Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[pomenitul]

I'm still holding out hope that they'll add Vancian casting as a divine challenge. And that they'll get the engine to play nice with Nvidia cards – the stuttering is as off-putting as ever, five months after release.

 

[Haplo]

I've found that that doesn't matter in practice. The last RPGs which have imposed resting limitations (KotC and Swordflight, maybe Expeditions too) were incredibly successful at that and I didn't feel the need to save constantly and didn't think it's a problem.

What about Pathfinder: Kingmaker? Seems to be pretty solid in that area.

 

[Grunker]

The old Demon's Age had an interesting take on it. Resting on the overland map costs resources, and you can rest in dungeons - which would either reset (option a) or simply cannot be returned to once left (option b). The latter would hurt the simulationists but it sounds like a fun gameplay challenge having to prepare fully for the whole dungeon. And if you made one dungeon particularly long you could always add the option to rest once or even twice, as long as you have the reset/no return rule.

 

[Parabalus]

Reflections on Obsidian's future aside, how would you "actually impose rest limits for real"?

1) Local rest limiting - From the world map (free rest), you enter an "area" with strictly rationed and designed resting, in essence it's part of the tactical challenge of an encounter/dungeon

2) Global resting limit - resting costs resources and is finite (time limit). Bugfinder apparently seems to do this decently, Eothas challenge is a hamfisted way of doing it


The IE games didn't have 1) or 2), outside of the rare ambush or resting disallowed places - resting is a meme in those games.

Deadfire did 1) half-assedly and doesn't do 2) at all without the challenge, with the latter being especially egregious because of the plot.

Spoiler

They should have removed all per rest stuff and resting instead of this assinine hybridization, or not touched anything from the broken IE system

No resting or backtracking in dungeons for one. Time limits on certain quests. That would've required bigger dungeons, though, but they should've made the game differently in the first place.

All I read is "teach the player to be paranoid about saving his game".

You can't save through campaign/global limits.

Core issue is doing any of this allows the player to 'fail', which is a big no-no apparently.

 

[AwesomeButton]

You can't save through campaign/global limits.

I was thinking of a situation where the player saves before leaving a safe area for a dungeon, where his resting will become limited.

 

[FreeKaner]

Saving is cancelled, because people abuse it. From now on there are only checkpoints.

 

[Parabalus]

You can't save through campaign/global limits.

I was thinking of a situation where the player saves before leaving a safe area for a dungeon, where his resting will become limited.

That's how PoE1 wanted to do it, but people whined about getting stuck/reloading, so JES allowed backtracking, then they whined about always running back to the inn.

Amusingly D:OS has no resting and abuseable encounters.

 

[AwesomeButton]

That's how PoE1 wanted to do it, but people whined about getting stuck/reloading, so JES allowed backtracking, then they whined about always running back to the inn.

Amusingly D:OS has no resting and abuseable encounters.

Ok, so "Josh, your game sucks because of all the possible ways it can be played, I am able to elect to play it in an assheaded manner!"
That's my point this whole time - this is a made up problem, and these people should be ignored from the get go. If they can't play an RPG right, that's a problem with them not with the RPG.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

It's +5 PL, sometimes it's worth it, particularly on AoE CC. It's added to base damage and can get ridiculous fast, wizards are the worst offenders (of course).

Whoever came up with self-casting empower should be fired though, horrible idea.

I have been watching a guy's LP where he uses empowered CC spells in nearly every encounter. He just rests them back up when he runs out

What a glorious victory for Josh's "no degenerates allowed" design.

I mean, it's either that or we would be hoarding empowers just like we hoard potions and consumables.

 

[Lacrymas]

We wouldn't hoard consumables if the game required us to use them or were somehow convenient. I use potions of Infuse with Vital Essence in PoE1 when my health is low but I have a lot of spells left to cast. I also used Deleterious Alacrity of Motion pots to one-shot the 3 broodmothers encounter in WM. I rarely use any other pots, though, sometimes I use Power, but eehhh I frequently forget they exist because they aren't needed. When they aren't needed, they become overpowered when used, though, like with the broodmothers example. Bulwark Against the Elements was also very useful on Maerwald, you can literally ignore the elementals he summons and go ham on him.

 

[Parabalus]

Can't recall a recent RPG where you didn't end up with a hoard of money or consumables, AoD and UR maybeeee being the exceptions.

That's how PoE1 wanted to do it, but people whined about getting stuck/reloading, so JES allowed backtracking, then they whined about always running back to the inn.

Amusingly D:OS has no resting and abuseable encounters.

