Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[Delterius]

Proper Gods should be creators, not created, and definitely shouldn't have their divine power dependent on the trite mumbo-jumbo of meatbags.

They weren't meant to be "proper gods"

Enlighten us what they were meant to be then.

The idea in the game is pure ass.

The main conceit of Pillars of Eternity is that its inhabitants *think* they live in the Forgotten Realms with activist gods and clearly delineated measures of good and evil conduct but actually they live in a Nietzschean world where the "good and evil" enforced by the gods is good and evil as the Engwithan philospher-scientists envisioned it should be (conductive to social stability, even at the cost of stagnation).

So instead of a world driven by metaphysics, you have the world driving metaphysics.

So, shit concept.

Kind of subjective. Also, all of the Realms-like alternatives have been exhaustively explored.

Already explored? Well. What's your opinion on shooters? MMOs? And people still flock to them.

I say, better do the tried-and-tested but do it well and putting effort. POE tried so hard to be so avant-garde it failed right away.

I nominate 'RPGs should be like shooters' as my 2018 RPG Codex phrase of the year.

 

[Theldaran]

Proper Gods should be creators, not created, and definitely shouldn't have their divine power dependent on the trite mumbo-jumbo of meatbags.

They weren't meant to be "proper gods"

Enlighten us what they were meant to be then.

The idea in the game is pure ass.

The main conceit of Pillars of Eternity is that its inhabitants *think* they live in the Forgotten Realms with activist gods and clearly delineated measures of good and evil conduct but actually they live in a Nietzschean world where the "good and evil" enforced by the gods is good and evil as the Engwithan philospher-scientists envisioned it should be (conductive to social stability, even at the cost of stagnation).

So instead of a world driven by metaphysics, you have the world driving metaphysics.

So, shit concept.

Kind of subjective. Also, all of the Realms-like alternatives have been exhaustively explored.

Already explored? Well. What's your opinion on shooters? MMOs? And people still flock to them.

I say, better do the tried-and-tested but do it well and putting effort. POE tried so hard to be so avant-garde it failed right away.

I nominate 'RPGs should be like shooters' as my 2018 RPG Codex phrase of the year.

Who said that? That Templar fag?

 

[Grunker]

TBH though is there any reason NOT to go support with your Paladin tank in Deadfire?

My points went into passive abilities, and they all seem worthwhile:
Deep Faith (+10 all defenses)
Retribution (+5% damage with weapons)
Weapon and Shield Style (+6 Shield Deflection, Shield Deflection bonus applies to Reflex)
Divine Purpose (+20 All Defenses vs Resolve, Dexterity or Might affliction)
Snake's Reflexes (to boost my Reflex, because from ability score bonuses I'm only getting a +4 from the 12 Dexterity)
Tough (+2 HP per level)
Determination (+20 All Defenses vs Intellect, Perception, Constitution afflictions)
Confident Aim (30% of Grazes converted to Hits with proficient weapons) - offsets the low Accuracy to an extent.
Weapon Specialization (+10% damage with proficient weapons)

This is a tank that's doing lots of grazes, but they get a +15% damage bonus (from Retribution + Weapon Specialization) and 1/3 of them are converted to Hits, which also get a +15% damage bonus. I've also given him Gauntlets of Reliability - 15% of Misses converted to Grazes, to squeeze out some more damage out of him.

That's all worth it and I haven't commented on it, but Flames are not IMO.

I try to avoid knockouts entirely. For 50 hours with this party, I've had 5 knockouts on my PC, 1 knockout on my Figher/Paladin, 2 knockouts on the Rogue/Ranger, 3 on the Priest/Druid, 2 on the Chanter/Wizard.

And like I said that makes sense - there were some megabosses where reviving was a bad plan and I wish I had more inherent tankiness. I wasn't arguing for Reviving, I was arguing for spending your points on your main stuff. Which in your case seems to be Reinforcing?

Sure, I will upgrade the auras when I get to level 16. The upgraded versions all seem quite powerful actually.

