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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

Grunker

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Yeah it's kind of funny how Sawyer has (correctly) criticized 3.5 modifier hell but PoE effectively suffers from the same problem because of buff/debuff stacking. I try to force my builds to not rely on buffing for the same reason even though it's suboptimal
 
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Grunker

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I do think the IE games suffer from this even worse though - in high-level BG2 play you have two modes for the most part: defenses up and full HP or dead.
 

AwesomeButton

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I do think the IE games suffer from this even worse though - in high-level BG2 play you have two modes for the most part: defenses up and full HP or dead.
Playing PoE has brought to my vision such a host of RPG system problems, that I wish I had stuck with replaying BGII every year... :D

I'm contemplating a big mod that wil popamolize Deadfire, cut a lot of the complex +/-0.3% shit and make it play much more like the IE games. The main issue however is how to make all of those varied items and armors still at least a little different from each other.
 

dragonul09

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Replayed this again with all the dlcs and they are pretty decent, but all the god stuff really bogged down the entire experience, everything is related to gods and some spiritual mumbo-jumbo bullshit, you can't fart without someone mentioning the gods, for fuck sake give the player some intimacy. What also irks me is that you cant even tell most people that the gods are fake douches, what the hell was the point of the first game then?
 

2house2fly

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It would be cool if you could tell people the gods were fake and if you did it enough times you'd get a game over screen where you get sent to an asylum
 

Grunker

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Man, Magran's Fires don't really offer what I hoped for. I was hoping for more general increases in difficulty - chiefly, I would like something that cut XP gain by 25% or something. Is there a mod to that effect?
 

Butter

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Man, Magran's Fires don't really offer what I hoped for. I was hoping for more general increases in difficulty - chiefly, I would like something that cut XP gain by 25% or something. Is there a mod to that effect?
Deadly Deadfire in the Steam workshop reduces XP gain by 20%, along with some other changes.


https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/8j8ox3/game_edit_to_reduce_xp_gains/



What I really want is for XP gain to slow down gradually as you reach higher levels. I think the normal curve (hitting level 4 before leaving Maje) is fine.
 

Grunker

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Well, I'm done. I liked the ending well enough, but it's funny how the story suffers from the exact same issue as the original's in the sense of having a twist the nature of which means nothing can be revealed gradually, which in turn means the entire plot actually unfolds during the last two story missions - anything related to the main story before then is literally just "big statue, go stop, but why? if you don't you die" (as opposed to "man in robe, go stop, but why? if you don't you die").

Ironically, however, it is infinintely more sufferable in Deadfire simply because the main quest is such a tiny part of the game. That's a really odd way to make an RPG, but I liked it.

You still got all the zany fantasitis rambling that almost becomes a parody of itself, but the concepts of many factions are actually great behind the tiresome facade of affected pretention: pirates that are actually former nobles but now reduced to a mix between Battlestar Galactica and Carribean gangsters, the british empire with lotssa cool twists, a mishmash of eurocentric trading organization and ancient nobility (mercantilistic guilds meet free market-rationale), a suprisingly mature depiction of an indigenous culture that doesn't reduce them to stereotypes but doesn't make them Western-but-with-a-different-coat-paint either, and so on and so forth. The world was much more interesting this time around and even though my eyes rolled every time Tekehu said "Ekera" I found myself being curious about a lot of the places I went to and the people I talked to.

It also helped that people talked in sentences this time around - not in encyclopedic walls of boring text.

Overall I really, really liked the gameplay as well. I always wanted to love Storm of Zehir since it caters so much to my tastes (open world with overland map, vast amount of character building options, focus on exploration and visiting tons of locations for set piece encounters), but that game was so problem-ridden I've only completed it once. Deadfire really feels like what Storm of Zehir wanted to be. Yeah, there's a problem with depth of the locations, but that's a clear trade-off to have a huge map. The quests are interesting and can often be solved in a ton of ways, a lot of fights have interesting mechanics, monsters offer vastly different challenges and feel unique, locations are absolutely stunning visually, etc. etc. I could talk alot about my criticism of the combat, but no more so than with any other RPG I've played.

