Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sensuki]

Escape used to have a larger range, but I think it's bugged because you can't escape over other units sometimes (you crash into them) and you cant escape over the edge of the navmesh, you crash into it.

And yeah you can absolutely tell when asked questions like that he talks theoretics, not what is actually practical in the game.

 

[Hormalakh]

It could also be practical - but only for him because he knows every single thing about the game. For most players, they have to build that level of understanding. And then they need to know how to execute it.

Though still I'm not sure how much time he actually gets with the game to test out his theories.

 

[Metal Hurlant]

Prime Junta asks: http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/107416264941/hi-josh-ive-been-playing-a-lot-of-bb392-and

Hi, Josh -- I've been playing a lot of BB392 and IWD back to back. The beta's coming along great and I'm having a lot of fun with it. However, in IWD, a standard tactic is to rush to an enemy caster with a fighter, gank him, then rush out before you get clobbered. I can't think of a way to do this in P:E. Rogue's Escape and barb's Wild Sprint are 1/encounter, each of which is half the solution. Could we have talents/abilities/spells which support this tactic?

There are a few 1/encounters that I’ve been shifting to 2/encounter. Wild Sprint could be one of them, but barbarians aren’t designed to escape the fray as much as define where the fray is. Rogues need to watch for an opening (or make their own opening using Stealth before combat starts) and use Escape, Shadowing Beyond, or Coordinated Positioning to get out of trouble. If the rogue wants to be at the vanguard and dart behind the first wave of enemies, they need someone to provide coverage for them. Fighters are ideal for providing interference (with Defender, among other reasons), but paladins, chanters, monks, and barbarians can all handle it just fine.

Monks are the most mobility-oriented melee characters. Long Stride makes them inherently faster and they have a variety of CC abilities that can help them clear a path or briefly disable enemies. Rooting Pain (now available at lower levels) is ideal for providing them with an escape window, and Force of Anguish works well, too.

If you want support abilities to help people get in and get out, there are a couple of options. A paladin’s Zealous Charge provides a movement boost and a hefty bonus to defend against Disengagement, but characters need to be close to the paladin to take advantage of it. The chanter phrase “The Fox from the Farmer…” has a much larger area of effect, but its bonuses aren’t as great. Talent-wise, both Fast Runner and Graceful Retreat can be very useful if your intention is to rush in and dart out. Potions of Fleet Feet are great, but consumable, and yes, since a lot of people wonder, there are Boots of Speed.

I will look at some of the priest and druid spells. I’m sure there are a couple of support spells that could have a movement and Disengagement Defense bonus added.

Whenever I see a post like this from Josh, it comes across as some marketing corporate spiel to justify the decisions in the game. All fluff and no substance. One of the answers is Boots of Speed? Really?

 

[roshan]

There are a few 1/encounters that I’ve been shifting to 2/encounter. Wild Sprint could be one of them, but barbarians aren’t designed to escape the fray as much as define where the fray is. Rogues need to watch for an opening (or make their own opening using Stealth before combat starts) and use Escape, Shadowing Beyond, or Coordinated Positioning to get out of trouble. If the rogue wants to be at the vanguard and dart behind the first wave of enemies, they need someone to provide coverage for them. Fighters are ideal for providing interference (with Defender, among other reasons), but paladins, chanters, monks, and barbarians can all handle it just fine.

Monks are the most mobility-oriented melee characters. Long Stride makes them inherently faster and they have a variety of CC abilities that can help them clear a path or briefly disable enemies. Rooting Pain (now available at lower levels) is ideal for providing them with an escape window, and Force of Anguish works well, too.

If you want support abilities to help people get in and get out, there are a couple of options. A paladin’s Zealous Charge provides a movement boost and a hefty bonus to defend against Disengagement, but characters need to be close to the paladin to take advantage of it. The chanter phrase “The Fox from the Farmer…” has a much larger area of effect, but its bonuses aren’t as great. Talent-wise, both Fast Runner and Graceful Retreat can be very useful if your intention is to rush in and dart out. Potions of Fleet Feet are great, but consumable, and yes, since a lot of people wonder, there are Boots of Speed.

I will look at some of the priest and druid spells. I’m sure there are a couple of support spells that could have a movement and Disengagement Defense bonus added.

Am I correct in wondering what any of this stuff has to do with a real time party based isometric RPG? Things like "Escape", "Coordinated Positioning", "Long Stride", "Rooting Pain, "Zealous Charge" = none of this stuff has anything to do with IE style gameplay. I can see this stuff working in an isometric hack and slash (NOX, Blade and Sword, Diablo 2 had similar abilities) and I can also see it working in a turn based game. But I really don't see how the IE games could have used any of these abilities.

