Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Max Edge]

No, I meant modding it out myself. I believe modding will be a thing for Deadfire, maybe I'm overestimating it, we'll see.

They can fix some of the rules for me. As for other people's preferences, that's up to them.

I modded PE once and my party started speak italian.

 

[AwesomeButton]

So Greek parents? I assumed due your interest in politics in area, especially Greek ones.

I don't know if I would qualify as a beyaz türk. I am not a Kemalist and I do not believe in westernisation for sake of it. It may have had a brief purpose in 19th century to play catch up, it no longer does. Besides, the same effort brought concept of nation-state and nationalism here as well where it didn't need to be.

AKP did indeed derail greatly, unfortunately not before garnering a legacy enough to upkeep legacy despite constant failure. Such is life in the extremely partisan and zealous political landscape of this place. It seems all they needed was a single one-term success to ride it into eternity, after the turmoil since 60s and really all the way back to 1908.

I have Balkan connections though not Greek ones. I've studied the region's history and politics academically for 7 years, hence my interest. Empires have this advantage over nation states - they are much more tolerant to the various peoples constituting the empire, than the nation states that break off from the empires The great problem that modern Turkey has had, imo, has been that it has had the choice between a mild secularist regime vs a mild authoritarian, anti-secularist/anti-military circles regime, under the guise of a "Turkish homegrown conservatism" ideology. Under the hood it's really a populist authoritarian regime, exploiting the political culture of the society and its weak powers to resist authoritarianism. The sad thing being that the Turkish people haven't had the option for anything better than those two choices. This looks less and less bad, unfortunately, to the backdrop of authoritarian tendencies growing stronger throughout Europe. Enough of that though.

 

[FreeKaner]

I have Balkan connections though not Greek ones. I've studied the region's history and politics academically for 7 years, hence my interest. Empires have this advantage over nation states - they are much more tolerant to the various peoples constituting the empire, than the nation states that break off from the empires The great problem that modern Turkey has had, imo, has been that it has had the choice between a mild secularist regime vs a mild authoritarian, anti-secularist/military circles regime, under the guise of a "Turkish homegrown conservatism" ideology. Under the hood it's really a populist authoritarian regime, exploiting the political culture of the society and its weak powers to resist authoritarianism. The sad thing being that the Turkish people haven't had the option for anything better than those two choices. Enough of that though.

Yes, I would consider myself supportive of state identities for a coherent social fabric but not a fan of nation-states. Which one might criticise as being dumb because that's what almost all states are nowadays. Still while you have given in-depth answers, more so than I expected, you have not answered. Where does your ancestry lie?

Also to not hijack the thread completely:

It seems that the MCA commentary is starting to gain a bit of trajectory around rest of internet as well, I have read at least few pre-order cancellations. I wonder if this will lead to Obsidian giving a statement or will they keep silent and spend some of their accumulated goodwill until the game finally launches?

 

[Jezal_k23]

I think they'll keep silent. By saying anything they acknowledge it and draw attention to it, which they don't want at all near a game release. Silence has been working for them. Attention to the controversy is minimal all things considered.

 

[AwesomeButton]

It's my choice not to give this up, because an identifier such as nationality will always affect how people read and hear me, and I'd rather they just judge objectively.

Nations were conjured by Germans, to keep the 18th c. peasants in tight line formation for longer without breaking I like the 16th century, no one cared about nation then.

Nations are especially pointless on the Balkans too. And talking about Greeks, I think it was August Zeune who had published an anthropological survey where he concluded that contemporary Greeks lack any connection to ancient Greeks, which has made his mention in Greek company scandalous to this day

 

[Molina]

I have Balkan connections though not Greek ones. I've studied the region's history and politics academically for 7 years, hence my interest. Empires have this advantage over nation states - they are much more tolerant to the various peoples constituting the empire, than the nation states that break off from the empires The great problem that modern Turkey has had, imo, has been that it has had the choice between a mild secularist regime vs a mild authoritarian, anti-secularist/military circles regime, under the guise of a "Turkish homegrown conservatism" ideology. Under the hood it's really a populist authoritarian regime, exploiting the political culture of the society and its weak powers to resist authoritarianism. The sad thing being that the Turkish people haven't had the option for anything better than those two choices. Enough of that though.

Yes, I would consider myself supportive of state identities for a coherent social fabric but not a fan of nation-states. Which one might criticise as being dumb because that's what almost all states are nowadays. Still while you have given in-depth answers, more so than I expected, you have not answered. Where does your ancestry lie?

