Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[Grunker]

Deadfire systems are the most apparent proof of streamlining not necessarily being balance. The standardised weapon speeds and recovery times, when combined with modals actually results in completely uneven power distribution because such streamlining only shifts the parameter of balance to next variable. It also creates situations where the streamlining is actively undermining the balance, for example all summons have 6 seconds cast time but the quality of the summons and when you acquire them has to vary.

In an environment of such absolute streamlining every value is shifted to next variable as the streamlining creates new constants. Ironically, such action emphasises the RNG factor. When the correct usage of RNG is creating an environment to react to with variables and constants.

It seems we are forgetting here that Sawyer never had an explicit goal of balance in the sense of every system asset being more or less equal - that's a meme spinned by the grognard-crowd. His stated objective was to make sure every system asset was useful for completing the game - that there were no "nothing"-assets such as Tougness in D&D 3.0. That no matter how you went about your build, what you did was functional to a useful degree.

I still think he failed in some cases with the modals, since a few are actively worse in almost all cases than just keeping them switched off, it's just that it's not useful to analyse Pillars within the misplaced framwork of mythical "perfect balance."

 

[Parabalus]

Deadfire systems are the most apparent proof of streamlining not necessarily being balance. The standardised weapon speeds and recovery times, when combined with modals actually results in completely uneven power distribution because such streamlining only shifts the parameter of balance to next variable. It also creates situations where the streamlining is actively undermining the balance, for example all summons have 6 seconds cast time but the quality of the summons and when you acquire them has to vary.

In an environment of such absolute streamlining every value is shifted to next variable as the streamlining creates new constants. Ironically, such action emphasises the RNG factor. When the correct usage of RNG is creating an environment to react to with variables and constants.

I still think he failed in some cases with the modals, since a few are actively worse in almost all cases than just keeping them switched off, it's just that it's not useful to analyse Pillars within the misplaced framwork of mythical "perfect balance."

Which modals do you consider garbage?

Think I used most of them, maybe skipped blast because Kalakoth's is so easily accessible.

 

[Grunker]

So you're not gonna believe this, but after beating all other encounters save some non-megabosses in the game, I finally beat the BoW dragon :D

Spoiler

Someone at Obsidian really, REALLY doesn't want me to finish that fight lol.

Deadfire systems are the most apparent proof of streamlining not necessarily being balance. The standardised weapon speeds and recovery times, when combined with modals actually results in completely uneven power distribution because such streamlining only shifts the parameter of balance to next variable. It also creates situations where the streamlining is actively undermining the balance, for example all summons have 6 seconds cast time but the quality of the summons and when you acquire them has to vary.

In an environment of such absolute streamlining every value is shifted to next variable as the streamlining creates new constants. Ironically, such action emphasises the RNG factor. When the correct usage of RNG is creating an environment to react to with variables and constants.

I still think he failed in some cases with the modals, since a few are actively worse in almost all cases than just keeping them switched off, it's just that it's not useful to analyse Pillars within the misplaced framwork of mythical "perfect balance."

Which modals do you consider garbage?

Think I used most of them, maybe skipped blast because Kalakoth's is so easily accessible.

I think the AoE-ones are pretty shit.

 

[Parabalus]

So you're not gonna believe this, but after beating all other non-megabosses in the game, I finally beat the dragon :D

Spoiler

Someone at Obsidian really, REALLY doesn't want me to finish that fight lol.

Deadfire systems are the most apparent proof of streamlining not necessarily being balance. The standardised weapon speeds and recovery times, when combined with modals actually results in completely uneven power distribution because such streamlining only shifts the parameter of balance to next variable. It also creates situations where the streamlining is actively undermining the balance, for example all summons have 6 seconds cast time but the quality of the summons and when you acquire them has to vary.

In an environment of such absolute streamlining every value is shifted to next variable as the streamlining creates new constants. Ironically, such action emphasises the RNG factor. When the correct usage of RNG is creating an environment to react to with variables and constants.