It really seems that Sawyer is too much in his own head and in love with all his silly high concepts and has very little practical "grip" on what sort of game needs to be made or a "feel" for good gameplay, or even the sense to realize what actually works and what doesn't.

EDIT: I see from other posts that others also recognize that all these things are only nice in theory but in actual gameplay completely useless and irrelevant.....

 

[roshan]

The way he describes the classes such as "barbarians define where the fray is" and "rogues watch for an opening" makes it seem that he is actually LARPing while in combat in an RPG (in much the same way that someone playing empty games like Skyrim will "invent" most of the RPG elements in their head, Sawyer invents fantasies about the combat). While what is needed are practical abilities suitable for an RTWP isometric party based game he is instead designing pointless crap to support his idealistic LARPing of different classes.

 

[Infinitron]

OMG the names are unfamiliar! I'm tempted to look up a bunch of obscure AD&D spells with fanciful-sounding names and trick you into thinking they're PoE abilities, but too lazy

One thing, though:

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Long_Stride

Long Stride

Race Aumaua(island)
Activation passive
Effect movement speed * 1.05
Island Aumaua move 5% faster in combat.

http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Barbarian

Advantages

• They move at 2 points faster than the usual character.

 

[roshan]

OMG the names are unfamiliar! I'm tempted to look up a bunch of obscure AD&D spells with fanciful-sounding names and trick you into thinking they're PoE abilities, but too lazy

One thing, though:

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Long_Stride



http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Barbarian

This one makes sense at least. I will admit when I am wrong. I had assumed most of these abilities were active abilities with for example animations being played out.

 

[Sensuki]

The ones mentioned in the first paragraph are active abilities.

 

[Sensuki]

http://rien-ici.com/iemod/

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69964-the-pe-ie-mod-thread-draggable-ui-now-available/ :D

 

[Zed]

haven't they implemented the "solid" UI yet?

 

[ZagorTeNej]

mage outside friendly arms, one of the hardest encounters in baldur's gate

Nimbul can also be pretty dangerous for a new player who cleared the mines early.

Even so, you'll still turn him into a pincushion with a few archers. Part of what can make that particular encounter hard is that you haven't got shit on you at that point. And generally level 1 in AD&D exists in its own universe of difficulty apart from the others.

Of course archers were OP in BG1 in general, this is pretty well known

OP sure, but not to the degree everyone is claiming, magic and melee aren't lagging behind that much.

Mirror image serves reasonably well to protect enemy mages from your archers (in vanilla BG you have to hit every illusion before you can damage the mage) and given that you can equip your tank in such a way that he'll only take damage from archers on a critical hit, mages become priority targets.

 

[Copper]

Why is the grass so dark/high contrast?

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

haven't they implemented the "solid" UI yet?

No, and that's cause of concern, for me anyway. There's certainly a chance that the solid UI won't look well with UI elements moved out of their original position and then the whole thing would've been for nothing.

 

[Sensuki]

Why is the grass so dark/high contrast?

Maybe you should ask that question to Josh Sawyer?

He can't determine different shades of green right? So he probably can't see the issue with it

The Solid UI is a concern, I might add a post about it in the thread.

 

[Infinitron]

The game has a Lead Environment Artist: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Hector_Espinoza

Let's no go too far with the auteur theory, hmm?

 

[Sensuki]

That wasn't a dig, but just a statement that if Josh could actually see the differences as good as you or I can, his general higher attention to detail might have noticed it.

The game also has an art director.

This is one issue I will probably be bringing up in my Codex Preview (which I'm probably going to change the focus of a bit when I do it), in that many of the art decisions negatively impact the gameplay, even though they 'look good' abstract from the gameplay.

 

[Athelas]

I think the tall grass was supposed to be animated, hence why it's not 'flat' and obscures the characters' feet and why it stands out from the 'normal' grass. And it's darker presumably because it's older and overgrown.

 

[polo]

Stupid josh is fucking up the enviorments!

 

[agris]

http://rien-ici.com/iemod/

I hadn't seen that before, thanks for the link. Does it also disable those horrible interaction icons over doors that transition scenes and loot containers?

 

[Grotesque]

Does it also disable those horrible interaction icons over doors that transition scenes and loot containers?

No because it will remove the feel of a browser game and that is sacred. Nobody wants to toy with that!

 

[Athelas]

But how would people know where to go without those icons?

 

[agris]

By mousing over it, like in the IE games...

 

[Athelas]

By mousing over it, like in the IE games...

I was being sarcastic.

Though retard-proofing it may actually be the reason.

 

[Sensuki]

FuTuR tablet support

 

[Weirdstuffinspace]

Retard proofing is more evidence this game isn't made for the backers 1st and foremost.