Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Prime Junta]

what TTON needed was an editor, not a better class of prose stylist

More than that, it also needed a coherent vision of what it actually wants to be. If you lack that, the best you'll get is a cobbled-together mess of stuff, some of which may be good, but which doesn't add up to anything particularly compelling.

 

[Sensuki]

The story in PoE is good is a pretty good dumbfuck detector, and the recent MCA interview further proves that point

 

[Riddler]

Both of them have prescription glasses though..

Oh yeah? Have you seen the prescriptions? I buy Magnum XL condoms, by the way. Naturally, I wouldn't do that unless I needed them for my very large penis.

Horn-rimmed styled glasses frames are a statement, my dude. They aren't called the female fedora for nothing. We've had thin and light glasses frames since I got my first prescription glasses as a child in 1986.

In any event, wearing glasses and getting hired to write for a computer game doesn't make you a "nerd." That makes you a dweeb. Nerds actually have expertise in useful things like advanced mathematics, engineering, etc. This woman's bona fides are writing for no-name "magazines" that are one step above vanity publishing, and absolutely nothing else; I'm not sure where she went to university (if anywhere), but I'm guessing she probably didn't major in biochemistry. I've ferreted out many like her who've been hired to write for developers like inXile and Obsidian. BioWare pioneered the practice. These fanfiction-tier "writers" are a dime a dozen, and I strongly believe they contribute to the forgettable, tryhard and pretentious writing quality found in many crowdfunding-related games. T:ToN fell victim to it hard.

Why am I being mean to these women I don't even know? Must be because I hate women, right? Consider for a moment that it might be because they are walking stereotypes and, more importantly, no-talent hacks. Real mystery why the writing quality keeps not being up to par in these spiritual successors. We just can't figure it out!

Anyway, they should check their glasses privilege. I suffer from a disease called keratoconus, and I have to wear special contact lenses in order to see properly. I can't even wear glasses, not if I want to see without real-life chromatic aberration turned up to Ultra.

Look at how the glasses distorted how their faces line up inside and outside of the glasses. Non-prescription glasses doesn't do this.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

She’s the editor in chief of Strange Horizons, which has been nominated for multiple Hugo awards.

No, she's the co-editor in chief. There are probably five or six of them, not unlike banks having fifteen VPs because VP sounds impressive to people who don't know that banks have fifteen VPs.

In today's science fiction industry, I don't doubt that they've been nominated for multiple Hugo awards. The list of Hugo finalists is absolutely huge, let alone nominees.

Science fiction is near and dear to me, and I've been devouring it for going on thirty years now. I'm extremely selective about any material published past the turn of the century, and especially any material published this decade, because the quality has gone WAY downhill since the glory days of Isaac Asimov, Ursula LeGuin, L. Sprague de Camp, Larry Niven, Arthur C. Clarke, Greg Bear et al. Sadly, even some of the old greats like Neal Stephenson have gone downhill in these latter days.

.

She’s one of two co-editors. The categories Strange Horizon has been nominated in went from five to six nominees last year.

Larry Niven, really?

 

[Blaine]

Look at how the glasses distorted how their faces line up inside and outside of the glasses. Non-prescription glasses doesn't do this.

You've sleuthed the truth, but the rest of my points still stand.

Larry Niven, really?

Yes, really Larry Niven, the Larry Niven who actually won both a Nebula and a Hugo during a much more prestigious era of science fiction. The Integral Trees is probably my favorite Niven novel, although I don't believe it won any awards in its year.

Sticking up for these no-talent hacks while turning your nose up at Larry Niven to get my goat... well, it probably got my goat for a few seconds, but now I'll probably always remember that you're an idiot.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Look at how the glasses distorted how their faces line up inside and outside of the glasses. Non-prescription glasses doesn't do this.

You've sleuthed the truth, but the rest of my points still stand.

Larry Niven, really?

Yes, really Larry Niven, the Larry Niven who actually won both a Nebula and a Hugo during a much more prestigious era of science fiction. The Integral Trees is probably my favorite Niven novel, although I don't believe it won any awards in its year.

Sticking up for these no-talent hacks while turning your nose up at Larry Niven to get my goat... well, it probably got my goat for a few seconds, but now I'll probably always remember that you're an idiot.

