Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[AwesomeButton]

Thaos' primary motivation is that he believes Gods are good and necessary, that they judge motivations and bring order to chaos. Him trying to also hide the fact that they are artificial is only incidental to this.

Er... do you realize how this makes absolutely no sense, or should I explain?

 

[AwesomeButton]

Thaos wasn't scared of people saying it, he was afraid of people finding out the truth.

how would this "finding out the truth" be carried out? By conducting mass tours of Engwithan tombs, tour guides explaining the conspiracy and what the machines do to the toursits? Obviously if this secret came out, there would be no way to confirm it, and the population at large would have to learn about it second-hand. And the tricky part - would have to believe it.

 

[Butter]

Seems like a deeper problem when people who have completed the game can't even agree on what the villain's motivation was.

 

[AwesomeButton]

E: your 123 scenario is exactly what happened to Iovara in the first game

Well then, given Iovara's experience, Thaos doesn't need to worry about anything the player character would do with this information it seems. :D

 

[2house2fly]

People believe all kinds of stuff from finding out about it second hand, from every religion that has ever existed to recent stuff like Qanon

 

[Tenebris]

I am really enjoying the steel garrote so far, what a beautiful concept. Both the steel garrote and priest of woedica has made the PoE1 run where you follow through with Thaos' plan more meaningful.

Too bad there's no dialogue from Woedica reflecting you empowering her. The only reactivity I saw was the talking sword calling me "Woedica's favored."

 

[2house2fly]

Seems like a deeper problem when people who have completed the game can't even agree on what the villain's motivation was.

the villain reveals his motivations implictly through his dialogue and actions rather than simply expositing them, in another example of the writer's foolish attempt to write a more high-brow adventure. In yet another, the villain himself isn't necessarily honest with himself

 

[Maculo]

Personally, I viewed Thaos' role as not only guarding the truth, but to keep the gods on track via empowering Woedica. Woedica seemed like a big reset button, whereas Galawain/Magran/Abydon in the Court of Stars seemed resigned to the fact that people would find out. Eothas then fucked things up by taking an avatar and "dying." You, the player, could further fuck things up by depriving Woedica of the souls.

To me, the joke of PoE's "gods" was not that they were man-made, but rather that the gods were experiencing their own existential crisis and Thaos had to intervene to save his creations time and time again. Even if the PC did not come along, Eothas would have likely destroyed the soul engine anyways. The system was doomed from the start.

Seems like a deeper problem when people who have completed the game can't even agree on what the villain's motivation was.

I think that is in part due to what dialogue options were available. For example, you could take dialogue options that focused on either stopping Woedica, curing your Watcher ailments, or seeking revenge against Thaos for a past life. You were not really forced into any one hook. I thought it was a nice CYOA element, but it created a mess though.

I took the dialogue options that focused on the Inquisitor and redemption, and I was pleased with the dialogue options. Some of the dialogue options were pretty flat otherwise.

 

[Quillon]

Second, educated people in this "low-key fantasy"(!) world behaving as if revealing this conspiracy would bring about a societal crisis, a breakdown of institutions or even major outrage, rings false in every way imaginable:

An unprejudiced recipient of this story expects that characters would behave rational within the reality of this fantasy world, and expecting aforementioned crisis to happen as a result of simply airing the message "the gods are fake" would be a highly irrational expectation for a character such as Thaos to have, let alone for others who are in on the big secret.

I find it really mind-boggling that anyone with a good general knowledge of history wouldn't laugh his ass off at such a proposition for a main plot hook. Let's see, what is realistically expected to happen if someone starts shouting at the top of his lungs that the gods aren't real, in an actual low-key fantasy setting:
1. People will make fun of him in taverns and on the streets
2. Should he gain enough traction, churches will persecute him for heresy and he will be considered a danger to all for his speeches "angering the gods"
3. In the best-case scenario, from the perspective of this fighter for truth, he would become the leader of a heretical cult.

So, no societal breakdown, no crisis, no angry mobs in front of temples.

Thaos lived a..very long time, playing a very long game He prolly doesn't think anything would happen overnight unlike what you think of him. If there'd be no Thaos/opposition and "truth-tellers" should take over Leaden Key with lots of cells around Eora or invent their own cult, sooner or later they'd at least cause chaos :D f.i. its said that Thaos/Leaden Key is the reason there is no printing press in Eora, now that Thaos' gone & printing press utilized(soon(tm)) would speed things up. This is 1600-1700 equivalent fantasy setting after all, with tech progression.

 

[Lacrymas]

My main problem with the whole "creating the gods" thing is the reasoning behind their creation. How are the gods giving meaning to existence that wasn't there before them? Christianity in today's developed countries isn't what it was in the medieval ages, very few people believe with a profound sincerity, because it was always, for the average person, a religion for desperate and destitute people, even after Saint Paul's reformations. Medieval life was (mostly) one of strife and misery, believing that it's meaningful because you'll be happy in the next life (Heaven) is pretty much the only thing you can do. In PoE, however, we've been given no indication that this is what is happening (Neketaka and Defiance Bay are prosperous cities) and nobody has said anything about the Engwithans being that way either. They are shown as a scientifically advanced civilization (something that was stifled by the widespread Stoic philosophy, superstition/astrology, neoplatonism and later Christianity, among other things, irl), which makes life better for everyone and is one reason for the enjoyment of living. Soooo, yeah, I don't get it. It has always smelled of low education and not much more.

