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Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Self-Ejected

CptMace

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Die große Nation
I have a feeling the factions will only be a focus in act 2 and be quickly forgotten about after that, no matter how involved and in-depth their storylines are. I'd like to be wrong, of course, but I doubt I am. Unless act 2 is 90% of the game, that works, too.

I don't know, there seems to be more about them. Armors have a trait which says something like Unfit for Vailian republics so I guess it has more ties with gameplay.
edit : or it's just, you know, sawyer who makes sure to counter-balance his character's cruel lack of personality with some fucking gimmick.
 
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Sannom

Augur
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
951
I don't know, there seems to be more about them. Armors have a trait which says something like Unfit for Vailian republics so I guess it has more ties with gameplay.
That's a trait for Pallegina's paladin order, she gets a malus when she doesn't wear gear fit for the Vailian Republics.
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
The heavy narrative emphasis on adra (to the point that it seems to be connected to almost every major event in the plot and backstory) strikes me as misguided. I get that they want to showcase what makes the setting unique, but they should be exploring the ideas and concepts that make the setting unique, not mineral deposits. Adra feels way too much like a MacGuffin du jour that can serve any convenient narrative function.

It's not only adra, it's souls + Engwithans + adra. None of which are very interesting or explored in any detail. Obsidian treat them as plot-manufacturers and setting-defining to the exclusion of everything else that is actually interesting, like the Saint's War. You know, a conflict created by people and featuring people. The setting itself is too generic and by-the-numbers to carry the whole game (unlike VtM:B f.e.) and it doesn't, that's why they default to souls and adra, and Engwithans while forgetting that drama includes the motivations of characters within it, the setting is just a backdrop on which unique conflicts can happen. Even if the writers aren't technically proficient, and oh boy, they certainly aren't, but they center the story around actual drama, as opposed to god-beings returned to do god-things which has no tension at all, it will work regardless of any technical ineptitude.
You can describe vast swaths of the setting without any mention of souls and adra at all. The new game is about a multi-faction conflict with themes of imperialism and colonisation from both sides, and advertised features include the faction system and personal relationships with your companions. The last game revealed that even the gods aren't above mundane human concerns but are in fact a product of them. You're extrapolating so much from "a quest where you meet some souls"
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I can't believe how retarded you have to be in order to argue without knowing the subject you're arguing about.

Go and read what is the personal initiative round instead of spamming nonsense, ffs.

Meanwhile, I had a character killed in combat, because since PoE doesn't use rounds, but recovery time (delay comong from the rules) + action animation (fixed as a number of frames), I had a situation where my recovery time had ran out and I my animation for Second wind was running, the character was hit and killed before the Second Wind casting animation had finished running. Genius combat system.

The irony is that PoE's whole combat system ended up the way it is because of technical limitations and lack of time to overcome them. No one really knows, and no one can really show you in any PoE UI how much time it takes a character to recover and make another attack, from start to finish. I have established this myself by asking Josh on tumblr. No one knows. The engine doesn't provide this data. If anyone wants to find out, they have to capture video and count the frames fhere, for every character model, with every weapon. That's how much PoE's combat system is imperfect and imrovised.

And then you have fanboys wetting their pants in defense of something that was never ironed out as execution vs. a combat system which was part of its engine from its development and functioning as intended. The irony of a fanboy's logic.
 
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Sensuki

Arcane
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Location
New North Korea
Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
it's about removing the clunky 6 second round action lockout and abusable dead time, which PoE did.

It's not strictly 6 seconds, that is only if you pllay at 30 FPS. I play at 40 FPS, so it is 4 seconds because the animations are smoother and the game feels much better at this speed, I think there's several other codexers that also play on 40 and wholeheartedly agree. I think the wait time after a cast or 'full round action' was a good implementation and reasonably balanced for the most part. At 40 FPS, where the wait time is only 4 seconds it feels much better than the default game speed. I also think that being able to move about in between actions is great and the difference between the IE games and Pillars of Eternity here feels a lot more like some of the differences between Starcraft: Brood War (IE games) and Starcraft 2 (PoE). Using movement to control enemy aggro, and as a response to unit actions is one of the things that only adds depth to the combat, and removing that takes away from it.

Yes, you can kite quite badly in the IE games but I don't think slowing down unit action recovery is the best way to solve that problem (I think it's quite terrible, nor do I really care about people kiting) and it only does damage to some of the other tactical uses that IE style and general RTS movement permits. There are many other ways in game design to tackle that without even touching action speed, or even movement speed. Aarklash Legacy chooses to seal combats within a certain area. Once again not my favourite idea, but the area you do get is reasonably generous does allow you to use the movement system to react to enemy actions without being able to run away from anything.