Why wait, though?

I didn't see much purpose for intellect on the kind of paladin I was planning, hence I've left it 10 (9 base + Old Vailia background). None of the stuff he is doing has duration or AoE which would have benefited from higher Intelligence. As for the Will defense, he is getting a good enough bonus from his Resolve score (+12) and Deep Faith (+14.4) and another +10 from worn items. This is before the +20 Will I will get from any attack on my Will defense that tries to apply an affliction.

But what does Might do on this guy? And remember that intellect affects auraus too.

EDIT: Looking at the aura bonuses one by one, I can't really regret all that much not having picked them yet:
1. Exalted Focus: +5 Accuracy, 5% of Hits converted to Crits - honestly, 5% seems like too little, although the +5 Accuracy is something I want, but I am already getting that with the non-upgraded version - Zealous Focus. So, spending a point at level up for a 1 in 20 hits being converted to a Crit? Other abilities seem like a better trade.
2. Exalted Charge: 10% of incoming Hits converted to Grazes - I can reduce the amount of damage I am taking by simply buffing my defenses or armor ratings, or causing afflictions which lower the enemies' accuracy - which is much preferable IMO. Again, this seems like a point I would spend better elsewhere.
3. Exaltred Endurance: +3 Health restored per 3 seconds - The only one that really feels worth it. But I already have a big number of spells that regenerate health on my Priest/Druid (already listed them), and on my 2 characters which I expect will be taking most of the damage, I already have Constant Recovery on the Paladin/Figher, and Rapid Recovery, Savage Defiance (10hp per 3s for a total of 15s) on the Barbarian/Figher. Still, one more health regeneration effect wouldn't be bad to have, especially for free, and if I feel my Paladin/Figher is already stable enough as a tank.

5 Accuracy is fucking great - it's a craft upgrade on everybody it affects. Accuracy is the most important stat in the game IMO and there's so few ways to get it.

BTW, Savage Defiance has an Instant casting time. You pause when your recovery timer runs out, click the button and you have it active, before even unpausing. In 15s you have healed yourself for 50 health.

BTW2, first impression from The Forgotten Scrotum dialogues - Alex Scokel is a nice guy, but he is watching too many superhero movies. That, or he is consciously trying to appeal to people who do.

EDIT: Here are the kills and damage statistics:
. ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍Total Damage Done ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍Hits ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍Crits ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍Enemies Defeated
Koa ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍44 555 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍2594 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍345 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍146
Oswald ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍12 025.7 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍613 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍35 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍30
Jenny ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍59 679 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍3416 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍305 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍191
Cyrdel ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍16 221.2 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍6342 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍79 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍60
Laquisha ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍20 935.2 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍3391 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍138 ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍ ‍‍‍‍‍‍ ‍‍87

My Figher/Paladin is doing a little under 10% of the damage in the party. I'm not sure how this goes for a character built as a tank, but my feeling is that it's a nice bonus to his tanking, which as I've cited (1 knockout for 50 hours) is a role he is fulfilling really well.

10% of his damage, and how much of that is FoD do you think?

Also I liked the Forgotten Sanctum dialogue

To be honest, this Paladin/Fighter build works so well as a tank that I often don't even have to use other abilities than Sworn Rival, and then just spam Mule Kick from the Fighter pool. Mule Kick tends to be annoying in how it cancels your other characters' autoattack commands, while the target is in the air and its targeting circle is not present.

That's not an argument for spending points on so many abilities, it's the opposite, in fact

 

[Lacrymas]

This is the point you realize the Paladin abilities aren't actually good and are all over the place, with very few that are useful. This goes for a lot of classes though, there are clearly superior abilities that vastly outperform others.

 

[Grunker]

I think the point is more than steady auto-stuff wins the race, there are few actives that makes a massive impact. Like I wrote earlier:

^ that might be it and brings up another quibble I have with the game, which seems like it's been mentioned a lot in this thread?