It’s grouping him in with de Camp, LeGuin, Asimov and Clarke that I object to.

Maybe Jerry Pournelle is such a cancer that he brings him down in all of their collaborations. But I’ll always remember being so disappointed with Ringworld. It could’ve been such a great concept, the ring as flypaper that’s so bountiful it provokes cultural/technological devolution, but then it turns out civilization fell apart because of, what, a contaminant? Blech.

 

[Blaine]

It’s grouping him in with de Camp, LeGuin, Asimov and Clarke that I object to.

Maybe Jerry Pournelle is such a cancer that he brings him down in all of their collaborations. But I’ll always remember being so disappointed with Ringworld. It could’ve been such a great concept, the ring as flypaper that’s so bountiful it provokes cultural/technological devolution, but then it turns out civilization fell apart because of, what, a contaminant? Blech.

Well, I have to give you a Brofist for responding with such equanimity to my bull-in-a-china-shop approach to this conversation. My blood is up and I frankly can't be held fully responsible for brash and abrasive behavior. You must be from Finland or something.

What I know for certain is that dangerhairs have never produced anything worth reading or playing. Ruination isn't guaranteed if they're only present in dilute quantities, but when concentrated, shit is always the result. Their mindsets and the way they parse the world and human nature are functionally incompatible with producing enjoyable entertainment in the same way an unquiet mind is incapable of mastering zen. One of the things a good writer must be is a keen observer of the human condition, and these people are universally AWFUL at that.

Listen, if a bunch of SJWs get together and make a great game, I'll buy it. In fact, I'll fly out to Commiefornia (because that's where they're going to be, let's be real here) and offer to suck their genitals personally. If they don't want to receive oral sex from a literal Nazi, then I'll hire a high-class empowered prostitute of any or no gender to do it instead. If they're asexual, then I guess we'll just shake hands.

 

[Prime Junta]

Yeah I was hugely disappointed in Niven as well. I still don't get the Ringworm fanboys.

Also, that "more prestigious era" is complete bullshit. A lot of modern sci-fi is head and shoulders better than Clarke, Asimov, Heinlein, or most of the rest of the "golde age" lot. Alastair Reynolds, China Miéville, Ken McLeod, Hal Duncan, and William Gibson to name a few off the top of my head. James S.A. Corey is pretty good too. And as to the second-tier stuff -- I'd put Ann Leckie in this bin -- is better than most second-tier "golden age" stuff. You're just butthurt because the politics are postgender/fat-acceptance rather than conservative/crypto-fascist.

 

[Blaine]

Gibson's been writing science fiction since the 1970s and is easily part of the old guard. Nice try, though.

Also, yes, some more recent science fiction authors are very good, even great. Paolo Bacigalupi springs to mind, notable (in my opinion) for being able to write with almost no descriptive time-wasting.

Heavy descriptive writing is one of the reasons why I mostly avoid the fantasy genre these days.

 

[Prime Junta]

Gibson's been writing science fiction since the 1970s and is easily part of the old guard. Nice try, though.

Dude, Gibson founded a literary movement to directly challenge the old guard. Cyberpunk happened when the spaceships-and-spacemen-and-ray-guns shit got seriously stale. He is from a different generation of writers.

(Oh, and Iain M. Banks of course. His space opera was just plain better than golden-age space opera, so there.)

 

[Blaine]

Dude, Gibson founded a literary movement to directly challenge the old guard. Cyberpunk happened when the spaceships-and-spacemen-and-ray-guns shit got seriously stale. He is from a different generation of writers.

(Oh, and Iain M. Banks of course. His space opera was just plain better than golden-age space opera, so there.)

Seems like you'll need a laser distance measure to get those goalposts set just where you want them. The names I dropped were heavy on original gangsters, admittedly, but you've conveniently ignored my inclusion of Greg Bear, who is younger than Gibson and started writing later.

I consider the entire period from approximately the vicinity of early 1960 to maybe the mid-1980s to be the golden era. There were still plenty of good science fiction novels published prior or subsequently to or on the fringes of that era, such as the legendary Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons.