The idea that units or people should or do just stand there in combat and fight it out no matter what is bullshit, sometimes people run and sometimes retreating is the best play and I think it's a silly design for being able to leave immediate combat to be very difficult. It should be the other way around. Running away doesn't take much effort but stopping someone running away with some kind of special move does and it feels much more natural to use things like blink daggers, slows, stuns and holds etc to deal with retreating units, like how pretty much every other game that has combat similar to this handles it.

No? It feels clunky as fuck and doesn't feel intuitive at all. I guess people can acquire any taste but I played loads of RTS before RPGs and as soon as I realised the game has fake turns in terms of action rounds it lost all its fluidity.

While it never bothered me personally, I do agree that the fake attacks in the IE games are not good, good thing is that you can remove them in BG2 with Tob:Ex and in IWD1 with a mod (probably by the TobEx devs) and combat feels a lot better. The Let's play I did a few years ago that I put on youtube has this mod.

With 40 FPS it's basically like this. Let's say I have 2 attacks per round, when in combat and my character starts playing their attack animation, this timer begins, attacks at 40FPS are somewhere between 15-25 frames (a bit less than a second). I make one attack, and I can perform another in this time. I can do it immediately, or I can move a short distance and make another. By now the timer has ended and I am free to perform another 'round' worth of actions at will.

The default game speed does feel a bit crap. but switch it to 40 FPS and it feels great.
 
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Starwars

Arcane
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
2,834
Location
Sweden
This was pretty good.
93TB640.png
 

fobia

Guest
Should have been codex backer content!
:love:
But, we don't actually know what that is, right?
Or did I just miss it?
 

Cross

Arcane
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
3,036
The heavy narrative emphasis on adra (to the point that it seems to be connected to almost every major event in the plot and backstory) strikes me as misguided. I get that they want to showcase what makes the setting unique, but they should be exploring the ideas and concepts that make the setting unique, not mineral deposits. Adra feels way too much like a MacGuffin du jour that can serve any convenient narrative function.

It's not only adra, it's souls + Engwithans + adra. None of which are very interesting or explored in any detail. Obsidian treat them as plot-manufacturers and setting-defining to the exclusion of everything else that is actually interesting, like the Saint's War. You know, a conflict created by people and featuring people. The setting itself is too generic and by-the-numbers to carry the whole game (unlike VtM:B f.e.) and it doesn't, that's why they default to souls and adra, and Engwithans while forgetting that drama includes the motivations of characters within it, the setting is just a backdrop on which unique conflicts can happen. Even if the writers aren't technically proficient, and oh boy, they certainly aren't, but they center the story around actual drama, as opposed to god-beings returned to do god-things which has no tension at all, it will work regardless of any technical ineptitude.
You can describe vast swaths of the setting without any mention of souls and adra at all. The new game is about a multi-faction conflict with themes of imperialism and colonisation from both sides
A conflict that is caused by the Deadfire region being the only known source of a unique type of adra, luminous adra. Like I said, virtually every major plot and world building element of both PoE 1 and PoE 2 can ultimately be attributed to the importance of adra and its soul-related properties.

And did you forget that the main antagonist of Deadfire is a giant adra statue? :lol:
 
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Sensuki

Arcane
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Oct 26, 2012
Messages
9,831
Location
New North Korea
Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Still only have a few hours in, but in addition to the very narrow spell selection (which they say they are working on) for pure casters, the cast times seem seriously off right now. Facing the lagufaeth (many of whom have ranged abilities unlike the very easy titan), I can start casting slow at the very beginning of combat while all of my other party members rush in to engage, and by the time I get anywhere close to finishing that cast, the lizards have apparently had like 5+ attacks, my wizard has been hit by a paralyzing dart, and I lose the spell.

One of the problems here is something I mentioned earlier in this thread, they overlooked something
 

Prime Junta

Guest
A few more thoughts on the Penetration mechanic.

The mechanic itself is fine, but many classes are in serious lack of ways to increase it. This means that any low-Pen weapon with no modal to bump it up is kinda useless a lot of the time. I tried making an implement-focused geomancer and was just getting No Pen all the time. Not much fun. The way things currently stand entire categories of weapons and skills are badly underpowered.

Because this is so obviously un-:balance:, I'm sure it will be addressed.
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,473
Wanted to share this list of revised racial abilities I found on the Obsidian forum, might come in useful.

Some of them (at first glance) look better than the ones from PoE1.

Also, I seem to remember Josh saying that the Godlike will have two racial abilities (to cover their lack of wearing headgear, which he claims can be pretty powerful), but for now only the Death and Fire Godlikes have two of them.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,732
Pathfinder: Wrath
People are too fixated on the 6 seconds, while how long the round is is unimportant, as long as it's something humanly manageable and perceptible when dealing with 5 or 6 PCs. The important part is that it's manageable and consistent throughout the game. The combat is then structured for the developers as well, when they know you can't cast more than 1 spell every 3 seconds (f.e.) they have a much more workable time-frame around which to balance everything. The only gimmick mobs in P1 had was trying to frontload their entire repertoire in the first second of combat and then spam stuns (Lagufaeth, Banshees, Adragans) to try to control how many actions you perform because they can't keep up otherwise. That's why Prayers were so overpowered, they nullified the mobs' only gimmick. That was the entire game, no mob in the entirety of the game tried to whittle you down with well-placed abilities, with maybe the possible exception of Concelhault with his Crushing Doom.

