Summons take forever to cast and get interrupted, so I'm fairly sure you should go high DEX no matter what. Spending 6 phrases on animate weapon and having it interrupted and lost is pretty damned punishing.
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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!
- Thread starter TT1
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Summons take forever to cast and get interrupted, so I'm fairly sure you should go high DEX no matter what. Spending 6 phrases on animate weapon and having it interrupted and lost is pretty damned punishing.
Yes, Konstanten
Exactly. I wrote about this in the end of September:
However, I still wouldn't say I'm having exactly an easy time on PotD, probably because I have no base of comparison, probably because I should wait to get a little overleveled before I go into certain quests. Most of my characters don't have a high Dex either. I'll post the party later.
^ I didn't have many high dex characters either. And yeah as far as your attrition comment goes, it's one I've seen made in the thread a few times. They essentially did a really good job fixing the problem of 3.5 and similar RPGs where the initial seconds of combat can be so lethal you don't really get to play different abilities off on each other, it just seems like they didn't bring spells and limited resource-abilities up to snuff. Essentially it seems like they went halfway towards a system where everyone slowly regens resources. That's why Empower is there (you'll recall I was very miffed about it earlier) - to either regen resources for these long fights or make classes that hinge on important casts more viable. It just seems really tacked on instead of balancing the whole system around the slow combat in the first place.
It would be idiotic if I was unaware that they'd intentionally decided to write improper Gods. But I am aware, I just think that intention was a bad idea, or it didn't realise whatever potential it might have.
Similarly, Sawyer's disregard for player/protagonist agency in the PoE2 ending was awful, no less so for being intentional.
A lot of settings already have Gods that are created not creators, and are dependent on meatbag rituals for their 'divine' power - including Forgotten Realms itself. Unfortunately the Pillars writing on Gods neither holds fast to a proper archetype, nor invented something original.
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Funnily enough I only needed to reload the oracle ones, all others were first tries for me.
Quillon
Arcane
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Nice 180 there.
And irrelevant ending argument, be more cohesive ffs!
Gods are awful.. hurr durr, how are they awful? They are bickering idiots is the usual argument and the second argument is they are awful because [insert hyperbole] which really means: because its PoE and not DnD so everything about it is awful so Gods are too!
Also I didn't play any other RPG where they used their gods like Obs did in PoEs, which is unique enough. Otherwise everyone copied from Tolkien, nothing is original, yo.
And for the ending; after playing the game to its end how anyone have expected to defeat the giant adra statue god is beyond me. I'm not saying its good but it was crystal clear that he was invincible from the beginning. And most of choices at the end causes vastly different outcomes combined with the faction choice(which is why I think it is a shitty ending cos a potential sequel will either retcon stuff or choose one of the endings as canon), lack of player agency my ass.
Theldaran
Liturgist
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I'm not meaning to play POE2 anytime soon, but I have to ask. Those "outcomes" than your decision causes, are they just handwaved in some wall of text as with the first part? Because that's the same that the conclusion to Baldur's Gate did back in 2001, and BG is starting to be regarded as pretty lame here. Why not apply the same to a game that calls itself "the closest to BG"?
Actually I quite liked the Gods as presented in the Council of stars in PoE1, and even more the stuff with Ondra and Abydon in WM2. Their presence in PoE2, bickering and ineffectual, was indeed irritating and boring, but that's not the criticism I'm trying to make here.
What I'm criticising in particular is the Gods being created by mortals, and being dependent on mortals for their divine power. This reduces the mystique of the Gods and ties their motives to the mortal plane, both of which I think make the setting less interesting.
There are potential upsides: for their creation by mortals, you can think of an interesting motive for the Gods to have been made. As for their power relying on mortals, that makes it incredibly easy to come up with plots about the Gods, faiths, and nations vying for power.
The problem is, Obshitian didn't come up with an interesting motive for the Engwithans, and they didn't write religious conflict into PoE2. So they have none of the upsides, they're just left with the downsides of mundane-created, mundane-dependent Gods, which is the lack of mystique and the lack of a higher plane of divine concerns. If the Engwithans had created a specific set of Gods with a specific set of teachings for a specific purpose, that would have been interesting. Instead they create a general-purpose set of Gods with no over-arching set of teachings, and their motive is what, to keep everyone on an even keel emotionally and philosophically? Vague and boring.
If PoE2's factions had been associated with particular Gods or faiths and fought against each other on that basis, that would've been interesting. The player could maybe choose to support pro- or anti-Eothasian coups in some of the factions. If the adra statue were vulnerable to ship cannon, then you have an interesting plot right there, tying together the factional conflict with the divine storyline! This shit basically writes itself once you remove Sawyer's insane decision that the protagonist (which is Eothas, not the PC) should be invincible. One of the most common criticisms of PoE2's plot is the massive disconnect between the divine plot and the factional plots.
