Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[AwesomeButton]

What! Rymrgand ! does have analingus name !! He does! It does make me think !! It does!

Kohopa and Tangaloa are performing a Rymrgand on each other. Another one of the gods' conspiracies

 

[Parabalus]

Woedica is being oppressed by the other gods, his idealism obliges him to help her.

Woedica was the queen of the gods before she was overthrown. Without her at that spot, there was no one other god to lord over others, making rebillion among the gods pointless.

Enter Skaen.

But he's literally aiding Woedica's rebellion against the New God Order.

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

Kohopa and Tangaloa are performing a Rymrgand on each other. Another one of the gods' conspiracies

Elf prison wife was right anon! It is true anon! It is!

 

[Lambach]

But he's literally aiding Woedica's rebellion against the New God Order.

He's aiding her because she's rebelling, not because she's oppressed. Because his purpose isn't liberation, his only purpose is simply endless rebellion.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

But he's literally aiding Woedica's rebellion against the New God Order.

He's aiding her because she's rebelling, not because she's oppressed. Because his purpose isn't liberation, his only purpose is simply endless rebellion.

So he's an edgy libtard

 

[NJClaw]

But he's literally aiding Woedica's rebellion against the New God Order.

He's aiding her because she's rebelling, not because she's oppressed. Because his purpose isn't liberation, his only purpose is simply endless rebellion.

So he's an edgy libtard

He makes his followers cut off their own dicks, what more proof do you need?

 

[Delterius]

but only so that they themselves can become the new masters

I don't think Nano or Lacrymas are right to say that Skaen's ultimate motivation is liberation. That would require purpose, or an ideology to that effect. And there's nothing in the games that point to that direction. But there's nothing in either Pillars games that backs what you say either. Skaen doesn't put a single peasant in a position of power. And of course he doesn't: Skaen's cultists are either sacrificed or so broken that they couldn't serve any other purpose than violence.

Skaen is the Quiet Slave or the Schemer. He is what happens when relations of power reach an absurdist breaking point. He is rage. He is the every day fear of the powerful, not that the downtrodden will rise in a revolution (because that requires organization and indoctrination), but rather that they'll go on a shooting spree on their way out. Skaen does thrive on abuse. He cannot exist without it. But he is not the one who re-creates the structures of power. He cannot be. Because ultimately Skaen is not the one that breaks them down. He is impotent to do so because he is the God of impotent serfs and undue servility. Woedica is the one who swoops in and creates new masters, that is, if the old masters are even that disenfranchised after all.

Woedica and Skaen form an unit not out of hipocrisy or anything, they are symbiotic and outrightly so: The occasional violent rebellion reinforces hierarchy because it serves as a reminder of the need for repression, which is just the cycle of abuse that impotent, directionless rage needs to thrive again. In American terms Skaen is not a patron god of Malcolm Xs or MLKs or Louvertures. He patronizes the average slave, perhaps even the 'uncle toms', the ones who ordinarily just want to survive the best they can, but who are driven mad with rage because their Master is pushing relations too far. What Skaen wants is for the house slave to slice their master's throat. It doesn't matter what happens next, or even how they got to that position. Those are the purview of Woedica. And while the reason Woedica enables abuse is because she believes in it. But she can only enable it because of Skaen.

If anything the closest analogue to a 'christian' liberator is what Eothas tried to be. He lead an actual peasant's revolution, overthrew the colonial masters, and estabilished a new order from it. That is the sort of purpose Skaen lacks.

 

[Lacrymas]

Skaen helps Woedica because she thinks she's oppressed. Endless rebellion is basically survival of the fittest and that's Galawain's shtick. None of the gods are actually "good", that's one of the points in this franchise. However, Skaen at least has some actual philosophical and practical use that is very reminiscent of Christianity and worthy of a god. Ultimately, though, Eora's gods serve the status quo and I don't think real (social) change is possible while they exist.

 

[Parabalus]

But he's literally aiding Woedica's rebellion against the New God Order.

He's aiding her because she's rebelling, not because she's oppressed. Because his purpose isn't liberation, his only purpose is simply endless rebellion.

How can you rebel without any perceived oppression?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You'd have to be retarded to think Skaen had anything to do with the Christian God. Eothas is obviously the one based on him, ffs saint waidwen's war is obviously mirroring the Taiping rebellion.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's very amusing that I keep linking to that thread where we discuss why Skaen has clear Christian aspects yet nobody reads it and makes the same arguments over and over.

 

[Delterius]

It's an ideology where the weak overcome their lot by the only means they have, Skaen is on the side of the beaten, humiliated and the oppressed, strengthening them and pulling them up. It's a very Christian worldview and very interesting.

