Game News Pillars of Eternity delayed to early 2015

[l3loodAngel]

"It's not an NWN AoO" - it works exactly like that - "Game isn't finished"

The idea behind it is definitely different from a NWN AoO. The execution so far isn't, and that's fine, because it's not a completed feature. If it ships as something indistinguishable from a NWN AoO that will not be fine, but I'm confident they won't. Judging by statements JES has said about gameplay ("Good gameplay is better than whatever your ideas or whatever the player's expectations are. Simple and understandable: don't follow genre conventions simply because they exist. Beyond that, 'attempting to execute something because you think it's a good idea or players insist it's a good idea doesn't always result in something good.'"), it'll either be improved by release or cut.

But that's the whole point. Its the reason why POE is now in a shit hole.

 

[Grunker]

"It's not an NWN AoO" - it works exactly like that - "Game isn't finished"

The idea behind it is definitely different from a NWN AoO. The execution so far isn't, and that's fine, because it's not a completed feature. If it ships as something indistinguishable from a NWN AoO that will not be fine, but I'm confident they won't. Judging by statements JES has said about gameplay ("Good gameplay is better than whatever your ideas or whatever the player's expectations are. Simple and understandable: don't follow genre conventions simply because they exist. Beyond that, 'attempting to execute something because you think it's a good idea or players insist it's a good idea doesn't always result in something good.'"), it'll either be improved by release or cut.

But that's the whole point. Its the reason why POE is now in a shit hole.

It isn't though. For a BETA it has loads of strong points.

 

[l3loodAngel]

But that's the whole point. Its the reason why POE is now in a shit hole.

It isn't though. For a BETA it has loads of strong points.

That somehow do not align? We'll see at the release what comes out of it.

 

[FeelTheRads]

There was also nothing wrong with the IE character inventory,

Bullshit.

Tell me what's wrong with it then.

You couldn't pick up everything in the game in one go.

Also lol at "someone said it will be like that so it will be like that". Plebs are not only arrogant, but also ignorant.

 

[Roguey]

Consuming a ton of time and money in the proccess. Great management indeed

Literally all video game projects are like this. They all cut content/features, because it's not an exact science.

You have a habit of thinking ideas and concepts are free in time and resources to implement and test. I'm pretty sure Josh is much smarter than you in that regard.

No, but this is clearly an idea worth pursuing, considering it's coming from someone who once said "Attacks of opportunity work well in turn-based games, but suck in real-time games."

When Sawyer/Obsidian cuts content/features, it's elegant design (TM), when others do so, they have poor management.

I judge things on a case-by-case basis. Notice how I haven't criticized Wasteland 2 for cutting the stealth skill. That was a good decision, because their scope was already large enough as it was, and they never explicitly promised to include it as a stretch goal, unlike Larian's bungles.

Tell me what's wrong with it then.

Juggling items to keep everyone from getting encumbered is bad. The way ammo/potion/jewelery and gems/scrolls stack in the base games is terrible. Picking up items with a character until their inventory is full, sending all or most of those items to a bag of holding, then repeating that process is tedious. The lists are too small, but that's a resolution issue.

PoE fixed some of these issues, and they'll eventually tweak it to fix the rest.

 

[Sensuki]

Juggling items isn't really an issue in some of the titles where you get strength belts (bg2 mostly) and that's not a UI issue it's a mechanics issue. Ammo, Potion, Gem, Scroll stacking is 100% fine with the Tweak Pack mod, Picking up items is fine, but PE's system is slightly better because you can pass the items to another character in the loot UI.

When people say they enjoy the Infinity Engine game Inventory system it's because it's got a good UI and it's a good slot based system. Could it be improved? Sure, but I wouldn't say that PE's inventory system is better. It makes some concessions for the improvements it tries to make. I think sticking to 720p window size was a mistake personally. Once you get over 1080p it's just awful.

 

[Black]

Ahahaha, PoE will suck shit :D

 

[TheGreatOne]

I judge things on a case-by-case basis. Notice how I haven't criticized Wasteland 2 for cutting the stealth skill. That was a good decision, because their scope was already large enough as it was, and they never explicitly promised to include it as a stretch goal, unlike Larian's bungles.

The case most often being "had JES anything to do with the development of the game?". If he had, then all is forgiven. Oh and how characteristic of you to criticize a game with solid gameplay for cutting some extra content while being OK with a game that (allegedly) is too simplistic and lacking in depth for cutting entire gameplay mechanics out from the game.

Yes it's a problem that kickstarter stretch goals "force" designers to promise players content that they can't deliver because they're too detached from reality/optimistic to ever think how much implementing said content takes time and money to produce and test, but D:OS isn't the biggest offender here. Broken Age (and from what I've read Star Citizen) had a lot more unfulfilled promises and it remains to be seen whether or not Pillars of Eternity will cut content that was promised in the kickstarter to make the deadline. DOS was in fact a lot better in this regard, seeing as Wasteland 2 seemingly turned out to be a disappointment and Pillars of Eterenity is such a fundamentally flawed project that whether or not they can deliver the stretch goal promises is irrelevant by this point when the game fails to even deliver its core promise of being a spiritual successor to IE games.