I wouldn't have wanted the adra statue to be a boss fight, of course that would have been retarded. But the games practically cries out for a plot where you obey Woedica and the other reactionary Gods by sabotaging adra pillars before Eothas can tap their power - power he needs to keep the statue moving. And on the way you'd be opposed by Eothasian zealots. Alternatively, since Eothas can incarnate into an adra statue, and since the other Gods also once had giant bodies they inhabited, you could have a plot based siding with either the reactionary or the progressive Gods, and sorting things out for them so they can incarnate themselves into statues to defend or destroy the wheel with straightfoward force.
There is a lack of player agency. You can't stop Eothas (although you can suddenly persuade him to kill the world for no good reason, which is retarded). You can't help Eothas much either (or at all? can't remember clearly). Sure, there are ending slides, but when the main plot doesn't need the player character to even be there, that's just irritating.
PoE2's plot is fascinating in one sense: even months after playing it, it still makes me butthurt and think of all the missed opportunities.
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The single worst thing in PoE2's writing has to be that ship of Eothasian zealots who kill themselves hoping to feed Eothas their soulpower. It would have been perfectly interesting, both morally and plotwise, if that sacrifice actually worked, and you could either oppose or support it. Instead it was just some commiefornian anti-religious propaganda, that still managed to piss me off even though I'm an atheist myself.
I think it was intended to be ~*anticlimactic*~
2house2fly
Magister
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Whether the Engwithan motive for creating the gods is interesting is kind of subjective. Personally I like the idea of creating gods both to save the world from existential despair and enforce your own culture's values worldwide
Theldaran
Liturgist
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That's fine, but take the first game for example. The gods make a very minor portion of the game, after you've crawled through endless filler combat. Not nice.
Grunker I tried importing your character but the game wouldn't allow me because she is lvl 20. Also, I had a little exclamation mark icon in the tavern interface - "this character was created using cheats". I guess you enabled the cheats from the console?
Here is a link to my party's character sheets and abilities, currently lvl 14: https://imgur.com/a/271DQ8L
Here is a link to my party's character sheets and abilities, currently lvl 14: https://imgur.com/a/271DQ8L
Yeah I used the console to add adra bans to test out Sasha's Singing Saber (didn't find it until level 20 when I was all out and I think I'm gonna build around it for my next playthrough with the Lash upgrade).
Why can't you import it just because it's level 20?
EDIT: Ah because you have to hire people at below your level? Lol, Antifun Sawyer is here to patrol what you're doing
Though I guess it makes sense for achievements and such, I just don't give a shit about that stuff.
You haven't upgraded any of your actives - why is this? I find that width of options doesn't matter much on non-casters, there you want your 2 core abilities and maybe 1 situational ability, and you want to upgrade those to the max? Especially the aura upgrades seem a nobrainer?
Efe
Erudite
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when recruiting there is "native level" and custom level checkbox.
I was wondering how the game would handle this case, and was hoping that it would just wipe off any selections above my party's level and would downscale the imported character. But for now it just gives you an alert box that you can't import this character.
If you mean the Paladin/Fighter, it's because I'm using him mainly as a tank, and less as support - hence the Goldpact Knight subclass. The Priest/Druid is the main support guy.
I've upgraded Gilded Enmity to Sworn rival, because of the point refund.
Flames of devotion - I've picked that so that I have something with which to expend my Paladin points during combat, and it's also useful occasionally, even with the paladin's low accuracy.
I picked Lay on Hands for extreme situations, or maybe I haven't been able to find anything more useful at that levelup when I've picked it. I didn't upgrade that one because my Priest/Druid already comes with The Moon's Light, Nature's Balm, Moonwell, Cleansing Wind by default because of his Lifegiver Druid subclass, and I've picked Restore, Iconic Projection and Consecrated Ground from the Priest side. So, plenty of healing options. Lay on Hands is a backup, if I urgently need someone healed and the priest is busy with something else.
Zealous Aura - it's passive and doesn't consume anything, so why not.
Reinforcing Exhortation - better boost someone's defenses instead of healing him when he's lost health. I use this mainly on my Barbarian/Figher, if he has gotten into trouble, or to protect my Priest if he has to come closer to the front line to cast something with an AoE that's around himself.
The Rogue/Ranger is by now well known and appreciated, but I particularly like the Wizard/Chanter combination - you can take all the summons and chants you want, and from the Wizard side, take only passives and count on your grimoire for spells. It's like having a backliner Chanter with added grimoire casting.
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OK AwesomeButton I'm just gonna go all out here on the critique but keep in mind I haven't read any guides or anything so this is just my experience talking which might well be worthless and I might just be talking shit:
1) If you're mainly using the Paladin as a tank, that makes the aura upgrade all the more important. I thought you were doing damage since a) your stats are kind of shit, b) your abilities are all over the place with Sworn Enemy + Flames of Devotion + Lay on Hands
. Aura is an always on megabuff that doesn't cost resources. TBH though is there any reason NOT to go support with your Paladin tank in Deadfire?