Also to not hijack the thread completely:

It seems that the MCA commentary is starting to gain a bit of trajectory around rest of internet as well, I have read at least few pre-order cancellations. I wonder if this will lead to Obsidian giving a statement or will they keep silent and spend some of their accumulated goodwill until the game finally launches?

IMO, If Obsidian begins to comment, they lose, except if they admit their management failure and gives a public apology. They are not CD project with a mainstream public who doesn't care about management failure.

 

[FreeKaner]

I think they'll keep silent. By saying anything they acknowledge it and draw attention to it, which they don't want at all near a game release. Silence has been working for them. Attention to the controversy is minimal all things considered.

The hope and the right thing to do would be a statement after game launches and is stable, towards upcoming DLCs. If it was a nobody they could just keep silent forever but knowing its MCA who is known generally amongst RPG fans, to a fault really above anyone else, they have to acknowledge this lest they run out of goodwill. CDPR also lost quite bit of goodwill after the working conditions and poor developer retention got out.

It's my choice not to give this up, because an identifier such as nationality will always affect how people read and hear me, and I'd rather they just judge objectively.

Nations were conjured by Germans, to keep the 18th c. peasants in tight line formation for longer without breaking I like the 16th century, no one cared about nation then.

I prefer 17th century, state identity mattered but nations did not. I would say nation and nation-state was invented by the French.

 

[Jezal_k23]

Everyone will forget about CDPR's working conditions until CP2077 arrives, and they probably already have (everyone is excited that they'll show something at E3).

Likewise, I doubt Obsidian has been affected (even now) by the MCA controversy. It hasn't spread, media hasn't picked it up.

 

[2house2fly]

Not at all. I just want to emphasize how fake news and rumors emerge. It was truly regretful, in my opinion, that we had to see the airing of dirty laundry, don't you agree, and especially by someone we all respect greatly? And it was inevitable that it would lead to further interpretations and legends, like it has.

Personally i love gossip and drama so I thought it was great. Avellone smugly bringing up the multiple job offers he's still getting from companies who are *shouts over shoulder* WAY BETTER THAN OBSIDIAN is a great topper too

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

I prefer 17th century, state identity mattered but nations did not. I would say nation and nation-state was invented by the French.

Strongly agree. The Germans may have invented states, but the Revolution gave us the nation and the nation-state. The first Republic made a Faustian bargain: liberte and egalite are wonderful, but it’s near impossible to make either happen without some fraternite and that’s very hard to establish without a sense of national identity. Very hard to disentangle egalitarianism from nationalism.

You see this again in 1848 when nearly all of the liberal revolutionaries who want to overthrow the old order are nationalists. It’s the kind of thing you have to hope we can get past as a species, but I am pessimistic.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Not at all. I just want to emphasize how fake news and rumors emerge. It was truly regretful, in my opinion, that we had to see the airing of dirty laundry, don't you agree, and especially by someone we all respect greatly? And it was inevitable that it would lead to further interpretations and legends, like it has.

Personally i love gossip and drama so I thought it was great. Avellone smugly bringing up the multiple job offers he's still getting from companies who are *shouts over shoulder* WAY BETTER THAN OBSIDIAN is a great topper too

Well, like I said in other places, I have more respect for creators of games/films when I only learn about them through their works. Chris didn't gain any respect in my eyes for surfacing these stories.

"Gossip and drama" - I just can't shake off the knowledge, that these are real people we're talking about, and it's not fun, when you I imagine their relations.

 

[TT1]

Meanwhile, this thread is nearing it's 30th page.

Wtf barik cant remove armor...

In the expansion he can

 

[FreeKaner]

I prefer 17th century, state identity mattered but nations did not. I would say nation and nation-state was invented by the French.

Strongly agree. The Germans may have invented states, but the Revolution gave us the nation and the nation-state. The first Republic made a Faustian bargain: liberte and egalite are wonderful, but it’s near impossible to make either happen without some fraternite and that’s very hard to establish without a sense of national identity. Very hard to disentangle egalitarianism from nationalism.

You see this again in 1848 when nearly all of the liberal revolutionaries who want to overthrow the old order are nationalists. It’s the kind of thing you have to hope we can get past as a species, but I am pessimistic.

