Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sensuki]

Infinitron Where is mindx2's report !!!

 

[J_C]

I really think reaching out to AngryJoe early was fairly brilliant since alot of his viewers will dive right in when they see the real time play and crisp visuals. .

That could be a double edge sword. He even gave Evolve 5/10 when everybody was praising it.
He never played an infinity engine game if I am not mistaken so I hope he'll not be that kind of reviewer that Sven Vincke loathes.


this interview with Paradox is too much fun

Is there some stuff regarding Obsidian and PoE? I'm not interested in the whole interview.

 

[Infinitron]

Infinitron Where is mindx2's report !!!

Soon(tm).

 

[Duraframe300]

Yo! We gonna get goodies tonigh' or what?

Anthony Davis

On a scale from 1-10. How sweet is this game?

 

[Roguey]

The only awkward feeling persons at PoE closing party were Josh and Tim Cain that was dragged there when he was programming (but he loosened up pretty quickly).
The others genuinely felt good and alcohol played a big role. Maybe that's why the recording is nowhere to be seen

There were more awkward moments than that. Like Feargus dragging his daughter in front of the camera, to a bunch of disgusting "loli" comments from the chatters. Or Feargus's son innocently asking Alvin if he robbed banks because well, that's how Orange County is, he can't choose the environment in which he is raised. Or that guy who tried to do the Gangnam Style dance before Chris rightfully told him to cut it out. I'm sure more will come if I continue to think about it, but I don't want to.

By the same token it's amazing how people who share Josh's moral outrage at degenerate gameplay present in IE games and champion his quest to fix them don't criticize him when he adds incentive for degenerate gameplay that wasn't present in IE games (well aside from IWD).

If others are pointing it out, my voice isn't necessary.

I'll complain about where Josh fell short after I've played it.

 

[Semper]

There were more awkward moments than that.

lets start with watching that stream.

 

[Sensuki]

 

[Deleted member 7219]

There were more awkward moments than that. Like Feargus dragging his daughter in front of the camera, to a bunch of disgusting "loli" comments from the chatters. Or Feargus's son innocently asking Alvin if he robbed banks because well, that's how Orange County is, he can't choose the environment in which he is raised. Or that guy who tried to do the Gangnam Style dance before Chris rightfully told him to cut it out. I'm sure more will come if I continue to think about it, but I don't want to.



If others are pointing it out, my voice isn't necessary.

I'll complain about where Josh fell short after I've played it.

I completely forgot about Feargus' kids. Damn you Roguey.

 

[polo]

Hey sensuki, how do you think the class balancing is going atm? Is there an OP class, or any shitty one? Leaving aside the might and attributes in general dilemma.

 

[Anthony Davis]

Yo! We gonna get goodies tonigh' or what?

Anthony Davis

On a scale from 1-10. How sweet is this game?

I'm confused.

 

[polo]

Yo! We gonna get goodies tonigh' or what?

Anthony Davis

On a scale from 1-10. How sweet is this game?

I'm confused.

Let me put it easy for you.
On a scale from 1-50 how many shades did Grey had?

Spoiler

 

[J_C]

Oh man, that custom texture with the statues look friggin awesome. I'm not a big fan of the U shaped version of Bester's mod (find it a little barebones), but the one you showed is great work. Reminds me a little to IWD2's UI, which also had different textures, statues, mozaik windows on the UI.

 

[Seari]

Spoiler

What happened to the custom buttons? Those looked nice :d

Not to be picky, but the combat log looks a tiny bit out of place, can it be replaced as well?

 

[J_C]

I noticed several posts on the Obs forums, in which developers say that they had to recompress images, textures to reduce memory usage. Is this done because Unity is a shitty resource hog engine, and they have to do this to reduce systems requirements and load times? If it is, wouldn't it make more sense to use another engine if they do a sequel? I hope they consider it in the future.

 

[Duraframe300]

Yo! We gonna get goodies tonigh' or what?

