Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Anthony Davis]

I don't remember SC1 clipping other than air units - what units was it?

I will play the game for fun when it comes out, right now I have work to do I've still got to check all of my bugs from the last patch and update my report list, and I've got lots more (mostly minor) bugs/issues to report for this patch. No Sleep for the Watcher I guess!

And if clipping remains, I will look into the mover code to try and mod it out I guess, depending on how annoying it is.

Same thing as in SC2, resource harvesting.

Those might have been only ones - but the pathfinding in SC1 is still purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrttttttttttyyyy bad. Especially with their fake elevation changes and ramps and stairs.

Still a fun game of course. Brood War is the best expansion ever.

 

[ushas]

My pathfinding report explains how to do it better, the condition is that you have to issue a moving unit (isMoving = true) another movement command that vectors across another unit's selection circle when you're right up against them, I believe that's what makes it qualify for noclip, then you just cancel their move action when they're ontop of each other.

I'm able to do that in 488. It's still pretty tricky though. I think my way is slower, but maybe more "reliable". Your way, I think especially with practice, is way faster.

They still don't seem to stack quite as tight as they are in your video. For example, I can't get their circles to overlay each other - at best it's a 50% intersection with two circles. Still bad of course.

Regardless, I hope this is fixed.

If the combat and out of combat states still work differently, maybe you would like to also look into situations with the sudden start of combat when pathfinding in tricky areas? (where the circle overlapping is also common at least in BBv480)

Now I'm not completely sure what happened, but I think I came across a possible related situation when crossing river in Dyrford crossing:

The melee character was pathing between two ranged units and the circles were overlapping at the time when the game switched into the combat state. When issuing an attack, the melee character wasn't able to get out, as normally would be if being out of combat. The ranged unit had to be moved manually to release him. I'm not knowledgeable enough to distinguish whether this would happen if both states behave the same way (in matter of the pathfinding and collisions)...

Similar situation (the original one wasn't documented):

Spoiler

The BB priest with a great sword with the order to attack does nothing.

Well, that is probably solved with the pathfinding patch too, so just pointing out for to be sure.

 

[Osvir]

@thread: Solo is possible in Backer Beta with some persistance and with a deceptive/clever playstyle btw
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70945-480-how-on-earth-are-we-supposed-to-solo-this/?p=1582676

 

[Sensuki]

My pathfinding report explains how to do it better, the condition is that you have to issue a moving unit (isMoving = true) another movement command that vectors across another unit's selection circle when you're right up against them, I believe that's what makes it qualify for noclip, then you just cancel their move action when they're ontop of each other.

I'm able to do that in 488. It's still pretty tricky though. I think my way is slower, but maybe more "reliable". Your way, I think especially with practice, is way faster.

They still don't seem to stack quite as tight as they are in your video. For example, I can't get their circles to overlay each other - at best it's a 50% intersection with two circles. Still bad of course.

Regardless, I hope this is fixed.

If the combat and out of combat states still work differently, maybe you would like to also look into situations with the sudden start of combat when pathfinding in tricky areas? (where the circle overlapping is also common at least in BBv480)

Now I'm not completely sure what happened, but I think I came across a possible related situation when crossing river in Dyrford crossing:

The melee character was pathing between two ranged units and the circles were overlapping at the time when the game switched into the combat state. When issuing an attack, the melee character wasn't able to get out, as normally would be if being out of combat. The ranged unit had to be moved manually to release him. I'm not knowledgeable enough to distinguish whether this would happen if both states behave the same way (in matter of the pathfinding and collisions)...

Similar situation (the original one wasn't documented):

Spoiler

The BB priest with a great sword with the order to attack does nothing.

Well, that is probably solved with the pathfinding patch too, so just pointing out for to be sure.

Good catch man, I'll look into that.

 

[ushas]

I think in BBv480 one can also easily accidently position party members over each other when rotating formation around corners or in tight areas, or so...
Does it now worth the effort to test it with BB? You two got me confused with the pathfinding updates

 

[Sensuki]

Bobby Null on 2D

Hopefully the game is successful and when the sequel is made, you are allowed a bigger budget for 2D artists

That's the goal. I've already spoke to many of the principal folks around here. I'd love to get more 2D artists on the team full time. If the game does well it is almost assuredly be a high priority.