Lacrymas can you point me an instance of Skaen pulling people up?

 

[Lacrymas]

It's an ideology where the weak overcome their lot by the only means they have, Skaen is on the side of the beaten, humiliated and the oppressed, strengthening them and pulling them up. It's a very Christian worldview and very interesting.

Lacrymas can you point me an instance of Skaen pulling people up?

Can you point me an instance of the Christian God doing that? It's about philosophy and optics, not what the god can actively do for you. At least Skaen gives people magical powers and gory rituals with which to massacre oppressors.

 

[AwesomeButton]

but only so that they themselves can become the new masters

I don't think Nano or Lacrymas are right to say that Skaen's ultimate motivation is liberation. That would require purpose, or an ideology to that effect. And there's nothing in the games that point to that direction. But there's nothing in either Pillars games that backs what you say either. Skaen doesn't put a single peasant in a position of power. And of course he doesn't: Skaen's cultists are either sacrificed or so broken that they couldn't serve any other purpose than violence.

Skaen is the Quiet Slave or the Schemer. He is what happens when relations of power reach an absurdist breaking point. He is rage. He is the every day fear of the powerful, not that the downtrodden will rise in a revolution (because that requires organization and indoctrination), but rather that they'll go on a shooting spree on their way out. Skaen does thrive on abuse. He cannot exist without it. But he is not the one who re-creates the structures of power. He cannot be. Because ultimately Skaen is not the one that breaks them down. He is impotent to do so because he is the God of impotent serfs and undue servility. Woedica is the one who swoops in and creates new masters, that is, if the old masters are even that disenfranchised after all.

Woedica and Skaen form an unit not out of hipocrisy or anything, they are symbiotic and outrightly so: The occasional violent rebellion reinforces hierarchy because it serves as a reminder of the need for repression, which is just the cycle of abuse that impotent, directionless rage needs to thrive again. In American terms Skaen is not a patron god of Malcolm Xs or MLKs or Louvertures. He patronizes the average slave, perhaps even the 'uncle toms', the ones who ordinarily just want to survive the best they can, but who are driven mad with rage because their Master is pushing relations too far. What Skaen wants is for the house slave to slice their master's throat. It doesn't matter what happens next, or even how they got to that position. Those are the purview of Woedica. And the reason Woedica enables abuse because she believes in it. But she can only enable it because of Skaen.

If anything the closest analogue to a 'christian' liberator is what Eothas tried to be. He lead an actual peasant's revolution, overthrew the colonial masters, and estabilished a new order from it. That is the sort of purpose Skaen lacks.

You'd think the Roparu in the archipelago would be very interested in Skan, or he in them. Something isn't really thought out well about this god.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's very amusing that I keep linking to that thread where we discuss why Skaen has clear Christian aspects yet nobody reads it and makes the same arguments over and over.

And you're being called retarded. "if we completely ignore skaen's motives and the way he tells his followers to go about accomplishing their goals, they're sorta similar if you squint"

Skaen is not Ilmater.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's an ideology where the weak overcome their lot by the only means they have, Skaen is on the side of the beaten, humiliated and the oppressed, strengthening them and pulling them up. It's a very Christian worldview and very interesting.

Lacrymas can you point me an instance of Skaen pulling people up?

Can you point me an instance of the Christian God doing that? It's about philosophy and optics, not what the god can actively do for you. At least Skaen gives people magical powers and gory rituals with which to massacre oppressors.

Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's an ideology where the weak overcome their lot by the only means they have, Skaen is on the side of the beaten, humiliated and the oppressed, strengthening them and pulling them up. It's a very Christian worldview and very interesting.

Lacrymas can you point me an instance of Skaen pulling people up?

Can you point me an instance of the Christian God doing that? It's about philosophy and optics, not what the god can actively do for you. At least Skaen gives people magical powers and gory rituals with which to massacre oppressors.

Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

That's what I mean, it's all hypothetical and on paper. In theory, Skaen helps the oppressed too. And who is to say he doesn't? Perhaps the Effigy/Skaen has helped people out of slavery. That was certainly my character's backstory.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's an ideology where the weak overcome their lot by the only means they have, Skaen is on the side of the beaten, humiliated and the oppressed, strengthening them and pulling them up. It's a very Christian worldview and very interesting.

Lacrymas can you point me an instance of Skaen pulling people up?

Can you point me an instance of the Christian God doing that? It's about philosophy and optics, not what the god can actively do for you. At least Skaen gives people magical powers and gory rituals with which to massacre oppressors.

Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

That's what I mean, it's all hypothetical and on paper. In theory, Skaen helps the oppressed too. And who is to say he doesn't? Perhaps the Effigy has helped people out of slavery.

That's like saying someone who helps free slaves is totally like someone who gives slaves a gun and tells them to go on a massacre.

 

[Lacrymas]

Again, we talked about this in that thread, go check it (the whole thing) out.

 

[Nano]

He makes his followers cut off their own dicks, what more proof do you need?

Is that why Lacrymas is a fan of him?

 

[Lacrymas]

I am a fan of his because he's the only god in this world that has worthy goals or at least pretends to have worthy goals appropriate for a god. I think Christianity became the force it has and had the allure it did to people 2000 years ago because of the same things Skaen promises. Like Kyl von Kyll said in that thread, however, Saint Paul was more cunning than Skaen will ever be.

 

[Delterius]

You'd think the Roparu in the archipelago would be very interested in Skan, or he in them. Something isn't really thought out well about this god.

The Roparu in Neketaka and the ones taken as slaves by the Crockspur might but I think it would take a great deal of time for the cult of Skaen to grow.

Remember, the Huana caste is originally tribal and it works relatively well in a rural setting. There are so few people in a village that everyone knows each other and there's room for the powerful to unironically act with everyone's consensus, and for resources to be distributed according to certain notions of noblesse oblige. The Matatu Warrior who protects the village gets the first pick of the foodstuffs, true, but his neighbors may be an old Roparu invalid who needs the tribe or a young Roparu woman who's pregnant. The Mataru man will absolutely not share a room with them, but it would be too cruel for either of them to starve in a tribal setting. People will only starve if there truly isn't enough food to go around. A large urban community however is alienating. Not only does each caste lives in their own quarter, but the tribal bonds have been broken. Neketaka is a city of refugees, escapees from enslaved tribes who are not truly Kahanga or members of any other tribe in particular. So of course the Roparu are fed garbage. Over time they'd likely start worshipping Skaen really hard, probably as an import from cultures where the Cult of Skaen already thrives.

I do agree however. Maybe there should have been an epilogue for an Effigy incident in Neketaka whenever the player fails to improve the situation in the Gullet.

It's an ideology where the weak overcome their lot by the only means they have, Skaen is on the side of the beaten, humiliated and the oppressed, strengthening them and pulling them up. It's a very Christian worldview and very interesting.

Lacrymas can you point me an instance of Skaen pulling people up?

Can you point me an instance of the Christian God doing that?

Well, on top of my head there was a peasant's revolution in Brazil called the Cabanagem. It happened in the 1830s. Post independence Brazil was a melting pot of undue privileges that originated in colonial times. The rise of a centralized government in the former colony which centralized revenues only served to exarcebate people's anger. When the political élites of the province of Grão Pará (the Amazon rainforest, pretty much) called upon the peasants to rise up against the central government they swiftly lost control of the movement. The privileged simply disliked their slice of the pie, the peasants were starving and could only see the portuguese born people who still owned all the commerce and decided to take up arms on their own. The peasants ultimately failed and a hundred thousand of them were massacred. But one component of the revolution that is as inherent as its republican character was the religious framing of the struggle that the peasants opted to make. Their great retreat from the provincial capital, I believe, was likened to the story of Moses. Their struggle against the merchant classes was portrayed as against freemasons. Everything took a religious context drew upon that framework.

Skaen completely lacks any liberating or ideological framework.

In theory, Skaen helps the oppressed too. And who is to say he doesn't? Perhaps the Effigy/Skaen has helped people out of slavery.

That is possible but would have been incidental. There is no story of Skaen's divine favour liberating a people out of slavery and keeping them liberated. Much less intending them to be freed in the first place. But there's a rather big one for Eothas, which is the liberation of Readceras.

 

[Nano]

I am a fan of his because he's the only god in this world that has worthy goals or at least pretends to have worthy goals appropriate for a god.

Galawain ftw.

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

Galawain ftw.

Give me cute Berath mommy form mommy wife!

 

[NJClaw]

I am a fan of his because he's the only god in this world that has worthy goals or at least pretends to have worthy goals appropriate for a god.

Jesus Christ, Eothas literally challenges the entire pantheon to empower kiths and give them a chance to shape their destiny against the gods' will and you say Skaen is the only god with a worthy goal?

Abydon sacrifices himself to protect the remnants of an old civilization and is willing to let kiths overthrow the gods in the name of scientific progress.

You're discarding them only because they have nothing to do with cutting off dicks. Admit it.