Anthony Davis

On a scale from 1-10. How sweet is this game?

I'm confused.

Radical

 

[Anthony Davis]

I noticed several posts on the Obs forums, in which developers say that they had to recompress images, textures to reduce memory usage. Is this done because Unity is a shitty resource hog engine, and they have to do this to reduce systems requirements and load times? If it is, wouldn't it make more sense to use another engine if they do a sequel? I hope they consider it in the future.

As I understand, it has to do with the way Unity loads the resource pak files. Apparently it is less than ideal for an RPG like PoE because many resources can be loaded at pretty much ANY time, due to spells, items, summons, etc.

Again, it's not really a bug or an issue with Unity per se, it's just that their resource handling is not optimized for something as dynamic as an RPG. I would imagine it would have troubles with any sort of game with so much dynamic content that can be loaded. Not content in the sense of a story, but content from a game engine point of view, where almost anything ca be loaded at anytime.*

Also, for those backseat drivers, this is an issue that didn't even come up till we had gigs of content into the game.

I do believe that Dan Spitzley and Matt Boynton fixed and optimized quite a bit of it though - at least I heard.



* = I'm not on the team. I am recounting the issue as I understand it, which might be wrong.

 

[J_C]

I noticed several posts on the Obs forums, in which developers say that they had to recompress images, textures to reduce memory usage. Is this done because Unity is a shitty resource hog engine, and they have to do this to reduce systems requirements and load times? If it is, wouldn't it make more sense to use another engine if they do a sequel? I hope they consider it in the future.

As I understand, it has to do with the way Unity loads the resource pak files. Apparently it is less than ideal for an RPG like PoE because many resources can be loaded at pretty much ANY time, due to spells, items, summons, etc.

Again, it's not really a bug or an issue with Unity per se, it's just that their resource handling is not optimized for something as dynamic as an RPG. I would imagine it would have troubles with any sort of game with so much dynamic content that can be loaded. Not content in the sense of a story, but content from a game engine point of view, where almost anything ca be loaded at anytime.*

Also, for those backseat drivers, this is an issue that didn't even come up till we had gigs of content into the game.

I do believe that Dan Spitzley and Matt Boynton fixed and optimized quite a bit of it though - at least I heard.



* = I'm not on the team. I am recounting the issue as I understand it, which might be wrong.

Being a programmer guru yourself :D what's your opinion regarding a sequel: would it be more efficient to use Unity, because you have a lot of premade assets, or would it be better using another engine, which has no premade assets, but it is more suitable for a huge RPG like PoE?

 

[Anthony Davis]

I noticed several posts on the Obs forums, in which developers say that they had to recompress images, textures to reduce memory usage. Is this done because Unity is a shitty resource hog engine, and they have to do this to reduce systems requirements and load times? If it is, wouldn't it make more sense to use another engine if they do a sequel? I hope they consider it in the future.

As I understand, it has to do with the way Unity loads the resource pak files. Apparently it is less than ideal for an RPG like PoE because many resources can be loaded at pretty much ANY time, due to spells, items, summons, etc.

Again, it's not really a bug or an issue with Unity per se, it's just that their resource handling is not optimized for something as dynamic as an RPG. I would imagine it would have troubles with any sort of game with so much dynamic content that can be loaded. Not content in the sense of a story, but content from a game engine point of view, where almost anything ca be loaded at anytime.*

Also, for those backseat drivers, this is an issue that didn't even come up till we had gigs of content into the game.

I do believe that Dan Spitzley and Matt Boynton fixed and optimized quite a bit of it though - at least I heard.



* = I'm not on the team. I am recounting the issue as I understand it, which might be wrong.

Being a programmer guru yourself :D what's your opinion regarding a sequel: would it be more efficient to use Unity, because you have a lot of premade assets, or would it be better using another engine, which has no premade assets, but it is more suitable for a huge RPG like PoE?

