Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Shadenuat]

Unique items are in, they're just not that interesting (+4 accuracy from magic sword, my accuracy is 42... right).

I'd hunt for items for +skill though like those gloves of Mechanics, just for extra dialogue.

 

[Sensuki]

B a L a N c E

 

[FeelTheRads]

Perhaps having a truly unique item like Carsomyr might upset balance?

You wouldn't want to get that 5 minutes into the game after you played the game 7 times and know exactly where it is and how to get it, right? Just ruins the game for everybody.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

The worst thing for me now are kinesthetics and combat feedback...............................

if you have time read Sensuki thread on this at obsidian forums he makes a thread with IWD and shows how to fix this. Some of the stuff is so obvious when looking at it on the video the way he points out I have to believe that obsidian is already working on it because it makes so much sense. For instance the way targeting works in IWD and you can mouse over any of your characters and that characters highlight circle will blink in sync with whichever monster target circle he has targeted at the moment. If no current target then no monster target circles will blink etc..

That along with some better audio and visual hit feedback and proper spacing and better character fidelity/crispness on screen should help a bunch. One other thing I am not sure is possible or not to address but which may be causing part of the problem is the angle of the overhead camera, it seems to be a more shallow angle than in previous IE games.

I do think things like the above issues are the type of things that WILL be addressed and fixed in the release, so I am not that worried about them at the moment.

 

[Shadenuat]

I do think things like the above issues are the type of things that WILL be addressed and fixed in the release, so I am not that worried about them at the moment.

I dunno, many spell effects just don't feel right. And there are too many of them often lapping on one another to count or even understand what are they doing. Reduce enemy slashing damage in AoE, increace critical for ranged weapons, regenerate stamina centered on caster, regenerate stamina in a circle, make fighter regenerate stamina by taking damage... what-the-fucking-ever, let me just auto attack with 6 arquebuses.

 

[Infinitron]

I do think things like the above issues are the type of things that WILL be addressed and fixed in the release, so I am not that worried about them at the moment.

I dunno, many spell effects just don't feel right. And there are too many of them often lapping on one another to count or even understand what are they doing. Reduce enemy slashing damage in AoE, increace critical for ranged weapons, regenerate stamina centered on caster, regenerate stamina in a circle, make fighter regenerate stamina by taking damage... what-the-fucking-ever, let me just auto attack with 6 arquebuses.

This sounds like a consequence of starting from a high level and not having a chance to learn the game's spells from the beginning. You'd have the same issue with D&D going into BG2 or MotB with a blank slate.

 

[Darth Roxor]

So the game turned out shit, huh?

Well, who could have predicted that

 

[Ulminati]

Anyone but Roguey

 

[Shadenuat]

This sounds like a consequence of starting from a high level and not having a chance to learn the game's spells from the beginning. You'd have the same issue with D&D going into BG2 or MotB with a blank slate.

That's only part of it. The biggest part is that too many abilities look really useless or overlap too much.
There's an AoE priest prayer that gives +10 defence against attacks that cause disease or weakness. It does not heal disease or weakness. It does not gives immunity to a weakening status effect... wtf
Or Holy Power. +5 str and rslv. the last is a dump stat I think, and +5 str is what, 10% bonus damage? *sigh*

 

[roshan]

I dunno, many spell effects just don't feel right. And there are too many of them often lapping on one another to count or even understand what are they doing. Reduce enemy slashing damage in AoE, increace critical for ranged weapons, regenerate stamina centered on caster, regenerate stamina in a circle, make fighter regenerate stamina by taking damage... what-the-fucking-ever, let me just auto attack with 6 arquebuses.

Are those spells really as useless as they sound? They don't even seem remotely "magical", just fucking boring.

 

[Infinitron]

This sounds like a consequence of starting from a high level and not having a chance to learn the game's spells from the beginning. You'd have the same issue with D&D going into BG2 or MotB with a blank slate.

That's only part of it. The biggest part is that too many abilities look really useless or overlap too much.
There's an AoE priest prayer that gives +10 defence against attacks that cause disease or weakness. It does not heal disease or weakness. It does not gives immunity to a weakening status effect... wtf
Or Holy Power. +5 str and rslv. the last is a dump stat I think, and +5 str is what, 10% bonus damage? *sigh*

Eh, D&D had plenty of spells like that too, didn't it? We just learned to recognize and remember the most iconic ones.

 

[Shadenuat]

The fact that D&D had enchant pebbles doesn't mean everything here should be like it; and even iconic spells don't feel as that. PoE's Fireball or Call Lightning doesn't make me jump out of my pants either.

Are those spells really as useless as they sound? They don't even seem remotely "magical", just fucking boring.

It's hard to say. I can say that 72 dmg shot from rogue's gun is useful, since my char has only 152 hp.

I often just don't have time to cast spells like that. I throw a bunch of dmg, then maybe buffs/regens. Enemies move very quick and do all the crazy dancing around the circles, so it's hard to aim anything tacticool that often.

 

[tuluse]

D&D Bless is +1 to hit. That's a 5% increase chance to hit.

 

[Infinitron]

The fact that D&D had enchant pebbles doesn't mean everything here should be like it; and even iconic spells don't feel as that. PoE's Fireball or Call Lightning doesn't make be jump out of my pants either.

Well, provide feedback(tm) on how they can be improved then.