That's my point this whole time - this is a made up problem, and these people should be ignored from the get go. If they can't play an RPG right, that's a problem with them not with the RPG.

These people are a majority of consumers, even in a genre as monocled as old-school RPGs, he tried to fix the IE resting issue for a reason.

 

[AwesomeButton]

These people are a majority of consumers, even in a genre as monocled as old-school RPGs, he tried to fix the IE resting issue for a reason.

Butwhatabout Kingmaker? It seems to be sellig quite well despite all.

Obsidian were overly cautious, and at the same time also bravely experimenting, but quite often were doing both things in the wrong places.

I say were, because I'm afraid there won't be more coming from them any time soon, in terms of isometric rtwp RPGs at least.

 

[Parabalus]

These people are a majority of consumers, even in a genre as monocled as old-school RPGs, he tried to fix the IE resting issue for a reason.

Butwhatabout Kingmaker? It seems to be sellig quite well despite all.

Whatabout D:OS? It seems to be selling quite well despite all.

Spoiler

Bugmaker seems like a Oldsidian game, before the fear of bankrupty castrated them. I played a bit and enjoyed it a lot, but waiting for them to patch in the stealth hotkey.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Kingmaker is selling more than we might have expected, but it's hardly some massive success. It might end up outselling Deadfire but that ain't a high bar to reach.

 

[fantadomat]

Kingmaker is selling more than we might have expected, but it's hardly some massive success. It might end up outselling Deadfire but that ain't a high bar to reach.

It is pretty big success when you add in that is a Russian studio and it is their first game of a not very popular PnP. I wouldn't be surprised if they had made a lot more actual money than poe1&2 combined. Obsidian have a lot more expenses. It is bigger financial success than deadfire for certainty.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The real takeaway is that stellar sales of first PoE appear to be a fluke and there's a market ceiling for isometric RTwP, capped at maybe 300k-400k units.

 

[fantadomat]

The real takeaway is that stellar sales of first PoE appear to be a fluke and there's a market ceiling for isometric RTwP, capped at maybe 300k-400k units.

Who the fuck is arguing against this? That is pretty obvious,as much as the fact that Kingmakers was aimed at this niche. The problem is that your co-owners at obsidian are retarded and though RPG is a mainstream genre. The rus knew what their market is and aimed for it,and their game far more financially successful than any PoE game.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I wouldn't be surprised if they had made a lot more actual money than poe1&2 combined.

 

[Sailor Woedica]

i'm starting to think a lot of people on this forum don't actually like Obsidian

 

[AwesomeButton]

Whatabout D:OS? It seems to be selling quite well despite all.

I know you're trolling but comparing Kingmaker as an RPG with D:OS2 as an RPG is really :creative:

Kingmaker is selling more than we might have expected, but it's hardly some massive success. It might end up outselling Deadfire but that ain't a high bar to reach.

If it outsells PoE, which I think it has a shot at doing, I'll laugh my ass off.

The real takeaway is that stellar sales of first PoE appear to be a fluke and there's a market ceiling for isometric RTwP, capped at maybe 300k-400k units.

That is true. There is a ceiling. But the ceiling is only there when your RPGs approach the audience with tail between the legs and carry nothing of what made the old games classics - not in the combat gameplay, not in the story and writing, not in the atmosphere of the setting.

Which brings me to a question I raised some time ago - remember what's the difference between "bland generic fantasy setting" and "traditional, classic fantasy setting"? Nothing but the execution.

 

[fantadomat]

i'm starting to think a lot of people on this forum don't actually like Obsidian

A lot of people here liked Obsidian. IHaveHugeNick for example was even an co-owner. Sadly,later on he was deowned and send packing. FreeKaner found out that they are racist and crypto fascists,after that he stopped loving them. Everyone here has a sad story about how he stopped loving obsidian.

 

[FreeKaner]

It's indeed a sad story to go from playing New Vegas with wonder, which is one of my favourite games all time, into finding out that the people I expected to create great games were just bunch of Germanic supremacist Nazi sympathisers that started to try to indoctrinate people in Atlanto-Hyperborean racialist ideology as soon as they got their own IP.

Truly this thread is a house of tragedy.

 

[Mazisky]

About PoE and PoE1 fan\player base, people seems to forget that there are many people who bought\played\liked it, outside this forum. They probably simply forget there are many people outside this forum.

 

[fantadomat]

About PoE and PoE1 fan\player base, people seems to forget that there are many people who bought\played\liked it, outside this forum. They probably simply forget there are many people outside this forum.

And none of them bought the second one...

 

[Mazisky]

We will see about sales after one year from now. Too early to judge.