 

[Duraframe300]

When people say they enjoy the Infinity Engine game Inventory system it's because it's got a good UI and it's a good slot based system. Could it be improved? Sure, but I wouldn't say that PE's inventory system is better. It makes some concessions for the improvements it tries to make. I think sticking to 720p window size was a mistake personally. Once you get over 1080p it's just awful.

Did you ever get a reason for that/Are you sure its not going to change?

Because I agree 100%

 

[Sensuki]

It's probably because it requires additional 2D art and programming time. Here's a relevant quote from a PM reply I got from Brian Macintosh

Kaz has been able to fit all the functionality we wanted so far into the 720p windows, and we wouldn't want to add functionality that would just be inaccessible to people on 720p.

Now that there's been a delay I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask for larger UI screens or something. I really wish they'd built for at least 1080p and then downscaled the UI.

 

[Abelian]

There was also nothing wrong with the IE character inventory,

Bullshit.

Tell me what's wrong with it then.

This is a minor quibble, but the slots are arbitrary since a letter or ring takes up as much space as a suit of plate mail.

No, I don't want inventory tetris. I recall seeing some early BG1 screenshots on Planet Baldur's Gate where the inventory wasn't restricted to 16 slots because there were arrows allowing the player to scroll to the left and right (I don't know if there was an item limit). Though, to be honest, that would only have enabled my hoarding habit.

 

[set]

Anyone who uses the term "invetory tetris" seriously has ADHD. Managing your inventory is such a minor part of any RPG, whether it has item-blocks or item squares or whatever.

 

[Athelas]

There was also nothing wrong with the IE character inventory,

Bullshit.

Tell me what's wrong with it then.

This is a minor quibble, but the slots are arbitrary since a letter or ring takes up as much space as a suit of plate mail.

No, I don't want inventory tetris. I recall seeing some early BG1 screenshots on Planet Baldur's Gate where the inventory wasn't restricted to 16 slots because there were arrows allowing the player to scroll to the left and right (I don't know if there was an item limit). Though, to be honest, that would only have enabled my hoarding habit.

It's an abstraction that works well enough. You can carry 16 letters or rings. You can't carry 16 suits of plate mail (though I think you can with 2x Strength).

A letter would also need some 'breathing room' so that it wouldn't get crumpled.

Anyone who uses the term "invetory tetris" seriously has ADHD. Managing your inventory is such a minor part of any RPG, whether it has item-blocks or item squares or whatever.

Of the top-3 Codex RPG's, two have an inventory that doesn't let you view more than 5 items at a time. Scrolling to see more items makes up a non-minor part of gameplay.

 

[TheGreatOne]

Spoiler

Neander Grognards win again

 

[tuluse]

I want to see someone do an x-com style inventory in a full blown RPG. Different pockets with different costs to access.

Then you can have JES's top of pack for all the things you can't access in battle but carry around.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

Anyone who uses the term "invetory tetris" seriously has ADHD. Managing your inventory is such a minor part of any RPG, whether it has item-blocks or item squares or whatever.

I dont mind it as well, but It always seems to work better on games that require you to carefully choose which gear to take and carry, like survival games, Like Resident Evil 1\2 and 4. My all time favorite will always be System Shock 2 inventory, its sleek, love the detail of the items and descriptions, and the sounds while picking items and arranging them is great, and it works in the game setting, Do you take that big grenade launcher, or all those health stims?. However I do think if its a game like POE a grid inventory is not preferable, for the sake of management a direct one like what they are trying to do works best in the end. Just make the item art pretty and I am happy.

 

[Infinitron]

Josh explains the delay:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68877-delayed-to-early-2015/?p=1520405

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68877-delayed-to-early-2015/?p=1520422

 

[Sensuki]

Yeah already posted in the PE thread, although I suppose that's where you got the images from

 

[Rake]

Too slow, no brofists for you

 

[Roguey]

lock and trap xp rewards

blended flinches

The squeaky Malignacious gets the grease.

Save/load and other persistence issues. This has been more troublesome than we initially expected

Maybe we shouldn't have been so hard on Harebrained after all. A Unity-specific issue?

 

[Athelas]

The squeaky Malignacious gets the grease.

The IE games had hit reactions for all attacks. Of course, they didn't actually interrupt a character's action (save for spellcasting), which is probably why Obsidian couldn't just do the same - until now, apparently.

Maybe we shouldn't have been so hard on Harebrained after all. A Unity-specific issue?

I think it's safe to say that PoE's 'world persistence' is a bit more complex than SRR's.

 

[Roguey]

The IE games had hit reactions for all attacks. Of course, they didn't actually interrupt a character's action (save for spellcasting), which is probably why Obsidian couldn't just do the same - until now.

I never noticed them. Whether it was a fake attack, a miss, or a hit, it all looked the same to me.

 

[Athelas]

I never noticed them. Whether it was a fake attack, a miss, or a hit, it all looked the same to me.

I was referring to non-fake attacks that succesfully hit, by the way.

 

[Sensuki]

I never noticed them. Whether it was a fake attack, a miss, or a hit, it all looked the same to me.

Not very observant are you :/

No wonder you like popamole features

 

[Roguey]

Not very observant are you :/

No wonder you like popamole features

I didn't notice the combat/ready stance or the lack-of either.