2) The class resource system means you'll be using 1 ability for spam and maybe one or two for situations that arise during bosses. Points are sparse and can't be spread like that for in-case abilities, you gotta focus, IMO. The points in Flames of Devotion are completely wasted for this reason but the problem is even bigger since you have low Perception so even when you use it, it's marginal.
3)
My NO. 1 Ancestor's Memory (or whatever it's called, the Cipher thing that grants Brilliant which gives back class resources) target was my Herald. You'll be using those points on Sworn Enemy, Lay On Hands and Reinforcing Exhaltation. For me, Reiving Exhortation was so great in boss fights I gave Tekehu a rezz just to make sure I could get my Herald back if she fell. If you're using Reinforcing as your "strat" it seems to me your points should be spent, in these situations, on that and not a slight damage buff or whatever?
I was constantly starved for class resources due to my reliance on the key abilities I built around - I can't imagine a difficult fight where I wouldn't be using those abilities rather than a wide range of unupgraded stuff.
Many of the abilities are completely dependent on the upgrade and a shadow of themselves without it IMO.
Again I just don't see why you wouldn't do the support thing with your Pala tank - there's no real opportunity cost, is there?
4) I dunno about your stats since I don't know if Intellect is AS crucial on a Pala/Fighter as it is on a Herald, but why the high Might? Might doesn't do anything at all on your character since you're not specced into heals yet and you don't have enough Perception to deal damage. So yeah stats are a bit all over the place and a lot of points seem wasted tbh.
5)
Exactly - so upgrade it :D
1) If you're mainly using the Paladin as a tank, that makes the aura upgrade all the more important. I thought you were doing damage since a) your stats are kind of shit, b) your abilities are all over the place with Sworn Enemy + Flames of Devotion + Lay on Hands
. Aura is an always on megabuff that doesn't cost resources. TBH though is there any reason NOT to go support with your Paladin tank in Deadfire?2) The class resource system means you'll be using 1 ability for spam and maybe one or two for situations that arise during bosses. Points are sparse and can't be spread like that for in-case abilities, you gotta focus, IMO. The points in Flames of Devotion are completely wasted for this reason but the problem is even bigger since you have low Perception so even when you use it, it's marginal.
3)
My NO. 1 Ancestor's Memory (or whatever it's called, the Cipher thing that grants Brilliant which gives back class resources) target was my Herald. You'll be using those points on Sworn Enemy, Lay On Hands and Reinforcing Exhaltation. For me, Reiving Exhortation was so great in boss fights I gave Tekehu a rezz just to make sure I could get my Herald back if she fell. If you're using Reinforcing as your "strat" it seems to me your points should be spent, in these situations, on that and not a slight damage buff or whatever?
I was constantly starved for class resources due to my reliance on the key abilities I built around - I can't imagine a difficult fight where I wouldn't be using those abilities rather than a wide range of unupgraded stuff.
Many of the abilities are completely dependent on the upgrade and a shadow of themselves without it IMO.
Again I just don't see why you wouldn't do the support thing with your Pala tank - there's no real opportunity cost, is there?
4) I dunno about your stats since I don't know if Intellect is AS crucial on a Pala/Fighter as it is on a Herald, but why the high Might? Might doesn't do anything at all on your character since you're not specced into heals yet and you don't have enough Perception to deal damage. So yeah stats are a bit all over the place and a lot of points seem wasted tbh.
5)
Exactly - so upgrade it :D
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My points went into passive abilities, and they all seem worthwhile:
Deep Faith (+10 all defenses)
Retribution (+5% damage with weapons)
Weapon and Shield Style (+6 Shield Deflection, Shield Deflection bonus applies to Reflex)
Divine Purpose (+20 All Defenses vs Resolve, Dexterity or Might affliction)
Snake's Reflexes (to boost my Reflex, because from ability score bonuses I'm only getting a +4 from the 12 Dexterity)
Tough (+2 HP per level)
Determination (+20 All Defenses vs Intellect, Perception, Constitution afflictions)
Confident Aim (30% of Grazes converted to Hits with proficient weapons) - offsets the low Accuracy to an extent.
Weapon Specialization (+10% damage with proficient weapons)
This is a tank that's doing lots of grazes, but they get a +15% damage bonus (from Retribution + Weapon Specialization) and 1/3 of them are converted to Hits, which also get a +15% damage bonus. I've also given him Gauntlets of Reliability - 15% of Misses converted to Grazes, to squeeze out some more damage out of him.