The obvious answer is that it depends on the budget and schedule.

No engine is perfect, and usually if you switch from one engine to another, you are just switching one set of problems for another. With an engine you have and have used, at least it is the devil you know.

There is also a piecemeal approach where you try re-factor and optimize just select systems with each iteration. This is the approach I am usually in favor of.

However I can imagine certain cases where the engine you have is not salvageable. It's such a train wreck that all you can do is change engines and hope it works out. I don't think that is where we are with Unity. From what I've seen, Unity seems pretty good as long as you don't try to do something it is bad at.

 

[Semper]

Again, it's not really a bug or an issue with Unity per se, it's just that their resource handling is not optimized for something as dynamic as an RPG. I would imagine it would have troubles with any sort of game with so much dynamic content that can be loaded. Not content in the sense of a story, but content from a game engine point of view, where almost anything ca be loaded at anytime.

was there ever thought about licensing the source code of unity to rewrite the resource handling? dunno how much that will cost, but perhaps it's something to consider for future work with that engine.

 

[J_C]

I noticed several posts on the Obs forums, in which developers say that they had to recompress images, textures to reduce memory usage. Is this done because Unity is a shitty resource hog engine, and they have to do this to reduce systems requirements and load times? If it is, wouldn't it make more sense to use another engine if they do a sequel? I hope they consider it in the future.

As I understand, it has to do with the way Unity loads the resource pak files. Apparently it is less than ideal for an RPG like PoE because many resources can be loaded at pretty much ANY time, due to spells, items, summons, etc.

Again, it's not really a bug or an issue with Unity per se, it's just that their resource handling is not optimized for something as dynamic as an RPG. I would imagine it would have troubles with any sort of game with so much dynamic content that can be loaded. Not content in the sense of a story, but content from a game engine point of view, where almost anything ca be loaded at anytime.*

Also, for those backseat drivers, this is an issue that didn't even come up till we had gigs of content into the game.

I do believe that Dan Spitzley and Matt Boynton fixed and optimized quite a bit of it though - at least I heard.



* = I'm not on the team. I am recounting the issue as I understand it, which might be wrong.

Being a programmer guru yourself :D what's your opinion regarding a sequel: would it be more efficient to use Unity, because you have a lot of premade assets, or would it be better using another engine, which has no premade assets, but it is more suitable for a huge RPG like PoE?

The obvious answer is that it depends on the budget and schedule.

No engine is perfect, and usually if you switch from one engine to another, you are just switching one set of problems for another. With an engine you have and have used, at least it is the devil you know.

There is also a piecemeal approach where you try re-factor and optimize just select systems with each iteration. This is the approach I am usually in favor of.

However I can imagine certain cases where the engine you have is not salvageable. It's such a train wreck that all you can do is change engines and hope it works out. I don't think that is where we are with Unity. From what I've seen, Unity seems pretty good as long as you don't try to do something it is bad at.

Talking about engines. What about your own Onyx engine? I remember when the company developed it for Dungeon Siege 3 (IIRC), you guys poured a lot of time and resource into it. Back then I though this is great, you can use this for your future projects, you know the code like the back of your hand and it will be a cakewalk to develop RPGs with it. And DS3 was pretty good from a technical standpoint. But then you dismissed the engine, and with the exception of the South Park game, you didn't use it at all if I'm not mistaken. So what's up with Onyx? Was it just a waste of time and resource?

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

The era of self written engines is over or at least coming to an end. You can't compete with companies that specialize in engines. And it's really a modern phenomenon because just a few months ago, UE4 didn't have UMG and a year ago tons of other important stuff was missing. And I'm not even talking about how Unity looked just 3-4 years ago, it was utter shit.

Besides, Obsidian can't even deal with Unity well enough (30fps in certain locations, good god), writing an engine better than Unity is obviously a task way over their head.

