Embracer will need to remain a mystery for now, but they did recently release the Phoenix Point: Complete Edition(opens in new tab), which includes Steam Workshop support, putting the future of the game in the hands of its players.

Gollop needs to come off the copium. The game flopped hard.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

don't think it matters how hard it "flopped", iirc from the epic lawsuit leaks they got a ton of money from uncle timmy

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

don't think it matters how hard it "flopped", iirc from the epic lawsuit leaks they got a ton of money from uncle timmy

You're very right. When I finally got round to playing the free copy I was given despite abandoning the crowdfunding, I could tell there were so many parts of the game where the devs just shrugged their shoulders and put in the minimum amount of effort. Because they already made their money. What's the point in putting effort in now? The quality of the end product didn't matter. As long as it ticked a box saying "released" to make good on a deal. There didn't ever need to be a single sale, a single person who actually enjoyed the game. The money was made. Potentially more money than they would've made by selling a complete game made with love that respected it's roots and respected the people looking forward to it. They made their money well done. Mission success. Maybe it'll happen again. A game is announced, bought and paid for to hold a place on malware disguised as a badly designed storefront and doesn't need a single eye on it. It's just a product on a shelf somewhere. You are not the customer. The storefront is. And as long as they are subsidised by 1 game and a government of bugs masquerading badly as humans they can just keep paying companies to make nothing. I know a lot of devs who'd love that deal. That they don't even have to pretend to acknowledge the existence of customers. Mean old customers who just don't appreciate the tireless work it takes for a dev to walk from their desk to the snack bar in their 9-5 flexible hours work from home schedule. They can make their games in a vacuum. Put minimum effort in and then just throw it in a hole somewhere. It's not art. It's not a game. It's not a thing. It's a factory process that leads off a cliff.

Y'know, a front for money laundering.