It would be nice if all spells were memorable, but since this game is trying to hearken to D&D's spellcasters with dozens/hundreds of spells at their disposal taken straight from the PnP sourcebooks, it was inevitable that some of them would be "statty"-type stuff that makes your eyes glaze over at first. (Although regenerate stamina in a circle sounds like it could be pretty cool to me.)

 

[Sensuki]

That along with some better audio and visual hit feedback and proper spacing and better character fidelity/crispness on screen should help a bunch. One other thing I am not sure is possible or not to address but which may be causing part of the problem is the angle of the overhead camera, it seems to be a more shallow angle than in previous IE games.

They used the lower camera for the geometry, probably not realizing it would have this effect on combat.

 

[Frusciante]

The worst thing for me now are kinesthetics and combat feedback...............................

if you have time read Sensuki thread on this at obsidian forums he makes a thread with IWD and shows how to fix this. Some of the stuff is so obvious when looking at it on the video the way he points out I have to believe that obsidian is already working on it because it makes so much sense. For instance the way targeting works in IWD and you can mouse over any of your characters and that characters highlight circle will blink in sync with whichever monster target circle he has targeted at the moment. If no current target then no monster target circles will blink etc..

That along with some better audio and visual hit feedback and proper spacing and better character fidelity/crispness on screen should help a bunch. One other thing I am not sure is possible or not to address but which may be causing part of the problem is the angle of the overhead camera, it seems to be a more shallow angle than in previous IE games.

I do think things like the above issues are the type of things that WILL be addressed and fixed in the release, so I am not that worried about them at the moment.

Does anyone even read that thread? I posted on the first page a link to a post by Kaz. He says they were allready working on the targetting feedback (along with the engagement ui).

 

[tuluse]

I think one problem is that the stats are bigger numbers and the human mind just has trouble coping.

+1 to a stat that is at most like ~25 and starts around 4 or 5 with good attacking characters (attack bonus) is really easy to grasp. +10 accuracy when you have 42 and your opponent has 67 defense is just not as intuitive.

 

[J_C]

I only just realized that items no longer have weight and carrying 6 heavy armors is the same as carrying six eggs. I bet Josh really regrets making that "Strength Wizard" example.

I also hate that "you're out camping in the wilderness and want to craft a minor stamina potion? sure, just grind down an amethyst, combine it with fresh river reed, then add 600 fucking gold coins" shit. This whole "balance for the balance god" thing really needs to be reigned in before it completely destroys fun and immersion.

What the fuck?

Is this the best JES could come up with to solve the money sink problem? This is so logical. Add coins to craft something.

It's even worse in D&D and ToEE, beside money you also mix in your experience points. Have you not played ToEE Matt?
I would really expect a little more imagination from Double Fine fan, it's an abstraction for "you bought some mundane items you need for crafting".
Opening the spoiler below may cause aneurism, read at your own risk.

Spoiler

In D&D and ToEE you also spend gold to cast some spells.

Actually I did't play ToEE, blow me. My D&D knowledge are based upon the IE games, and those didn't have these bullshit rules on crafting.

 

[Maculo]

From the Obsidian beta thread,

You are wrong. In naruto you have the taijutsu (only need stamina, no chakra -- just pure combat skill), others (ninjutsu, genjutsu,...) are all based on chakra. So in reality they are all wizards. Normal people that does not control chakra does not become ninjas.

Why, just why.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Does anyone even read that thread? I posted on the first page a link to a post by Kaz. He says they were allready working on the targetting feedback (along with the engagement ui).

Their answer to everything at the moment is "we're working on it", understandable at this point in development.

But Sensuki gives great constructive feedback on how to improve things instead of just hoping they'll fix it properly. The best feedback on the Obsidian forums from what I've seen.

 

[hoverdog]

This thread is indeed better than the Wasteland2's one. I am enjoying myself

 

[Frusciante]

There are some system design issues though. Attributes are not right yet. Inventory system is fubar. Movement in combat needs to be slowed down.

Also characters don't stand out from the background, whereas before they stood out too much.

I personally dont mind the inventory system at all. Movement is easy to tweak, characters standing out is harder but not something impossible.

Most problematic is the attribute system. But like I said before this has more an impact on the fun of character building/character progression (including loot etc). The combat in itself does not suffer from it.
I say most problematic by the way because I dont think they will change it drastically.

Best thing we can hope for (and we should really push for this, a complete change will never happen):
1. There will be a slightly more intuitive attribute system (no muscle wizards)
2. The impact of the attributes on things like area of effect, duration etc will be increased a bit
3. Resolve and perception will be made more useful.

 

[Once more unto the Codex]

At this point why doesn't Obsidian just hire Sensuki?

 

[tuluse]

1. There will be a slightly more intuitive attribute system (no muscle wizards)

This is not actually more intuitive, it's just expected from years of playing D&D ripoffs.

 

[Bubbles]

It's all about context. PoE items ARE Diablo-like. The game has a set of enchantments that it applies loot, like "Fine" or "Bonus Crit Damage". Worst, even the unique items that have distinct lore and names are just regular items with three regular enchantments. Even Diablo 3 had the notion that unique items should be unique, and gave them unique skills.

In short, PoE itemization is simpler than Diablo, with less variables and only "blue items". It can't hold a candle to BG2 in that sense.

Wait for the first expansion before you judge too harshly.