I still think he failed in some cases with the modals, since a few are actively worse in almost all cases than just keeping them switched off, it's just that it's not useful to analyse Pillars within the misplaced framwork of mythical "perfect balance."

Which modals do you consider garbage?

Think I used most of them, maybe skipped blast because Kalakoth's is so easily accessible.

I think the AoE-ones are pretty shit.

The only AoE ones are rod (blast) and blunderbuss (powder burns), the latter is great and is featured in many builds, both because of AoE and the self distract (flank)

 

[Grunker]

The only AoE ones are rod (blast) and blunderbuss (powder burns), the latter is great and is featured in many builds, both because of AoE and the self distract (flank)

All of the fights that challenged me in any way put pressure on my ability to do single target damage and control-manage mobs. I can't recall one where I needed more AoE-clear. Perhaps it's a result of my party comp though, I'm really not an expert after one playthrough on PotD.

In general though I guess it's hard to say since the game is way, WAAAAAY the fuck easier than White March. Again besides the BoW dragon I didn't reload more than once or twice once I got past 10th level (keep in mind I'm still missing some megabosses + Forgotten Sanctum).

 

[Grunker]

In general, switching Serafen from Blunderbusses to Pistols has boosted his party value by like 25%.

 

[Terra]

Been pushing through this during my Xmas holidays. Still have another 2 weeks till I'm back at work and I really want to start & finish (or at least make a decent dent in) Pathfinder so I'm considering beelining through the rest of the PoE2 critical path content and returning to play the DLC offerings later. I've enjoyed it well enough but from everything I've heard Pathfinder's the superior offering and PoE2 is overstaying its welcome if I'm honest. It is better than the first game in many regards but there are so many superfluous elements that are bloating my playtime - innumerable "bounties", for what purpose? You go to the location, let the auto battle resolve the encounter with relative ease and carry on. Similarly with the ship combat minigame, I see no reason to engage with it given that boarding the enemy ship gets the job done a lot faster with the tiny inconvenience of some ship damage.

It's a shame, there are parts I'm enjoying; the bits with Berath & the gods, I've just met the creature in the Watershapers guild and some of the plot developments and faction conflicts are definitely keeping me playing, but it's just packed with so much filler - annoyingly many stores are packed full of cool sounding items that necessitate amassing vast quantities of copper through aforementioned busywork.

Anyway, I'm up to Magran's Teeth with the main plot; how much critical path stuff is left after that, I've pushed along the Principi, Rauatai & Huana faction content as far along as I'm currently able to without commiting if it matters.

 

[Prime Junta]

Group debuff, single-target damage, is the way to go

 

[Grunker]

Beat the Beast of Winter in my first try, insanely easy compared to the dragon. Isn't that sort of a deviation from the Sawyer-logic of "avoidable encounter = very hard, crit path encounter = very easy"?

Group debuff, single-target damage, is the way to go

Exactly my conclusion.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Beat the Beast of Winter in my first try, insanely easy compared to the dragon. Isn't that sort of a deviation from the Sawyer-logic of "avoidable encounter = very hard, crit path encounter = very easy"?

The dragon fight was never hard to begin with. I find it hilarious that you spent over 10 hours getting your ass kicked.

Anyway, I'm up to Magran's Teeth with the main plot; how much critical path stuff is left after that, I've pushed along the Principi, Rauatai & Huana faction content as far along as I'm currently able to without commiting if it matters.

Only the final quest.

 

[FreeKaner]

Do DLCs count as critical path for the sake of level scaling?

This is important.

 

[FreeKaner]

Quillon was it you that got this in the game?

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Karabörü

 

[Grunker]

Holy balls Chanter Animated Weapons are the sickness

 

[Quillon]

Quillon was it you that got this in the game?

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Karabörü

Nope. First time I see it.

I wouldn't have chosen an oversized knife with that name if I'd done such a thing

 

[FreeKaner]

Nope. First time I see it.