While quests are typically very varied and have tons of depths in terms of solutions, there's a problem with the faction mechanics in that they want you to believe they're New Vegas mechanics, but in actuality, under the hood, they're just one choice at one single point in the game. New Vegas' factions aren't as deep as some would have you believe either, but they do do one thing that Deadfire doesn't do at all: you can change how one faction's event line plays out based on interaction with other factions. In Deadfire, you're just doing quest lines and filling a reputation meter until the game is about to end, at which point the games asks you which faction, if any, you want to side with, and that's that. You could say that you need a certain amount of rep, but that's only if you, for some reason, want all factions available when the choice comes, and incidentally, I had just that in my playthrough, and all I did was complete the factions' quests and not behave like a total retard.

I still think I prefer PoE1 overall and certainly White March, and difficulty has a lot to do with it. There's more varied content in Deadfire and not a single slog a la Twin Elms or Od Nua, but the vast majority of it is much easier than WM. A notable exception is megabosses, some of which gave me a really hard time, and some of which I won't be beating until my second playthrough if at all.

I find it odd, though, that PotD overall was so easy. I mean shouldn't the logic of PotD be "better overtune than undertune"? My party was very poorly optimised, and I'm sure I made very poor build decisions with Maia, yet even bigger fights didn't challenge me after level 10. Forgotten Sanctum boss was even easier than White March kraken, which says a lot. Trash fights became downright trivial (as in, I auto-attacked my way through every non-Forgotten Sanctum trash fight from level 12 and beyond) which is probably the reason for my overall difficulty complaints, seeing as megabosses felt like they were tuned exactly right. I'm a huge proponent for "trash" fights because I play these games chiefly for encounters, but the reason trash gets so much hate is because it often a grind (if the combat is too slow) or it doesn't pose an interesting challenge ever. The latter is the case here from ~10th level and beyond.

Another quick quibble is accessibility of enchanting material like Adra Ban. I think if I were to rework the system I'd just remove the materials and have it be a gold cost and that's it. Deadfire itemization is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fucking good (seriously, shitting on PoE1&2 itemization is just downright laughable, there is just descriptively no RPGs packed with this amount of loot diversity, period - there's like 7 different sabres alone, all with intensely unique effects - and I say this as someone whose favourite game of all time is BG2), but the crafting resource system means that if you commit to some weapon and then later find another interesting one of the same type, it is completely suboptimal to also enchant that one. Basically, once you legendary a weapon, that's it: you're now committed to using this for the rest of the game.

There is literally no reason for this at all. Sure, you'd gain some amount of power if you could switch Legendary weapons suited to the situation, but then that's what the itemization is there for, right? Diversity of options and choice. As it stands, the systems locks you out of all its crazy amounts of options. They spent all that time and effort making all this coolness, then designed a crafting system that tells you to ignore all of it.

As well, I was disappointed with the lack of Soulbound items and their design. I think I used 2 or 3 Soulbound items - the rest was yellow items all the way through the game. Those yellows were fucking fantastic for the most part don't get me wrong, I just wish Soulbound items were better.

Anyway, the game was great in any case. It's sad that Sawyer won't be putting out more of these, and sad that it didn't turn a bigger profit. I think both Pillars games are by far the most worthy things to come out of Kickstarter, not that there's much competition. The sheer amount of content and polish these games have makes most other Kickstarters seem like complete amateur hour.

Man, Magran's Fires don't really offer what I hoped for. I was hoping for more general increases in difficulty - chiefly, I would like something that cut XP gain by 25% or something. Is there a mod to that effect?
Deadly Deadfire in the Steam workshop reduces XP gain by 20%, along with some other changes.


https://www.reddit.com/r/projecteternity/comments/8j8ox3/game_edit_to_reduce_xp_gains/



What I really want is for XP gain to slow down gradually as you reach higher levels. I think the normal curve (hitting level 4 before leaving Maje) is fine.