Like AwesomeButton said, it feels and is all improvised on the spot, it's disjointed and unclear, even for the devs themselves (who can't play the game on PotD). It needs strict rules on how to manage combat through time, so you have a strong foundation on which to build up, otherwise you get P1's clusterfuck.
 

Sensuki

Arcane
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Messages
9,831
Location
New North Korea
Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Wholeheartedly agree.

Even still, far from the biggest issues in either Pillars in regards to a clean combat experience. The biggest issues are probably the visual ones, and while unit action speed is partly visual, being able to see what is going on trumps being able to see how long things are going on for.

It also looks like the """improvements""" to unit spacing, pathing etc are having the Starcraft 2 effect on the game, when what you really want is Brood-War-esque without some of the BW specific quirks.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,732
Pathfinder: Wrath
Also, I seem to remember Josh saying that the Godlike will have two racial abilities (to cover their lack of wearing headgear, which he claims can be pretty powerful), but for now only the Death and Fire Godlikes have two of them.

Moon and Nature god-like still have the best racials and they don't even have a second one yet. Fire is all but useless, unless +1 armor is a lot. Hearth orlan is still good and my main playthrough will still be with one of them.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,503
Also, I seem to remember Josh saying that the Godlike will have two racial abilities (to cover their lack of wearing headgear, which he claims can be pretty powerful), but for now only the Death and Fire Godlikes have two of them.

Moon and Nature god-like still have the best racials and they don't even have a second one yet. Fire is all but useless, unless +1 armor is a lot. Hearth orlan is still good and my main playthrough will still be with one of them.

All racials seem gutted, HO retained and nature godlike got buffed to probably be the go to best one.
 

Sannom

Augur
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
951
Fire is all but useless, unless +1 armor is a lot.
Have you been reading this thread at all? This has been the main topic of discussion so far.

"And probably use Imoen Romance mods"

OK, now I'm fucking offended. That was totally uncalled for.
Don't fool yourself, the Codex is a den of incestuous fuckers, who happens to have interesting thoughts about RPG.
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
The heavy narrative emphasis on adra (to the point that it seems to be connected to almost every major event in the plot and backstory) strikes me as misguided. I get that they want to showcase what makes the setting unique, but they should be exploring the ideas and concepts that make the setting unique, not mineral deposits. Adra feels way too much like a MacGuffin du jour that can serve any convenient narrative function.

It's not only adra, it's souls + Engwithans + adra. None of which are very interesting or explored in any detail. Obsidian treat them as plot-manufacturers and setting-defining to the exclusion of everything else that is actually interesting, like the Saint's War. You know, a conflict created by people and featuring people. The setting itself is too generic and by-the-numbers to carry the whole game (unlike VtM:B f.e.) and it doesn't, that's why they default to souls and adra, and Engwithans while forgetting that drama includes the motivations of characters within it, the setting is just a backdrop on which unique conflicts can happen. Even if the writers aren't technically proficient, and oh boy, they certainly aren't, but they center the story around actual drama, as opposed to god-beings returned to do god-things which has no tension at all, it will work regardless of any technical ineptitude.
You can describe vast swaths of the setting without any mention of souls and adra at all. The new game is about a multi-faction conflict with themes of imperialism and colonisation from both sides
A conflict that is caused by the Deadfire region being the only known source of a unique type of adra, luminous adra. Like I said, virtually every major plot and world building element of both PoE 1 and PoE 2 can ultimately be attributed to the importance of adra and its soul-related properties.

And did you forget that the main antagonist of Deadfire is a giant adra statue? :lol:
Luminous adra is a natural resource for the people of the setting to fight over, and the statue is a way to reset your character and get you into the new plot. They're McGuffins which will probably get more Lore and plot content but not the point of the whole thing. New Vegas starts with you being shot over a poker chip and the factions are all fighting over Hoover Dam, but the story of the game isn't about poker chips and dams.
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
Wanted to share this list of revised racial abilities I found on the Obsidian forum, might come in useful.

Some of them (at first glance) look better than the ones from PoE1.

Also, I seem to remember Josh saying that the Godlike will have two racial abilities (to cover their lack of wearing headgear, which he claims can be pretty powerful), but for now only the Death and Fire Godlikes have two of them.
Thank God complex terms like "history" and "near death" have hyperlinks to explain them but simple, intuitive terms like "bloodied" and "power level" don't
 

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