Plus, Anthony Davis says Unity can't do certain things. I'd like to know what? Just as a curiosity. But more importantly here, if you work with UE4 and don't like something - it's opensource, rewrite it. No reason to write a whole engine from scratch unless you're doing something extremely non-standard.

So what's up with Onyx? Was it just a waste of time and resource?

I'm not Davis, but most likely it made sense at the time. Things are changing very fast right now.

 

[J_C]

The era of self written engines is over or at least coming to an end. You can't compete with companies that specialize in engines. And it's really a modern phenomenon because just a few months ago, UE4 didn't have UMG and a year ago tons of other important stuff was missing. And I'm not even talking about how Unity looked just 3-4 years ago, it was utter shit.

Besides, Obsidian can't even deal with Unity well enough (30fps in certain locations, good god), writing an engine better than Unity is obviously a task way over their head.

Plus, Anthony Davis says Unity can't do certain things. I'd like to know what? Just as a curiosity. But more importantly here, if you work with UE4 and don't like something - it's opensource, rewrite it. No reason to write a whole engine from scratch unless you're doing something extremely non-standard.

So what's up with Onyx? Was it just a waste of time and resource?

I'm not Davis, but most likely it made sense at the time. Things are changing very fast right now.

Sure, this makes sense. I just thought Onyx is ready and ready to use, and was written to RPGs specifically, so maybe it is better than Unity in this regard. But probably not, since they must have used it instead of Unity if that was the case.

 

[Duraframe300]

The era of self written engines is over or at least coming to an end. You can't compete with companies that specialize in engines. And it's really a modern phenomenon because just a few months ago, UE4 didn't have UMG and a year ago tons of other important stuff was missing. And I'm not even talking about how Unity looked just 3-4 years ago, it was utter shit.

Besides, Obsidian can't even deal with Unity well enough (30fps in certain locations, good god), writing an engine better than Unity is obviously a task way over their head.

Plus, Anthony Davis says Unity can't do certain things. I'd like to know what? Just as a curiosity. But more importantly here, if you work with UE4 and don't like something - it's opensource, rewrite it. No reason to write a whole engine from scratch unless you're doing something extremely non-standard.

So what's up with Onyx? Was it just a waste of time and resource?

I'm not Davis, but most likely it made sense at the time. Things are changing very fast right now.

Sure, this makes sense. I just thought Onyx is ready and ready to use, and was written to RPGs specifically, so maybe it is better than Unity in this regard. But probably not, since they must have used it instead of Unity if that was the case.

The era of self written engines is over or at least coming to an end. You can't compete with companies that specialize in engines. And it's really a modern phenomenon because just a few months ago, UE4 didn't have UMG and a year ago tons of other important stuff was missing. And I'm not even talking about how Unity looked just 3-4 years ago, it was utter shit.

Besides, Obsidian can't even deal with Unity well enough (30fps in certain locations, good god), writing an engine better than Unity is obviously a task way over their head.

Plus, Anthony Davis says Unity can't do certain things. I'd like to know what? Just as a curiosity. But more importantly here, if you work with UE4 and don't like something - it's opensource, rewrite it. No reason to write a whole engine from scratch unless you're doing something extremely non-standard.

So what's up with Onyx? Was it just a waste of time and resource?

I'm not Davis, but most likely it made sense at the time. Things are changing very fast right now.

Sure, this makes sense. I just thought Onyx is ready and ready to use, and was written to RPGs specifically, so maybe it is better than Unity in this regard. But probably not, since they must have used it instead of Unity if that was the case.

They didn't use it because of the middleware cost attached to Onyx.

And Onyx didn't pan out because of too much work, not enough benefit. There were several programmers focused on it.

Additionaly multiple projects for the engine got cancelled (Including the 2012 one which updated the engine to DirectX11)

 

[Crooked Bee]

Infinitron Where is mindx2's report !!!

Itz here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9818

 

[Got bored and left]

Finally!