Thanks - couldn't you just edit in this tweak after hitting level 4 though? Wouldn't that do what you're wanting, which I agree would be preferable? (Especially since the first few levels can’t even be compared to the rest of the game in terms of difficulty - first drake fight is easily in the top 5 of hardest encounters)
 
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2house2fly

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Ha, that is a decent point about the structure of the plot. Deadfire does more to build it up though (for all that I like the story of the first game better) with lots of casual mentions of the Wheel as a concept throughout the game making sure it's present in the player's mind, and it becoming increasingly clear that every faction is looking for Ukaizo. It's not perfect but at least when Eothas tells you his plan you're likely to think "ah, the Wheel is a real thing" instead of "the gods aren't real" coming out of nowhere because by its very nature that twist is impossible to set up without tipping your hand
 
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Question about the factions quests:
I'm thinking about leaving the situation between Crookspur and the Wahiki tribe alone. Do you know if there would be any major repercussions for me to just leave them be and finish neither of the quests?
As far as I know there won't be any follow-up quests anyway, right?
 

Grunker

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Grunker , could you export and share your PC build?

Sure thing. Whoever told me to dump CON and max DEX was definetely right in a munchkin sense, DEX is teh nutzorz. That said my PC was the best character in the party by miles even though I ended up going with 10 DEX - I sort of pity anyone playing with a full custom party, they must be able to auto-clear nearly all content in this game:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9cjbuh3us24mkdr/Piety (47235238-6da4-43b5-88df-7b30651cfc4e).character?dl=0 <---- should be a link to my PC file, let me know if it works.

Basically a Herald tank whose MVPs for the vast majority of the game were ogre summons, lay on hands (upgraded to greater) and reviving command. I used exalted endurance but with the importance of accuracy in this one as well I'm thinking any party with just one paladin is probably better off just using zealous focus? I also tested out the skeleton phrase (not the active, the passive) at the end, it was pretty useless though I'm thinking it's probably a grand old time on a beckoner?

I really wish you could make Pallegina a full-on chanter. Upgraded Animated Weapons must be the shit for megabossing and I'll be running with her next time through. Is there a Chanter sidekick?

End-game gear ended up being:

No helm (godlike)
Cog of Cohh
Blackened Plate Armor
Ring of Reset (OPOP)
Footprints of Ahu Taka
Shroud of the Phantasm
Kaihoa
Engwithan Bracers
Whispers of the Depths
Girdle of Eoten Constitution
Blinky
Sasha's Singing Scimitar (Man I wish I found this earlier, used Kapana Taga for 96% of the whole game, Modwyr for 3% and SSS for a very short while, but SSS seems insane - definetely putting that on Pallegina for my next playthrough)
Cadhu Scalth
 
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Parabalus

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I still think I prefer PoE1 overall and certainly White March, and difficulty has a lot to do with it. There's more varied content in Deadfire and not a single slog a la Twin Elms or Od Nua, but the vast majority of it is much easier than WM. A notable exception is megabosses, some of which gave me a really hard time, and some of which I won't be beating until my second playthrough if at all.

Did you per-chance record any of your FS fights?

I just can't wrap my head around WM being harder.
 

Grunker

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I still think I prefer PoE1 overall and certainly White March, and difficulty has a lot to do with it. There's more varied content in Deadfire and not a single slog a la Twin Elms or Od Nua, but the vast majority of it is much easier than WM. A notable exception is megabosses, some of which gave me a really hard time, and some of which I won't be beating until my second playthrough if at all.

Did you per-chance record any of your FS fights?

I just can't wrap my head around WM being harder.

Nope sorry, but I could check if I have a save from the Oracle fight - repeating that fight should be easy seeing as I auto-AI'd it?

Do note this however:

(as in, I auto-attacked my way through every non-Forgotten Sanctum trash fight from level 12 and beyond)

Overall, the difficulty of Forgotten Sanctum was much better than the rest of the game, though the trash fights were oddly better than many boss encounters. I think I reloaded most to the big mushroom fight, but besides that it was to "trash" (really, really well-designed trash). For instance the archmage fight took one reload, and that reload was only because I didn't realize initially I could just destroy the power crystal things. Once I did that the encounter was trivial.

