Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[fantadomat]

I have, but I didn't think the codex was approving it?

I got gang rated for mocking the game..... it is real decline there . All those people should be purged!

Deadfire's combat is a huge improvement over PoE's though.

How so? You just hit space and they die.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Hey, I was just wishing for a facepalm rating, and I see it in my next post. The administration (tm) knows its stuff!

 

[drgames]

Honestly speaking, I liked PoE 1 better than PoE 2. Maybe it was because I still did not play Planescape, but I liked the story of PoE 1, yeah it had its issues but you had companions like your redneck bro Eder or that fanatic moth-guy Durance watching your back with no (b)romance.

 

[BING XI LAO]

I also preferred PoE1 to PoE2.
PoE2 may be slightly better on combat but the writing took a big leap downwards. PoE1 had some great writing in there with Durance, some cool moments like the Council of Stars, and the White March. PoE2 just didn't, the characters and story are much worse. Setting had potential but got dragged into the dumpster by the vague ending and the libertarian anti-slavery pirates.

 

[LizardWizard]

The real success is Owlcat is based in Russia while Obsidian is in California, compare costs of living and Owlcat hit the jackpot.

How much is Putin's cut?

 

[aweigh]

when a sequel is so boring it makes you nostalgic for the original lmao

Spoiler

POSTING IN DEAD GAME THREAD!!!!11

 

[fantadomat]

The real success is Owlcat is based in Russia while Obsidian is in California, compare costs of living and Owlcat hit the jackpot.

How much is Putin's cut?

A pound of flesh for every 20,000 sales!

 

[Tigranes]

As someone who liked both games, I'm playing through POE1 now and it'll be interesting to see how Deadfire compares when played side by side. (I've replayed IE games virtually once a year for a decade, so that's also fresh enough.)

One obvious thing is that POE1 is far more cohesive generally, and Deadfire is an all-over-the-place theme park. I think for Codexers, POE1 also retains enough D&D-ish elements while Deadfire more or less abandons them. I like limited camping supplies and I like the per-enc/per-rest mix; neither is perfect, but they are a valid design alternative to the IE style without being massively better or worse. Deadfire just decides it's going to run away from all that.

 

[Parabalus]

Deadfire just decides it's going to run away from all that.

And steps on a mine halfway through, so we got this invalid dumpsterfire.

 

[Safav Hamon]

I think for Codexers, POE1 also retains enough D&D-ish elements while Deadfire more or less abandons them. I like limited camping supplies and I like the per-enc/per-rest mix; neither is perfect, but they are a valid design alternative to the IE style without being massively better or worse. Deadfire just decides it's going to run away from all that.

That's why Deadfire is a superior game. It differentiates itself enough to stand on its own.

POE1 sucked because it was trying to be psuedo-D&D, which only alienated D&D players.

 

[Tigranes]

I don't really give a shit if it's pseudo-D&D or if it's standing on its own. All that matters is, are the mechanics good, do they facilitate meaningful tactical choices? Deadfire's elimination of attrition mechanics is to its own detriment.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

As someone who liked both games, I'm playing through POE1 now and it'll be interesting to see how Deadfire compares when played side by side. (I've replayed IE games virtually once a year for a decade, so that's also fresh enough.)

One obvious thing is that POE1 is far more cohesive generally, and Deadfire is an all-over-the-place theme park. I think for Codexers, POE1 also retains enough D&D-ish elements while Deadfire more or less abandons them. I like limited camping supplies and I like the per-enc/per-rest mix; neither is perfect, but they are a valid design alternative to the IE style without being massively better or worse. Deadfire just decides it's going to run away from all that.

Right after beating Deadfire I've tried replaying the first game and found it completely insufferable. While some of the combat systems are better in PoE1, Deadfire is such an enormous improvement in things that are critical to replay value, it makes even attempting to replay the first game a pointless proposition.

Just couple hours in I was literally cringing IRL while looting all the fucking uncreative, pointless, boring items, while Deadfire has arguably the best itemization in the genre. Character developoment, same shit. I can make 50 Deadfire runs without repeating any of the class combinations, while after my two PoE1 runs I have already seen everything that is to see. And then of course the first game is completely linear while in Deadfire I'm free to do whatever the hell I want. And those are 3 things that make replaying any RPG worth bothering with.

 

[Safav Hamon]

I don't really give a shit if it's pseudo-D&D or if it's standing on its own. All that matters is, are the mechanics good, do they facilitate meaningful tactical choices? Deadfire's elimination of attrition mechanics is to its own detriment.

I disagree. Deadfire is not a dungeon crawler like the first game. It's almost all setpiece encounters with very few trash mobs. Attrition mechanics do not work well with its design.

Seeker, Slayer, Survivor is the perfect representation of what I think Pillars 3 combat should be. Every fight should be a boss fight that requires using all your abilities and items to succeed.

 

[Tigranes]

IHaveHugeNick Given what havoc open-world wreaks on every effort to design good systems and pacing, I don't really find that it does wonders for Deadfire. Or something like TW3. A more controlled nonlinearity almost always improves the final product. POE1 is a bit more linear than it needs to be, but it's not exactly on complete railroads.

