Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[AwesomeButton]

As much as I want this game to be great, this is hard to argue with right now - from the Obsidian forums:

While leveling up I get the feeling that the build options - especially for single class characters - are extremely limited compared to PoE1. Because all talents got removed (or translated to abilites) and there are only class specific abilites now. Talents that used to be pickable by every class (Quick Switch for example) are now part of a calss (in this case fighter). I don't understand this decision. Some classes share abilites (like Druid and Monk both can take Bull's Will or Bear's Fortitude), but it's a lot less than before.



Then, some of the best and most interesting talents that altered abilites in PoE1 (like Inspiring Radiation, Painful Interdiction and so on) got completely removed.



Now you end up with very similar builds if you are using a single class.



Also, this feels like a totally different game. I get a vibe of Tyranny and not that of PoE. Maybe that's just me though.

I have to say after 2 hours of playing/testing I'm a bit disappointed. Maybe this will get better when I get more used to the different looks and stuff, but at the moment I'm not very hyped. At least no crashes or hefty bugs so far.

"But I thought you guys wanted it to be more like AD&D!" :D

After the removal of health/endurance, which had become a useless differentiation what with unlimited resting, the dividing of what was talents between classes and its restriction is the second piece of good news. I am sick and tired of the "you can be anything you want (and it won't really matter what you chose, unless you make yourself believe it matters)" school of building characters.

I had suspicions about per-encounter spells removing the need to think what you are casting during combat, like Prime Hunta describes. The rest of the changes sound ok to me.

I may have to return to the Obsidian forums, even though I hoped I wouldn't...

 

[ArchAngel]

Pasting a comment I made on the Obsidz beta forums:

I think you guys already know what's good so I won't comment on that much. Main points though:

• Great job on the new stealth mechanics. The UI is intuitive and easy to understand and it feels a lot more "real."
• Great job on the various QoL improvements.
• World map is nice.
• Dialogue reactivity is nice.

The bad, however:

• Health/Endurance ---> Health only is a loss. Since there's no strategic cost, I don't care about taking some damage, which makes the game feel less "tactical."
• Everything per encounter is a loss. I don't care about which spell I should use now and which save for later, which makes magic feel spammy.
• Progression feels a lot more linear/streamlined. Magic doesn't feel all that magical as it's mixed with the rest of the talents, and the loss of non-class talents feels restrictive.
• One of D&D's signature elements is a magic system that's kind of chaotic and has entirely its own rules and mechanics. Merging that into the level-up talent trees blands it down.

Overall:

• The mechanical changes are mostly bad. The game feels streamlined and simplified in a bad way. Less thought is needed to play it, I just need to focus on the current combat and nothing else, and there appears to be less freedom to build my characters like I want them, despite the mass of subclasses and multi-class combinations.
• The QoL improvements are mostly good and the UI -- especially character creation and level-up -- is way better.
• The stealth system rocks.

Finally, a comment on the language -- certainly too late to change now, but anyway for what it's worth: I interact daily with people from literally all over the world, and nobody talks like that. The Russians don't go "Da, today is very nice day, harasho nyet?" and the French don't go "Oui mon ami, indeed the weather today is la belle." It's cool that you've got a conlang but there's way too much of "That kamahima has tipu my raumanuma, if I ever catch him he's going to be kaunahini!" It's grating, and the hypertext kind of underlines the "Look at how clever we are" aspect of it.

When Prime Junta is Sensuki 2.0 you know this game is crap.

 

[FreeKaner]

the hyperlink stuff is good, so shut the fuck up

It's the antithesis of show, don't tell. I hate it.

That's not what "show, don't tell" is. Hint, "show" and "tell" in that phrase both refers to writing.

 

[Frusciante]

Pasting a comment I made on the Obsidz beta forums:


The bad, however:

• Health/Endurance ---> Health only is a loss. Since there's no strategic cost, I don't care about taking some damage, which makes the game feel less "tactical."
• Everything per encounter is a loss. I don't care about which spell I should use now and which save for later, which makes magic feel spammy.
• Progression feels a lot more linear/streamlined. Magic doesn't feel all that magical as it's mixed with the rest of the talents, and the loss of non-class talents feels restrictive.
• One of D&D's signature elements is a magic system that's kind of chaotic and has entirely its own rules and mechanics. Merging that into the level-up talent trees blands it down.