EDIT: Unfortunately I don't have any saves from FS-content :/

WjDZNDl.jpg
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Also very minor thing: Maia left me since I sided with the Vailians, and it seems the developers didn't really think players who had her for the whole game would make this choice. At least the ending slides didn't mention her leaving at all and discussed her relationship with Xoti much more than her relationship with the PC - even though her relationship with Xoti consisted of two banters at like level 5, lol. I'd actually forgotten about it until the end slides brought it up. Meanwhile no mention of the (fairly well written I thought) break with the PC over ideological differences.

Serafen and Maia are the most well-written companions in the series save Durance I think. Especially Maia has none of that new age writing teenage-zaniness, she actually seems like a real adult with a professionel career alot of the time, but she never really becomes boring. She also has a subtle sense of humor, which is something I don't remember seeing in a video game ever, lol.
 
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Riddler

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Bubbles In Memoria
I still think I prefer PoE1 overall and certainly White March, and difficulty has a lot to do with it. There's more varied content in Deadfire and not a single slog a la Twin Elms or Od Nua, but the vast majority of it is much easier than WM. A notable exception is megabosses, some of which gave me a really hard time, and some of which I won't be beating until my second playthrough if at all.

Did you per-chance record any of your FS fights?

I just can't wrap my head around WM being harder.

Perhaps this is due to him mostly having a passive focused party that can't be interrupted? I had to reload a couple of times during the oracle fight due to the rays and hounds perpetually interrupting my mages with their rays and "blink strikes". I only really used my mages for damage so that happening really put a wrench into things.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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^ that might be it and brings up another quibble I have with the game, which seems like it's been mentioned a lot in this thread?

Going for attack-focused characters that deal damage backed up by a single buffing or debuffing caster seems like the right way to make a party, no? Why cast a spell on PotD when fights - and this is much more true for the hard fights, which are the important ones - actually last very long? Why not build characters that don't rely on single use resources when the impact of those single-use effects are often so slight?

One of the reasons that Chanter-Anything seems a nobrainer: it just pumps out value constantly both in terms of permanent effects and regenerating resources for powerful single-use stuff, while ALSO being able to do whatever fighting-thing you need. I mean, Animated Weapons is one of the best abilities in the game - why does it have infinite uses compared to spellcasters who can use their high level abilities once or twice?
 
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Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
These are all good questions which should've been asked (and were, but by the beta testers) when the system was being designed. Chanters and Ciphers already were a bit iffy in PoE1 due to their being outside of the mechanics of the rest of the classes, but this game makes the distinction even greater.
 

Sabotin

Scholar
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I guess it's one of those difficulty related things. I suppose on lower ones you can demolish everything with a few spells and the chanter doesn't have enough time for infinite resources to shine?.

Oh, for wizards at least you can have bloodmage subclass which recovers spells by using health.
 

Parabalus

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I still think I prefer PoE1 overall and certainly White March, and difficulty has a lot to do with it. There's more varied content in Deadfire and not a single slog a la Twin Elms or Od Nua, but the vast majority of it is much easier than WM. A notable exception is megabosses, some of which gave me a really hard time, and some of which I won't be beating until my second playthrough if at all.

Did you per-chance record any of your FS fights?

I just can't wrap my head around WM being harder.

Perhaps this is due to him mostly having a passive focused party that can't be interrupted? I had to reload a couple of times during the oracle fight due to the rays and hounds perpetually interrupting my mages with their rays and "blink strikes". I only really used my mages for damage so that happening really put a wrench into things.

I think I reloaded on the Frightened Child side fight more than on the entire WM.

These are all good questions which should've been asked (and were, but by the beta testers) when the system was being designed. Chanters and Ciphers already were a bit iffy in PoE1 due to their being outside of the mechanics of the rest of the classes, but this game makes the distinction even greater.

Monks also. With the new update Blood Mages (Wizards) and Fighters (Tacticians) can also regenerate resources on their own.

The others can be fueled by Ciphers or Chanters though.
 

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