I try to avoid knockouts entirely. For 50 hours with this party, I've had 5 knockouts on my PC, 1 knockout on my Figher/Paladin, 2 knockouts on the Rogue/Ranger, 3 on the Priest/Druid, 2 on the Chanter/Wizard.
Sure, I will upgrade the auras when I get to level 16. The upgraded versions all seem quite powerful actually.
I didn't see much purpose for intellect on the kind of paladin I was planning, hence I've left it 10 (9 base + Old Vailia background). None of the stuff he is doing has duration or AoE which would have benefited from higher Intelligence. As for the Will defense, he is getting a good enough bonus from his Resolve score (+12) and Deep Faith (+14.4) and another +10 from worn items. This is before the +20 Will I will get from any attack on my Will defense that tries to apply an affliction.
Overall, yeah, I'm missing out on the aura bonuses, but it hasn't been a pain, or felt like a big loss. I'll upgrade to them next.
EDIT: Looking at the aura bonuses one by one, I can't really regret all that much not having picked them yet:
1. Exalted Focus: +5 Accuracy, 5% of Hits converted to Crits - honestly, 5% seems like too little, although the +5 Accuracy is something I want, but I am already getting that with the non-upgraded version - Zealous Focus. So, spending a point at level up for a 1 in 20 hits being converted to a Crit? Other abilities seem like a better trade.
2. Exalted Charge: 10% of incoming Hits converted to Grazes - I can reduce the amount of damage I am taking by simply buffing my defenses or armor ratings, or causing afflictions which lower the enemies' accuracy - which is much preferable IMO. Again, this seems like a point I would spend better elsewhere.
3. Exaltred Endurance: +3 Health restored per 3 seconds - The only one that really feels worth it. But I already have a big number of spells that regenerate health on my Priest/Druid (already listed them), and on my 2 characters which I expect will be taking most of the damage, I already have Constant Recovery on the Paladin/Figher, and Rapid Recovery, Savage Defiance (10hp per 3s for a total of 15s) on the Barbarian/Figher. Still, one more health regeneration effect wouldn't be bad to have, especially for free, and if I feel my Paladin/Figher is already stable enough as a tank.
BTW, Savage Defiance has an Instant casting time. You pause when your recovery timer runs out, click the button and you have it active, before even unpausing. In 15s you have healed yourself for 50 health.
BTW2, first impression from The Forgotten Scrotum dialogues - Alex Scokel is a nice guy, but he is watching too many superhero movies. That, or he is consciously trying to appeal to people who do.
EDIT: Here are the kills and damage statistics:
. Total Damage Done Hits Crits Enemies Defeated
Koa 44 555 2594 345 146
Oswald 12 025.7 613 35 30
Jenny 59 679 3416 305 191
Cyrdel 16 221.2 6342 79 60
Laquisha 20 935.2 3391 138 87
My Figher/Paladin is doing a little under 10% of the damage in the party. I'm not sure how this goes for a character built as a tank, but my feeling is that it's a nice bonus to his tanking, which as I've cited (1 knockout for 50 hours) is a role he is fulfilling really well.
To be honest, this Paladin/Fighter build works so well as a tank that I often don't even have to use other abilities than Sworn Rival, and then just spam Mule Kick from the Fighter pool. Mule Kick tends to be annoying in how it cancels your other characters' autoattack commands, while the target is in the air and its targeting circle is not present.
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When you create a paladin you have to choose either Flames of Devotion or Lay on Hands, I believe. Since I had to pick one, I picked Flames of Devotion.
Also, why the high Might - because I heal sometimes, and I hit things sometimes. And because of the Fortitude bonus. Since this is a tank, I've mainly been thinking about the defenses bonuses when assigning attributes.
This "your Perception is key because it boosts your Accuracy" myth needs to stop. Five attribute points into Perception for 5 accuracy - does this seem worthwhile to you? There is the reflex gain, but I'd rather get my reflex up by boosting Dexterity, and get some extra action speed than by increasing Perception.
My Paladin/Fighter has a total of 65 Accuracy at level 14, with all the level bonuses and item and weapon bonuses. One cast of Blessing and I get +5 Accuracy from Insightful. BTW, Bessing is nearly always the first thing that my dedicated support Priest/Druid will cast. Another cast of Devotions of the Faithful, and I get another +10 Accuracy. With a total of 80 Accuracy, he is pretty decent. Then I can hit with Flames of Devotion, just in order to have the bonus +10 Accuray with which it's cast. That's now form 65 to 90 Accuracy, nearly 30% up. Does the lost Perception bonus to Accuracy still look that important?
It's the same with the Deflection and the defenses bonuses. The difference is that the increase to Accuracy and Deflection is +1 while for the 3 remaining defenses it's +2. Josh explained this in a GDC presentation, he wanted to give some incentive for people to increase this or that attribute, but wanted to split the incentive evenly between all attributes.
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