 

[Ellef]

So I got around to make a proper tank that I saw on the OE forum. 2 Might, 3 dex and maxed everything else and holy shit it does make everything much easier over the BB fighter. This is obviously pretty apparent to most of the BB'ers but I haven't looked into any character build stuff at all.

So the above tank and 5 naked guys slinging bullets and spells is the way to go then?

I've tried it on the Medreth and Inn battles so far and nobody else was really targeted, and a simple halt plus focus fire solved that.

 

[Blackguard]

Bobby Null on 2D

Hopefully the game is successful and when the sequel is made, you are allowed a bigger budget for 2D artists

That's the goal. I've already spoke to many of the principal folks around here. I'd love to get more 2D artists on the team full time. If the game does well it is almost assuredly be a high priority.

What counts as doing well though? I don't think niche products like this sell more much more than 500k+, and even that is only reached by the most successful launches. DOS had sold over 500k three months after its launch and that game topped Steam charts for weeks.

 

[Jezal_k23]

Yeah, define successful. Do we have any idea how much Obsidian hopes it to sell? What is their best case scenario?

 

[leferd]

I want to say something.

I have been playing this game quite a bit. Notice I said playing, not searching for bugs. ;-P

I started over with 488, I'm past the Gilded Vale heading for the Stronghold.

It's FUN!

The pathfinding is great! I haven't noticed anything weird about it at all. Combat, while I prefer turn based, it fun and CHALLENGING! Especially on Hard. It's actually a little brutal for me on hard.

I'm meeting cool NPCs, exploring beautiful maps, having cool dialogues, reading cool item descriptions, using my abilities. It's a new world, though it does have some familiar touchstones (like elves and dwarves), and it's really, really well written.

It's better than I could have hoped for when I backed it for 250$ while NOT an Obsidian employee.

I didn't even want to play the game because I didn't want to spoil anything for myself. I played it over Christmas break as a favor for Adam and I found a TON of issues. All of those issues have now been fixed, and more!

This makes me very very hopeful.

 

[Grotesque]

Yeah, define successful. Do we have any idea how much Obsidian hopes it to sell? What is their best case scenario?

The degree of how successful PoE will be depends also on how many bucks of their own Obsidian poured also into this game.
Unfortunately, even though PoE will be superior in every aspect than Divinity: Original Sin, will not sell as much.

 

[Apexeon]

Yeah, define successful. Do we have any idea how much Obsidian hopes it to sell? What is their best case scenario?

A indie like me with 20000 sales it is a roaring success.
A triple AAA dev (meaning 3 Assholes instead of one) sells 2 million they get the sack and the team joins me working at the 7/11 graveyard shift.

 

[coffeetable]

Yeah, define successful. Do we have any idea how much Obsidian hopes it to sell? What is their best case scenario?

obsidian as a company probably eats about ~million a month. the game's priced at $45. steam and gog both take a 30% cut. so one months' operation is equivalent to ~30,000 sales

on the back of those figures, selling 70k like broken age would be a failure. selling 500k like DOS would be a great success. i'd guess obsidian's expectations are somewhere between the two

 

[J_C]

When you tell your NPC-2 to go to the other side of your NPC-1, he'll often go right through NPC-1 or something like that, and at that precise moment you tell him to stop (press cancel). Repeat with other characters.

When you tell your NPC-2 to go to the other side of your NPC-1, he'll often go right through NPC-1 or something like that, and at that precise moment you tell him to stop (press cancel). Repeat with other characters.

Thanks, that works, kind of, but it took me a few tries to get it. If you click to move, like Bester said on the other side of an NPC that you are right next to, ONCE and cancel, you can get their circles to partially (barely) overlap, but to get them standing on each other, you have to click/cancel in rapid succession, several times, per character - but it does work. I can stack the party.