 

[pomenitul]

There's a long reactionary tradition, especially prevalent in the 19th century, according to which scientific advancement is deleterious to (spiritual) happiness. Whether that's true irl or not is beside the point – in a fictional setting, you can riff on this classic theme at your leisure. That being said, if you side with Director Castol and push for further animantic research, the ending slide does suggest that science is enough to sublate the death of the ('false') gods and bring about a less miserable world. At least for a time – once you hit a state of widespread well-being, it becomes exponentially harder to attain the (hypothetical) higher rungs of happiness. Thus arises the desire for the exact opposite of what you have simply because it is different, which is consistent with the death drive. The French have a much higher standard of living than the Chinese but less hope of improving their lives by leaps and bounds in the near future, so they are likelier to complain. Tragically, the good never suffices – we always want better.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Presumably the Engwithan society was doomed to sink ever further into postmodern decadence and those who created the new Gods were redpilled neo-pagans

 

[pomenitul]

His last few albums sucked. Neo-paganism can do better.

 

[2house2fly]

My main problem with the whole "creating the gods" thing is the reasoning behind their creation. How are the gods giving meaning to existence that wasn't there before them? Christianity in today's developed countries isn't what it was in the medieval ages, very few people believe with a profound sincerity, because it was always, for the average person, a religion for desperate and destitute people, even after Saint Paul's reformations. Medieval life was (mostly) one of strife and misery, believing that it's meaningful because you'll be happy in the next life (Heaven) is pretty much the only thing you can do. In PoE, however, we've been given no indication that this is what is happening (Neketaka and Defiance Bay are prosperous cities) and nobody has said anything about the Engwithans being that way either. They are shown as a scientifically advanced civilization (something that was stifled by the widespread Stoic philosophy, superstition/astrology, neoplatonism and later Christianity, among other things, irl), which makes life better for everyone and is one reason for the enjoyment of living. Soooo, yeah, I don't get it. It has always smelled of low education and not much more.

How people would realistically act isn't necessarily as relevant as how the people who implemented the plan believed people would act. Od Nua's quest to restore his son convinced the rulers of Engwithan society that people would treat the Beyond as a resource to be mined if they found out it was just another part of nature. As for Thaos himself, his religious belief prior to finding out the truth was important to him and he wanted to prevent people from experiencing the same despair he did. Our enlightened 21st century perspective tells us it isn't realistic for a senior figure in a society (and Thaos is implied by the Deadfire DLC to have been at or near the very top) to believe that strongly, but then maybe religious belief was as important to Engwithan politics as it is to modern American politics, and maybe after a long enough time people with earnest belief were able to attain power. Who knows

 

[FreeKaner]

Faith is inherent to human nature.

 

[fantadomat]

In the best-case scenario, from the perspective of this fighter for truth, he would become the leader of a heretical cult.

Well that was what actually happen in the first game's end,story wise. A chick decided that she will yell that shit,ended up having a cult and then getting burned as heretic by the dude.
The problem is that the game show the dude as the only authority about religion,no activity from the other religious heads and their churches is show in the story. In pantheonic religion like that of PoE,heads will be competing to get the bitch burned first.
Anyway we all agree that the writing and the story are shit,no need to flame the whole debate yet again.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

A lot of modals are excellent. Crossbow has pretty much the best modal in the game, Arquebus is pretty good on PoTD, so is Arbalest. On melee weapons it's hit or miss. Shields have decent modals. Bows are situational. Magical weapons are the worst, although Wands can be good for a pure debuffer build.

 

[fantadomat]

if you side with Director Castol and push for further animantic research, the ending slide does suggest that science is enough to sublate the death of the ('false') gods and bring about a less miserable world.

But should have in mind the person that wrote all this. It is twisted by his believes or more accurately the lack of believes. People do like to inject their views in to what they write. If i was creating such game,only the fascist way would have led to a good ending .

 

[FreeKaner]

Deadfire systems are the most apparent proof of streamlining not necessarily being balance. The standardised weapon speeds and recovery times, when combined with modals actually results in completely uneven power distribution because such streamlining only shifts the parameter of balance to next variable. It also creates situations where the streamlining is actively undermining the balance, for example all summons have 6 seconds cast time but the quality of the summons and when you acquire them has to vary.

In an environment of such absolute streamlining every value is shifted to next variable as the streamlining creates new constants. Ironically, such action emphasises the RNG factor. When the correct usage of RNG is creating an environment to react to with variables and constants.

 

[jf8350143]

I don't know whether I'm blind or something, but where do you find the Principi flag in Neketaka? Does it only spawn when you know about it? I didn't find it on my earlier run either, but at least my character knew about it. I think you can sneak in Fort Deadlight without it anyway, though.

You can get it by finish a quest line in Neketaka, and the quest giver will give you one.

 

[FreeKaner]

You only get flags from ships if you actually board them. If you sink them in naval combat you won't get a flag.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

If you sink them in naval combat you won't get a flag.

You do, it's just much smaller droprate.

 

[2house2fly]

It's nuts that the rewards for naval combat are worse than the rewards for boarding. Man, when is Christmas over in California? Obsidian needs to put out the 4.1 beta patch already

 

[FreeKaner]

It's nuts that the rewards for naval combat are worse than the rewards for boarding. Man, when is Christmas over in California? Obsidian needs to put out the 4.1 beta patch already

I mean it makes sense, you can't loot much of anything if they sink. I think the assumption is also that boarding is riskier and more resource & time consuming.

Moreover if we are being logical, in this era of naval warfare boarding was more common action than long-ranged ship duels. Simply because a ship that uses board side attack cannot give chase and losing side can easily disengage.

This is at a level already simulated in an unintended way, which shows that its an intuitive result.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's nuts that the rewards for naval combat are worse than the rewards for boarding. Man, when is Christmas over in California? Obsidian needs to put out the 4.1 beta patch already

christmas is banned in california