We were once past it, the old, first states were better at this. We perhaps see ourselves enlightened but if you read history of ancient Mesopotamia for example they appear much more aware of real power dynamics and existence of a state without romanticism of an ideal, mythic nation. Same deal in 17th century Europe, Ottoman Empire and indeed India and China. They did not see any contradiction between existence of a state identity that's not tied to ethnic or linguistic boundaries. Especially post-westphalia Europe before they got into weird ideas about what it means to be a nation combined with pseudoscience after they colonised a bit too much and suddenly got a little too idealistic about all the exploitation. I would also say nation-state supremacy is only ultimately proven in WW1 also, ironically considering colonial states won.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

We were once past it, the old, first states were better at this. We perhaps see ourselves enlightened but if you read history of ancient Mesopotamia for example they appear much more aware of real power dynamics and existence of a state without romanticism of an ideal, mythic nation. Same deal in 17th century Europe, Ottoman Empire and indeed India and China. They did not see any contradiction between existence of a state identity that's not tied to ethnic or linguistic boundaries. Especially post-westphalia Europe before they got into weird ideas about what it means to be a nation combined with pseudoscience after they colonised a bit too much and suddenly got a little too idealistic about all the exploitation. I would also say nation-state supremacy is only ultimately proven in WW1 also, ironically considering colonial states won.

My concern is really that democracies can’t get past it. Because all of the positive examples are pre democratic. Popular sovereignty may not be worth the trouble.

 

[Max Edge]

You now why nations was invented? People fight about resources and share them with own kind. We cannot gather people in one "Church of man", like Auguste Comte wanted, because there is too much too different people. But, we can cheat them by telling: "You are the nation". Nation must have rules (language, territory, values), so not everyone fits. That why ethnicity is the most common base for nations, is the easiest way, but also hard to avoid (USA is atypical and have other, atypical problems with nationality).

Besides, people cannot forget about history and building by hundred years identity Soviets didn't understand and they fell, European Union doesn't understand and now falling. Nations was invented and we all must live with that.

 

[axedice]

So FreeKaner is indeed a prophet of dumpsterfire and saw the fall long before any of us did. Praise be the prophet, now please tell me your predictions concerning USD/TRY in the coming weeks so I may invest accordingly.

At least we learned the ugly truth before the release of deadfire and avoided paying shekelz to Feargus.

 

[Quillon]

It's my choice not to give this up, because an identifier such as nationality will always affect how people read and hear me, and I'd rather they just judge objectively.

See FreeKaner. Why did you exposed my nationality? Now people are judging me; I'm getting positivity more than I deserve cos of my Anatolian Childnessnessnessness.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/feat...-josh-sawyer-on-pillars-of-eternity-ii,490220

Interview: Obsidian Entertainment's Josh Sawyer on Pillars of Eternity II
After proving that Kickstarting an old-school RPG is definitely doable, Obsidian Entertainment returns to the source for a very different, sea-faring sequel.

With Pillars of Eternity, a niche, crowdfunded title, Obsidian Entertainment sought to recapture the glory days of the Infinity Engine games. If you’re not familiar with the term, the Infinity Engine was the core of a number of isometric PC RPGs, including Baldur’s Gate II, Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment, lauded as some of the best RPGs of all time. Initially asking for $1.1 million, the Kickstarter for Pillars of Eternity wound up raking in around $3.9 million. The resultant game was critically lauded and commercially successful, blending the style of the Infinity Engine games with modern storytelling and a campaign that was at once intimate and epic. A sequel was all but inevitable.

“We had made enough from Pillars that we could have made a sequel that was relevantly modest”, says Josh Sawyer, Design Director at Obsidian Entertainment and Game Director for Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire.

“It would have been a good game but it would have been smaller in scope in a lot of ways. It wouldn’t have had quite as much revision to core features and things like that. With our crowdfunding, it allowed us the potential to raise more funds to add more features, make the game much larger in a lot of different ways.

“There’s a question of whether to go with Kickstarter and Fig. Ultimately, Fig seemed like it was more likely to allow us to raise more funds because it allowed investment in the actual project. There was a lot of speculation among us, again, as with the first game, about where things would wind up in terms of funding.

“We really can’t take crowdfunding for granted. We always hope for the best but we can’t assume that that’s always going to go well, which is why we set a $1,100,000 goal. It all worked out very well.”