Going for attack-focused characters that deal damage backed up by a single buffing or debuffing caster seems like the right way to make a party, no? Why cast a spell on PotD when fights - and this is much more true for the hard fights, which are the important ones - actually last very long? Why not build characters that don't rely on single use resources when the impact of those single-use effects are often so slight?

One of the reasons that Chanter-Anything seems a nobrainer: it just pumps out value constantly both in terms of permanent effects and regenerating resources for powerful single-use stuff, while ALSO being able to do whatever fighting-thing you need. I mean, Animated Weapons is one of the best abilities in the game - why does it have infinite uses compared to spellcasters who can use their high level abilities once or twice?

 

[FreeKaner]

This is the point you realize the Paladin abilities aren't actually good and are all over the place, with very few that are useful. This goes for a lot of classes though, there are clearly superior abilities that vastly outperform others.

That's not true. However there needs to be clear and coherent strategy in your character build with the actives and passives you chose very strictly supporting each other. If you stray and pick individual abilities then on their own they are generally useless.

 

[AwesomeButton]

That's all worth it and I haven't commented on it, but Flames are not IMO

Like I said, at character creation, I had to pick - Flames of Devotion or Lay on Hands. Had to pick one.

Second, I listed those as explanation why I didn't upgrade any of the actives apart from Marked Enemy. This is "where the points went".

Why wait, though?

At the time I wrote this I had already turned lvl 15 and went to Forgotten Sanctum

But what does Might do on this guy? And remember that intellect affects auraus too.

I answered this in my next post - Might gives him Fortitude, and helps out when he hits or heals, which are secondary functions.

Also I liked the Forgotten Sanctum dialogue

Oh, I've just started the expansion. I was commenting on the Llengrath-Tayn stuff in the beginning.

10% of his damage

No, that's nearly 10% of the party's damage output (8-9% to be exact).

5 Accuracy is fucking great - it's a craft upgrade on everybody it affects. Accuracy is the most important stat in the game IMO and there's so few ways to get it.

Yes, and I already have this 5 Accuracy, before upgrading the Aura to "Exalted"

 

[Prime Junta]

Like I said, at character creation, I had to pick - Flames of Devotion or Lay on Hands. Had to pick one.

Normally you kind of decide on what kind of character you want to make at character creation. If you're going for an alpha-striker/active paladin, Flames + stats that support it. If you're going for a support/tank paladin, Lay on Hands plus stats to match. Picking Flames and then building a tank is sub-optimal.

 

[FreeKaner]

For example flames of devotion build with paladin can work but you have to go say Bleakwalker, eternal flame, retribution, two-handed style, weapon proficiency and boost your accuracy in some ways then you can do those high two-hander crits. If you are playing sword and board support paladin you might use the shared flames with the inspired beacon etc.

 

[Prime Junta]

Why NO AwesomeButton? Am confuse.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Like I said, at character creation, I had to pick - Flames of Devotion or Lay on Hands. Had to pick one.

Normally you kind of decide on what kind of character you want to make at character creation. If you're going for an alpha-striker/active paladin, Flames + stats that support it. If you're going for a support/tank paladin, Lay on Hands plus stats to match. Picking Flames and then building a tank is sub-optimal.

I don't think so. Flames of Devotion is a guaranteed +10 Accuracy on the attack when it's used. Even if your target is immune to the fire damage, you can still chip off some health. For the reasoning behind picking Flames of Devotion instead of Lay on Hands, see the list of healing spells my Priest/Druid comes with. I've posted that on this page. At character creation, having Lay on Hands on the Paladin/Fighter felt redundant. Anyway, I still got Lay on Hands later.

Flames of Devotion vs Lay on Hands, the truth is that neither is very useful - in my case. My tank build is already very strong at what he does. But if I am forced to choose one, I choose to go with the one that gives me bonus accuracy.

 

[Yosharian]

So are we saying Perception isn't worth maxing?

 

[FreeKaner]

Perception ironically is better for casters than attackers honestly.