As for the reason why I tend to think of OGs first, my mother and father had cedar drawers stuffed full of sci-fi novels from their younger years. I read most of them throughout my childhood. This includes a near mint condition first edition, first printing of Dune, with dust cover, which is about two rooms away from where I'm currently sitting. Thankfully, young me never got to that one at the time.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

What I know for certain is that dangerhairs have never produced anything worth reading or playing. Ruination isn't guaranteed if they're only present in dilute quantities, but when concentrated, shit is always the result. Their mindsets and the way they parse the world and human nature are functionally incompatible with producing enjoyable entertainment in the same way an unquiet mind is incapable of mastering zen. One of the things a good writer must be is a keen observer of the human condition, and these people are universally AWFUL at that.

Listen, if a bunch of SJWs get together and make a great game, I'll buy it. In fact, I'll fly out to Commiefornia (because that's where they're going to be, let's be real here) and offer to suck their genitals personally. If they don't want to receive oral sex from a literal Nazi, then I'll hire a high-class empowered prostitute of any or no gender to do it instead. If they're asexual, then I guess we'll just shake hands.

You should read Spinrad’s A World Between, as he seems to have predicted the current cultural milieu. https://www.amazon.com/WORLD-BETWEEN-Norman-Spinrad/dp/1617200530/ref=nodl_

Or if you want your Nazi fix, go for The Iron Dream:

There was a ton of shit published during the golden age and the new wave, too, though. And a ton of second rate stuff. It’s just that we tend to forget about even the second rate stuff because who recommends, say, Robert Sheckley or Fred Saberhagen these days?

 

[Prime Junta]

You don't define literary movements by calendar dates. It's not a neat progression where one period ends and another starts. They overlap.

Gibson is defined as a writer by Neuromancer, which was published in 1984. That's when cyberpunk hit the mainstream, and sci-fi was never the same. Greg Bear and many others remain stuck in the past, but the genre itself has moved on. Grouping Gibson with Heinlein is as absurd as grouping Banks or Miéville with Gibson.

FWIW I reserve a certain amount of disdain for sci-fi writers in particular who just repeat tired 50s to 70s tropes. Sci-fi is supposed to be the speculative, forward-looking genre. What use is there for sci-fi authors who just keep doing the same thing over and over again?

 

[Junmarko]

I'm going to assume you don't listen when you can delete opinions?

....so you listen to the Codex opinions. All of them.

You will never escape.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Listen, if a bunch of SJWs get together and make a great game, I'll buy it. In fact, I'll fly out to Commiefornia (because that's where they're going to be, let's be real here) and offer to suck their genitals personally. If they don't want to receive oral sex from a literal Nazi, then I'll hire a high-class empowered prostitute of any or no gender to do it instead. If they're asexual, then I guess we'll just shake hands.

Hello, Blaine.

 

[Blaine]

You don't define literary movements by calendar dates. It's not a neat progression where one period ends and another starts. They overlap.

I do, though, because I don't parse science fiction according to sociopolitical and/or intellectual movements.

I parse it according to whether it's great and I enjoy reading it. It doesn't matter one fart in a windstorm to me if the authors are communists, royalists, fascists, freethinkers, hippies, anarchists, Easterners, Westerners, or what-have-you. I don't feel any need to join a study group to appreciate the context in which it was written, and it's completely irrelevant to me whether it's the new hotness or old busted hotness.

Great science fiction remains great even in the face of new fads. It stands the test of time. Your implication that older sci-fi is somehow tired and "lesser" than the new hotness suggests to me that you either haven't read as much of it as you let on, or are a fad-following hypebeast who's more interested in "movements" than the actual meat of the stuff.

 

[boobio]

Problem glasses
Danger hair
Godawful memes
"Fuck the patriarchy!" stare

Tatoos of verdure
Septum piercing of brass
Costa Mesa, California
Better check that privilege or you know she'll get intersectional on your ass


I'm just messin' around guys, we're gonna have the best cRPG of all time with top-tier writing on our hands here in just a matter days. It's gonna be great, and boy am I hyped.

*puke*

This Kate Dollarhyde chick blocked me on twitter and I have never heard of her until now; she must be using a blocklist.