Overall:

• The mechanical changes are mostly bad. The game feels streamlined and simplified in a bad way. Less thought is needed to play it, I just need to focus on the current combat and nothing else, and there appears to be less freedom to build my characters like I want them, despite the mass of subclasses and multi-class combinations.

Finally, a comment on the language -- certainly too late to change now, but anyway for what it's worth: I interact daily with people from literally all over the world, and nobody talks like that. The Russians don't go "Da, today is very nice day, harasho nyet?" and the French don't go "Oui mon ami, indeed the weather today is la belle." It's cool that you've got a conlang but there's way too much of "That kamahima has tipu my raumanuma, if I ever catch him he's going to be kaunahini!" It's grating, and the hypertext kind of underlines the "Look at how clever we are" aspect of it.

Personally, I do not care about the removal of the ''strategic aspect'', there are pro's to this as well. It allows better tailoring of individual encounters (because you know the player has access to all abilities).

On not caring about which spell to use; in a good magic system the situation should dictate which spell is best to cast. If you will always want to cast the same spell then yes, having limits per rest spells adds some strategic element. But if a magic system (and encounter design) is well done then this per rest element shouldn't be needed to make strategic choices emerge.

I agree partly on the progression. the remark on magic being mixed with other talents seems a bit superficial and in the end unimportant. But I agree that especially single class, non-caster characters have less interesting choices to make now.

My biggest concerns are:
- combat is way too fast
- combat is still very chaotic and it's hard to see what's going on

I had hoped that there would be improvements to the feel of combat but so far it's not really noticeable yet.

 

[Prime Junta]

Personally, I do not care about the removal of the ''strategic aspect'', there are pro's to this as well. It allows better tailoring of individual encounters (because you know the player has access to all abilities).

This is true. It also makes the world feel more like a series of set-pieces designed for your benefit than something with a life of its own. The loss far outweighs the gain IMO.

 

[ArchAngel]

Personally, I do not care about the removal of the ''strategic aspect'', there are pro's to this as well. It allows better tailoring of individual encounters (because you know the player has access to all abilities).

This is true. It also makes the world feel more like a series of set-pieces designed for your benefit than something with a life of its own. The loss far outweighs the gain IMO.

Nah it does not. It creates less options. In BG when you were left without renewable resources and didn't want to rest spam you would use consumable resources like potions, scrolls and wands.

In Tyranny (which is what PoE 2 will be closer to) you almost never need to use those resources (except healing potions near start when you don't have enough people with healing spells).

 

[fobia]

Wow. The removal and/or integration of general feats really sucks.
Boeroer knows his stuff, one of the best if not the best poster on the official forums when it comes to character builds.
I'm not sure how much influence on character building it would have though, if general feats made a comeback.
It seems the design focus is on builds within sub- and multiclass system.

Thanks for the feedback for us non-beta backers!

 

[Elex]

maybe you obtain better encouter, but only that, and other aspect become worse.

if there is no long/medium term resource management then it’s better to think a different resource system and not one based around rest/number of use.

also i don’t see a character as a single entity but as a part of a group so i don’t see the point in give each character tons of abilities/modals/skills.

it’s like if the game go in the mmorpg direction.

 

[Cross]

It's cool that you've got a conlang but there's way too much of "That kamahima has tipu my raumanuma, if I ever catch him he's going to be kaunahini!" It's grating, and the hypertext kind of underlines the "Look at how clever we are" aspect of it.

Please tell me that they aren't using Tyranny's shitty hyperlink dialogue...

the hyperlink stuff is good, so shut the fuck up

It's not. It's the writers throwing their hands up and giving up on even trying to weave world building organically into the game.

 

[ArchAngel]

It's cool that you've got a conlang but there's way too much of "That kamahima has tipu my raumanuma, if I ever catch him he's going to be kaunahini!" It's grating, and the hypertext kind of underlines the "Look at how clever we are" aspect of it.

Please tell me that they aren't using Tyranny's shitty hyperlink dialogue...

the hyperlink stuff is good, so shut the fuck up

It's not. It's the writers throwing their hands up and giving up on even trying to weave world building organically into the game.

It is still better than what PoE or WL2 gave us.

BG games had it best. Only rare NPCs would talk about some lore with you, the rest you could read yourself from books.

 

[Hellion]

It might not be an ideal solution, but at least it's better than exposition and info dumps dressed as dialogue.

 

[Cross]

It's cool that you've got a conlang but there's way too much of "That kamahima has tipu my raumanuma, if I ever catch him he's going to be kaunahini!" It's grating, and the hypertext kind of underlines the "Look at how clever we are" aspect of it.