“Very well” is a bit of an understatement. The Deadfire crowdfunding campaign was even more successful than that of the original game, with pledges totalling around $4.4 million when the campaign closed. The story is a continuation of the original game but even though it starts right where the other left off, Deadfire is a very different beast. Pillars of Eternity was centred around a keep – upgrading it, protecting it, discovering its secrets and excavating the ruins beneath, One of the secrets uncovered (thanks in part to stretch goals in the first crowdfunding campaign) was a giant statue buried beneath the keep, Caed Nua. Acting as both something of a home base and a way of keeping the story grounded, Caed Nua was a place of refuge and safety – at least until the beginning of Pillars of Eternity 2. Eothas, a god long thought dead possesses the statue titanic statue under the keep, breaking free and absorbing the souls of all nearby. It’s up to the player to follow the awakened god, discover his plans and decide whether to help him or lay him to rest once and for all.

As a result, from the first moment, Deadfire feels larger and more epic than Pillars 1. “We wanted to start with something that felt a little smaller, a little personal, and then raise the stakes and the scope and the scale so that it felt like from Pillars I to Pillars II, you really were moving up in terms of importance in the world and scope of impact. Even the scale of the antagonist that you’re following has become much larger,” says Sawyer. Even though the plan was always to raise the stakes and scale of the second season, the catalyst for that change of scale was something that grew out of some artwork from the original Kickstarter.

“Rob Nesler is the art director of Obsidian. He was doing a lot of early concepting and Kickstarter artwork. He was drawing and doodling the layers of the Endless Paths,” explains Sawyer. “He started putting this crazy statue in it, and I was like, ‘Rob, what is this?’ And he said, ‘I don’t know, just some guy, and as we add more levels we’ll show other parts of his body, and I’m like, ‘Okay, that looks pretty cool.’ It’s certainly a way where we can generate visual interest as we continue to add levels to the Kickstarter campaign.

”When it came time to think about Deadfire I don’t know where I got the idea but I did say half-joking but half-serious, ‘What if Eothas came back and he just occupied that statue and just destroyed everything that you built in the first game and just stomped off into the ocean?’ Some people were like ‘Awesome!’ while others were like ‘That sounds lame as hell’ and so I’m like ‘We’re doing it!” What could have been a copout proves to be a fascinating start to the game. Thanks to the protagonist’s ability to communicate with the dead and see souls, they aren’t killed outright, but are instead left with only a small sliver of their soul remaining. Another god gives the protagonist the option to either pass on to the next life or go back to stop Eothas, and after the second option is chosen they awaken on a boat following the statue as it strides through the sea. The boat is home, transport and protector, and throughout the adventure players will be able to upgrade the ship to sail more dangerous waters, hire new crew and even wage ship-to-ship battles against pirates and other nautical nasties.

Even though we haven’t been able to play too much of Deadfire as yet, the change of pace and the emphasis placed on travel and exploration make Deadfire feel like a grander, more perilous adventure than the first Pillars of Eternity.

 

[2house2fly]

If you get an in-game option from Berath to either move on to the afterlife or come back to chase Eothas and you can choose the former as an early game over, that would be very cool.

 

[Daedalos]

"while others were like ‘That sounds lame as hell’ and so I’m like ‘We’re doing it!”"

-_-

It does sound incredibly lame as hell. But JOSH IS THE MAN, rite?

 

[AwesomeButton]

He never liked the idea of the Stronghold in PoE if I remember right.

 

[Lios]

Nations are especially pointless on the Balkans too. And talking about Greeks, I think it was August Zeune who had published an anthropological survey where he concluded that contemporary Greeks lack any connection to ancient Greeks, which has made his mention in Greek company scandalous to this day

This is accurate, and it's one of those cement blocks in the collective psyche of the modern Greeks built both by irrationality and a need to find a pillar of identity and feeling of being a master of their own lives (which as we know, from 1821 to this day, never happened- enter the tentacles of the English, French, Americans etc etc).
We even had a conman with a pseudo political party here whose main rhetoric was about the blood of all Greeks being in reality ichor and "I would buy off the national debt but the governments don't allow it". They got kinda popular, popular enough to open various Places of assembly, even in my village, which for me was cool, since now all village idiots and loonies could gather all in one place and discuss about the ambrosia that is greek penis or whatever without roaming around the taverns and bars.
Sorry for the offtopic and the english, work is slow today.

 

[Krzysiek]

 

[Ent]

I skipped over the PC requirements due to the enlightening discussions going on in this thread these last few pages and it seems pretty toaster friendly.

 

[Krzysiek]