I do agree that itemisation and multiclassing are two massive, massive improvements. I enjoy a certain scarcity in terms of resources available to a party, though, because that often makes for more meaningful choices (whereas if your party could do everything, then it's meaningless). I'll see how I experience the big jump when I move to Deadfire.

Safav Hamon That is partially true, but as v1.0 POTD showed, it's very very hard to have open world, get rid of all attrition, and still maintain appropriate challenge. I don't think we'll ever get a game where even the hardest difficulty makes every battle like a boss fight for a veteran Codexer, sadly.

 

[Drudkh]

I don't get how some of you people actually like the combat more in PoE 2. The first game required perfect positioning and buffs at the beginning of each battle. In PoE 2, even in the hardest difficulties you can just run your mob around spamming your Dragon Age skills as long as you keep up with the required leveling, equipment, and proper stock of items.

I think probably the best thing PoE has going for it over the DoS games and Kingmaker is that the game moves at a swift pace and doesn't waste the players time as much with inane shit.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Safav Hamon That is partially true, but as v1.0 POTD showed, it's very very hard to have open world, get rid of all attrition, and still maintain appropriate challenge. I don't think we'll ever get a game where even the hardest difficulty makes every battle like a boss fight for a veteran Codexer, sadly.

Have you played Seeker, Slayer, Survivor yet? It's tough at max level and there's not a single trash mob out of 40+ fights.

 

[Safav Hamon]

The trick to consistent difficulty in an open world RPG is having a low level cap and slow experience gain.

 

[111111111]

Honestly due to the sheer scarcity of this genre, I am more than willing to overlook PoE's 1 and 2 flaws and enjoy the game.

These days I don't even know if the common people even know what an RPG actually is anymore.

If you look on the steam RPG section you can find fucking visual novels listed on the new and trending list of rpgs.

 

[Tigranes]

Safav Hamon That is partially true, but as v1.0 POTD showed, it's very very hard to have open world, get rid of all attrition, and still maintain appropriate challenge. I don't think we'll ever get a game where even the hardest difficulty makes every battle like a boss fight for a veteran Codexer, sadly.

Have you played Seeker, Slayer, Survivor yet? It's tough at max level and there's not a single trash mob out of 40+ fights.

No, and I'm looking forward to it. Age of Decadence is a good example of this - and then there are some places where attrition is naturally enforced on you and becomes a factor.

I don't get how some of you people actually like the combat more in PoE 2. The first game required perfect positioning and buffs at the beginning of each battle. In PoE 2, even in the hardest difficulties you can just run your mob around spamming your Dragon Age skills as long as you keep up with the required leveling, equipment, and proper stock of items.

I think probably the best thing PoE has going for it over the DoS games and Kingmaker is that the game moves at a swift pace and doesn't waste the players time as much with inane shit.

POTD got a lot better after early patches, so I wouldn't say that's quite so true anymore. It all depends on how munchkin your party is and how much you're vacuuming up XP and items all over the world before tackling encounters.

Obviously the White March is still where it's at, but I hear the DLCs have done a better job in Deadfire too.

 

[AwesomeButton]

as v1.0 POTD showed

You mean the bugged release version which didn't scale enemy numbers? I hope you get to replaying Deadfire sooner. IMO it's the best PoE-style combat of all the games/expansions/game versions to date.

And resource management can and should be brought back, by "mods will fix it".

 

[Grunker]

dumpsterfire.

You REALLY like that word huh

 

[Grunker]

as v1.0 POTD showed

You mean the bugged release version which didn't scale enemy numbers? I hope you get to replaying Deadfire sooner. IMO it's the best PoE-style combat of all the games/expansions/game versions to date.

Doesn’t hold a candle to White March IMO

 

[Sacred82]

dumpsterfire.

You REALLY like that word huh

I like Dadfire more

 

[AwesomeButton]

as v1.0 POTD showed

You mean the bugged release version which didn't scale enemy numbers? I hope you get to replaying Deadfire sooner. IMO it's the best PoE-style combat of all the games/expansions/game versions to date.

Doesn’t hold a candle to White March IMO

I'm far from being dismissive of TWM, quite the oppposite (I wrote in praise of TWM1 while people were still ridiculing the base game), but the large mobs, like for example the lagufaeth battle, and the combat speed are both there, and put it in second place to Deadfire in my book.

Those are really minor gripes though, as journos like to say.

If we are comparing the setting, of course I would take an IWD to Pirates of Carribean Now With Worse Writing any day.

 

[Grunker]

I love the Lagufaeth fights in White March. They serve as examples of how "trash" fights are often misunderstood and really show the strength of the individual mob design. That, the large Vithrack battle and the Xaurip mines themselves are the gold standard for PoE encounter design IMO.

Also as far as the setting goes, I think Deadfire's setting and worldbuilding are fantastic, even if the writing isn't that great. The concept of the Principi is really inventive and cool and the internal faction struggles are an interesting take on newschool/oldschool.

White March wins because of the better story, but the worldbuilding of Deadfire is on par, I'd say.