 

[Prime Junta]

I do, though, because I don't parse science fiction according to sociopolitical and/or intellectual movements.

autism.gif

I parse it according to whether it's great and I enjoy reading it. It doesn't matter one fart in a windstorm to me if the authors are communists, royalists, fascists, freethinkers, hippies, anarchists, Easterners, Westerners, or what-have-you. I don't feel any need to join a study group to appreciate the context in which it was written, and it's completely irrelevant to me whether it's the new hotness or old busted hotness.

Bully for you then. That kind of makes it impossible to discuss it meaningfully, though, wouldn't you say? "I liked it" -- "Okay" -- end of discussion.

Great science fiction remains great even in the face of new fads. It stands the test of time.

This is true. The trouble is that there is precious little of it. Most golden age sci-fi has aged extremely badly. What was supposed to be a bold vision of the future turned out to be kitsch.

There are a few, of course -- Stanislaw Lem, Theodore Sturgeon, Cordwainer Smith, some Arthur C. Clarke, the Foundation trilogy. To name a few.

Your implication that older sci-fi is somehow tired and "lesser" than the new hotness suggests to me that you either haven't read as much of it as you let on, or are a fad-following hypebeast who's more interested in "movements" than the actual meat of the stuff.

That was not my implication at all. There's a tremendous amount of garbage written right now as well, and some of the golden age stuff is genuinely good, and has genuinely lasting worth.

What is worthless, however, is just mindlessly repeating the successes of yesteryear packed into new covers, especially in a genre like sci-fi which is supposed to be all about... you know, the future. Possible worlds. Exploring exciting concepts through fiction.

(This BTW is why I'm getting increasingly tired of RPGs. Firing up yet another game where I'm a sword-wielding chosen one who slays a ton of monsters to save the world is just fucking old. The genre is creatively bankrupt, in the mainstream and near-mainstream anyway.)

 

[Junmarko]

Great science fiction remains great even in the face of new fads. It stands the test of time.

Speaking of...

Warren Spector needs to dust off Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 in light of his rant against video game violence...

JC would be ashamed. Lol.

 

[Blaine]

Bully for you then. That kind of makes it impossible to discuss it meaningfully, though, wouldn't you say?

When I say "the context in which it was written," I mean the real-world context within which the novel was written by the author, not the body text. I really shouldn't need to clarify this for several reasons, but there you go.

This Kate Dollarhyde chick blocked me on twitter and I have never heard of her until now; she must be using a blocklist.

Yeah, left-wing Reddit, Tumblr, Twitter et al. appear to have extensive surveillance and listmaking networks in place poised to preemptively ban/unfriend/unfollow LITERAL NAZIS in case there's a chance you'll broadcast some incorrect opinions or colonialist facts into the echo chamber.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Maybe her writing will be great though?

BTW, I can imagine such a nose ring looking good only on a cow.

She'd look right at home in the Labyrinth.

 

[FreeKaner]

Dumpsterfire is post-society anarchoprimitivist trotskyist gay transmetallurgy fanfiction. It will take radioactive suit just to get past the intro screen.

 

[Blaine]

Listen guys, it's been fun, but I'd better pack it in before this goes on for more than a couple of pages. It's clear that Kate Dollarhyde is that particular and undeniable type of person: the type with danger hair, problem glasses, and her pronouns listed on her Twitter profile.

If you're fond of that type of person and think they can write well, then that's your prerogative. Someday, I have no doubt you'll unmask the true culprit behind lackluster-to-bad writing in most of the classic-revival crowdfunded games.

Here at the Codex, we don't censor incorrect opinions. We simply prune them from public threads and tuck them away someplace hidden where only a tiny fraction of the overall userbase can see them. It's completely different, you guys.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Maybe her writing will be great though?

BTW, I can imagine such a nose ring looking good only on a cow.

She'd look right at home in the Labyrinth.

Her short story about the talking carot had kind of an aspiring Cathrynne Valente vibe; not exactly my cup of tea, but I was still somewhat pleasantly surprised.

Also, while this has nothing to do with the game, she’s very cute—pretty even—and you guys would be salivating over a dorky girl with that face if not for the hair dye and the nose ring (which don’t even look bad!). Her look sends all the right signals for anyone who’s ever tried to meet women at a punk show.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Her look sends the right signals if I ever wanted to fuck Stripe from the Gremlins, that's for sure.