, the condition is that you have to issue a moving unit (isMoving = true) another movement command that vectors across another unit's selection circle when you're right up against them, I believe that's what makes it qualify for noclip, then you just cancel their move action when they're ontop of each other.

Jebus, so this is not even that simple to pull it off, and probably will never happen at a normal playthrough unless you intentionally look for it. This is almost a not-a-problem.

You stand next to the person you want to stack on.
Click on the other side of them, cancel immediately, and that sometimes cause them to take a half step.
If you do it right, their selection circles will now partially overlap, like maybe 10%.
If you keep repeating it, they will inch closer and closer. Takes maybe 5 or 6 clicks per person you are stacking.

At least that's what I observed when I tried to repro it.

If you know an easier way to do it, please tell me.

Let's just focus on bugs which don't need the player standing on one of its legs, shouting the russian anthem, closing one of its eyes and clicking n+1-4/2times. Because those actually pose a problem, unlike this clickfest which is needed to reproduce this overlapping circles stuff.

 

[Athelas]

The important thing is that it will make reviewers less likely to dock the game's score for pathfinding issues.

 

[coffeetable]

incidentally,

one developer-year: $150k*/5,000 sales
one pillars of eternity: $6m**/200,000 sales

*going by one of the spreadsheets double fine released during their development. lotta overhead.
**going by the fact it was originally spring 2014 @ $3.5m, and here we are a year later with 15-20 devs working full-time on it

 

[Athelas]

The estimated release date was actually 'winter 2014'. That would be a delay of 3-5 months.

 

[J_C]

I will play the game for fun when it comes out, right now I have work to do

Will you be able to do that? Seriously. I might be totally wrong here, since I don't know how your brain works :D but you are so fixated on finding bugs and exploits (and we can honestly be greatful to you for your work), that I fear that when the game comes out, you will only see bugs and exploits which were not fixed. Don't you fear that you won't be able to enjoy the game?

Regarding the clipping issue, isn't it possible to switch it off? You know, typing noclip in the command line like in the good old days?

 

[Frusciante]

Combat seems a actually fun now . I find it very challening though... On medium my (lvl 4) party gets destroyed by the Ogre each time. Also got destroyed by a big group of cultists very easily.

Game will be good. Biggest incline in the last ten years.

 

[Sensuki]

Regarding the clipping issue, isn't it possible to switch it off? You know, typing noclip in the command line like in the good old days?

Bester said it should be easy to mod out, as they have a distinction between combat and non-combat pathfinding, and yes I will be able to enjoy the game. I will still notice issues, and I will note them down and report them but I won't be actively looking for them on my first playthrough.

 

[Grotesque]

Crooked Bee, DarkUnderlord, Infinitron - where is the rpg codex interview with the PoE team we just heard about at the company meeting? I want to read it!

I'm working on it Anthony! I only have two thumbs to work with... Also, you get mentioned in the interview......

just release it already, for fuck's sake!

 

[Blackguard]

Crooked Bee, DarkUnderlord, Infinitron - where is the rpg codex interview with the PoE team we just heard about at the company meeting? I want to read it!

I'm working on it Anthony! I only have two thumbs to work with... Also, you get mentioned in the interview......

just release it already, for fuck's sake!

How fucking long can editing an interview take.

 

[Roguey]

I'm not upset loot can be save scummed, I'm upset it isn't hand placed. Why do developers hate hand placed loot? It is so much better than getting a random assortment of magic/useless items in each chest.

Unique items are handplaced, junk/less-important loot is randomized.

 

[J_C]

I'm not upset loot can be save scummed, I'm upset it isn't hand placed. Why do developers hate hand placed loot? It is so much better than getting a random assortment of magic/useless items in each chest.

Unique items are handplaced, junk/less-important loot is randomized.

Getting hand placed junk or getting randomized junk. Which is better and why? Discuss!

 

[J_C]

Crooked Bee, DarkUnderlord, Infinitron - where is the rpg codex interview with the PoE team we just heard about at the company meeting? I want to read it!

I only have two thumbs to work with...

I'm sorry but this cracked me up. :D Keep up the spirit mindx2!