Please tell me that they aren't using Tyranny's shitty hyperlink dialogue...

the hyperlink stuff is good, so shut the fuck up

It's not. It's the writers throwing their hands up and giving up on even trying to weave world building organically into the game.

It is still better than what PoE or WL2 gave us.

Something can be bad while still being better than something else that's bad.

 

[Prime Junta]

BG games had it best. Only rare NPCs would talk about some lore with you, the rest you could read yourself from books.

They're not talking lore. They're just sprinkling pseudo-Maori in their dialogue. "Pekehu! That karame stole the hikipu from the kamahamu by the ranga's humuhumumu." Instead of "Damn straight, that son-of-a-bitch stole the fruit from the hut by the chieftain's house."

Spoiler

Making up the words as I don't yet remember Josh's Hawa'i'i'i'ia'a'an by he'a'art.

Spoiler

I'm not 100% opposed to some local colour in the dialogue but it has to make sense. "Ranga" for example is perfectly fine as it's a title, but "Pekehu" instead of "Yes" is just stilted.

Spoiler

I mean really people, "yes" and "no" are the first words you learn when picking up a new language.

 

[Grunker]

Sorry Prime Junta!

 

[Ruzen]

First one is slow, this one is fast. How come they can't find a sweet spot for combat. It's like characters swinging a wooden sword.

 

[Grunker]

"That kamahima has tipu my raumanuma, if I ever catch him he's going to be kaunahini!" It's grating, and the hypertext kind of underlines the "Look at how clever we are" aspect of it.

 

[Infinitron]

Infinitron Is it time yet for me to start quoting my posts from many months ago and gloating about being right, or should I wait a little while?

Well, they're essentially upset that character building works more like the original AD&D Infinity Engine games. This is not necessarily something that will bother you.

 

[Prime Junta]

Well, they're essentially upset that the character building mechanics are more like the original AD&D Infinity Engine games.

Damn straight. Character building in P1 was a huuuuge improvement over any version of D&D, this is several steps back.

 

[Grunker]

Yeah it sucks but isn't that exactly what the detractors wanted..? Make up your mind.

Character building in P1 was a huuuuge improvement over any version of D&D, this is several steps back.

lol no fight me bro

(It's a strict improvement over AD&D tho)

 

[FreeKaner]

Thus comes the Sensukiesque downfall of the PoE community, at the hands of the Butcher Sawyer.

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah it sucks but isn't that exactly what the detractors wanted..? Make up your mind.

Well not all of them. Pretty sure even Sensuki admits that character building is inherently better in PoE. But if you do enjoy the Infinity Engine games, this can't be the factor that makes the game not fun or bad for you. And they had unlimited resting too.

 

[Grunker]

Yeah it sucks but isn't that exactly what the detractors wanted..? Make up your mind.

Well not all of them. Pretty sure even Sensuki admits that character building is inherently better in PoE.

Did not know this, is that true..? I recall him vehemently disagreeing with my assessment of AD&D.

 

[FreeKaner]

There is no reason for removal of general talents. I can understand removal of per rest abilities to keep multiclassed characters consistent, I can even understand removal of endurance/health mechanic to focus more on the tactical aspect of the encounters in line with removal of per rest abilities. However I have no understanding as to why the general talents would be removed, they were shared by all characters already. They also definitely need to add MORE class-based talents that directly interact with spells not remove them. Hopefully enough beta-testers will give this feedback so Josh reconsiders.

 

[Grotesque]

All I want to know if there is a walk toggle. The rest are details!

 

[ArchAngel]

BG games had it best. Only rare NPCs would talk about some lore with you, the rest you could read yourself from books.

They're not talking lore. They're just sprinkling pseudo-Maori in their dialogue. "Pekehu! That karame stole the hikipu from the kamahamu by the ranga's humuhumumu." Instead of "Damn straight, that son-of-a-bitch stole the fruit from the hut by the chieftain's house."

Spoiler

Making up the words as I don't yet remember Josh's Hawa'i'i'i'ia'a'an by he'a'art.

Spoiler

I'm not 100% opposed to some local colour in the dialogue but it has to make sense. "Ranga" for example is perfectly fine as it's a title, but "Pekehu" instead of "Yes" is just stilted.

Spoiler

I mean really people, "yes" and "no" are the first words you learn when picking up a new language.

That is now what this complaint was about. He complained about green text that gives you more info (about lore of the world) when you mouse over it.