 

[Prime Junta]

There's still opportunity cost. You could've used the perks/stats to make Flames work on stuff that would've made you better at tanking/support.

But whatever rocks your boat mang.

 

[AwesomeButton]

So are we saying Perception isn't worth maxing?

On a character which you expect will get attacked a lot - a frontliner, I'd say it's not. On a character which will be a backliner and you expect will be attacking a lot, then yes, I'd give him a boost.

 

[AwesomeButton]

There's still opportunity cost. You could've used the perks/stats to make Flames work on stuff that would've made you better at tanking/support.

But whatever rocks your boat mang.

One more time - I had to pick either Flames or Lay on Hands when I was creating the Paladin. Given that I have a dedicated healer, I went with Flames. Hence - no opportunity cost here.

 

[FreeKaner]

This is my ship, thanks for your concern:

 

[Orma]

Flames of Devotion is good on a support/tank paladin only if you picked the Kind Wayfarer subclass.

Then it becomes 'Wh*te Flames' which also heals your allies nearby.

 

[Parabalus]

The AoE version adds damage to your entire party.

 

[FreeKaner]

AoE version combined with the Inspired Beacon is actually a significant damage boost to your melees.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Flames of Devotion is good on a support/tank paladin only if you picked the Kind Wayfarer subclass.

Then it becomes 'Wh*te Flames' which also heals your allies nearby.

I had a very good first run with a Bleak Walker who gets Black Flames. He functioned as a melee heavy hitter and off-tank. But for a main tank, I find the Goldpact Knight/Fighter combination to be very strong. That's +4 Armor Rating.

AoE version combined with the Inspired Beacon is actually a significant damage boost to your melees.

I only have one other melee guy - my Barbarian/Fighter. It doesn't make the upgraded Flames useless, but my primary concern is to build him as a tank.

Anyone who can recommend a tank build go ahead, I'd like to compare it to mine and see where I can improve.

 

[Prime Junta]

One more time - I had to pick either Flames or Lay on Hands when I was creating the Paladin. Given that I have a dedicated healer, I went with Flames. Hence - no opportunity cost here.

Whatevz my man. I just disagree with that s'all.

 

[Flou]

I think I reloaded on the Frightened Child side fight more than on the entire WM.

That fucking child just instagibbed someone at will whenever I had the fight under control. Had to actually cheat on it and pull the three melee guys from the door to big room and kill them there and then take her on.
I just didn't have enough summons left after SSS as I didn't realize Josh had put a use limit on the items.

Oracle of Wael did give me some trouble and I had to use everything to get that damn thing down. I think it took me about 10 tries, but at least that fight did not go wrong in the first 10 seconds.

But this DLC definately did have some challenging encounters at least for my group and I had to actually focus.

Overall I think White March was harder for me, since the game changed a lot between 1.0 and 3.0 and coming back after 1 year break those fights at Concelhaut's were really hard. I don't I even tried killing Llengrath after swearing like goddamn sailor on Concelhaut. But then again I'm sure my party compositions were not optimal and my rogue definately was not well created.

 

[Haplo]

Flames of Devotion is a guaranteed +10 Accuracy on the attack when it's used. Even if your target is immune to the fire damage, you can still chip off some health.

Its +20 with Ring of Focused Flame. Also damage increases when using Fire Power Level boosting equipment, like Magran's Axe or Sun and Moon flail.

 

[Haplo]

Anyone who can recommend a tank build go ahead, I'd like to compare it to mine and see where I can improve.

I can recommend a Swashbuckler, a two handed Estoc Devoted / Streetfighter in my case. Rogue offers a ton of damage boosts, estoc frequently overpenetrates for +30% damage. When surrounded and/or blooded, the Streetfighter boosts are simply crazy and enemies start to die real fast.
Once you get Unbending, it is very difficult to down you. Salvation of Time is your friend.

Alternatively a Trickster would be significantly more tanky, while still offering good damage.