I wouldn't have chosen an oversized knife with that name if I'd done such a thing

Why is it even a two-handed sword I wonder, what was the creator of this item was thinking

 

[FreeKaner]

It seems we are forgetting here that Sawyer never had an explicit goal of balance in the sense of every system asset being more or less equal - that's a meme spinned by the grognard-crowd. His stated objective was to make sure every system asset was useful for completing the game - that there were no "nothing"-assets such as Tougness in D&D 3.0. That no matter how you went about your build, what you did was functional to a useful degree.

I still think he failed in some cases with the modals, since a few are actively worse in almost all cases than just keeping them switched off, it's just that it's not useful to analyse Pillars within the misplaced framwork of mythical "perfect balance."

It's not about perfect balance or not. It's simply about streamlining making the game boring, samey and uninteresting. Whether for balance or making everything viable streamlining is worst way to do it. It's most obvious with weapons.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Streamlined how?

They added multiclassing, archetypes, more skills, new abilities for every class, weapon modals, upgradeable weapons, expanded crafting system, expanded stealth system, new consumables like drugs & grenades, ect.

 

[Safav Hamon]

One thing I don't get is why certain backgrounds are locked by culture.

Aristocrat, artists, clergymen, colonists, dissidents, explorers, mercenaries, mystics, philosophers, bandits, scholars, and scientists can exist in any culture.

 

[FreeKaner]

Streamlined weapon attack and recovery speeds, for example. It makes flail and dagger play as essentially the same weapon without the modals and the flail modal is useless. Many spells which only have inspiration element being so similar to be hard to distinguish. For example Pyschovampiric shield in PoE1 was an unique and central part of melee ciphers but in second game it is simply a resolve inspiration that doesn't stack with other inspirations and overall is useless, it also drains all the flavour from the game aside from gameplay concerns. Another example is savage defiance is same thing as nature's balm, there are many more of these like disciplined barrage and eldritch aim being same thing etc.

There are some abilities and spells that differ, of course, it isn't all bleak but still there simply isn't enough unique interactions, constants and variables. Only wizard seems to be exempt from this with many unique interactions.

 

[Rivmusique]

Beat the Beast of Winter in my first try, insanely easy compared to the dragon. Isn't that sort of a deviation from the Sawyer-logic of "avoidable encounter = very hard, crit path encounter = very easy"?

Group debuff, single-target damage, is the way to go

Exactly my conclusion.

They're both avoidable, I think.

Spoiler

my character killed the dragon by convincing it to try to fight the BoW, got a cutscene of it getting mulched when I met The Beast later on. Fought the Beast though.

Sounds like I missed out with that dragon though, will pick aim to pick a fight in another playthrough some time. I think I skipped all the dragons, actually. Except The Guardian, which was apparently a bug as it seems it wasn't meant to appear with my ending state and hasn't shown up post-BoW installation.

flail modal is useless

Those " - (defence) on hit, -% damage" modals seemed the best to me. No recovery hit and lowering defences to help bring spells in to play is great.

 

[Safav Hamon]

I heard The Guardian is avoidable if your character is an Island Aumuana from the Deadfire Archipelago and sided with the Huana. Otherwise it's a mandatory fight.

 

[Rivmusique]

Apparently:

Spoiler

Guardian isn't meant to show up on land at all under certain conditions: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/1...e-are-now-arguing-endgame-spoilers/?hl=ukaizo

 

[Grunker]

Anyone else had an issue with

Spoiler

Talking with Tayn about the annals of llengrath? I don't get the option to even though I have a quest to do it.

Sounds like I missed out with that dragon though

You missed out on one of the worst set piece fights of both games. You got single-target damage or a way to deal with Llengrath's Safeguard? It's a cakewalk, literally just a bag of HP. You don't? It's a slog. There's nothing else to it, as the dragon doesn't deal that much damage itself.

 

[Safav Hamon]

No, the fight is a cakewalk as long as you can penetrate her armor or recruited at least one of the allies. You're just a shit player.

 

[Grunker]

No, the fight is a cakewalk

Wait, I thought it was really well-designed? A really well-designed cakewalk..?