Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Ivan]

per complanca?

 

[Lacrymas]

The point being, if the game is designed to allow characters to contribute to skill checks (the screenshot that showed this had the player character's Athletics as 4 and Eder's as 3 for an effective Athletics score of 7) then one character maxing out one skill likely won't get you everything. If your PC has 20 resolve and the highest any party members have is 10 then you're still failing a Resolve check of 31.

This is ridiculously nonsensical to implement, the skill is still based on your character because you can't change your companions' attributes, with very few alterations based on what companions you have (but it would still average out between 5 of them). It just adds this bloated middle-man to the whole ordeal without contributing anything meaningful. It also prevents solo playthroughs because you can't pass any of the checks on your own.

 

[Efe]

you mean things that take group effort to overcome are actually impossible alone?

 

[Jezal_k23]

People like their soloing. Best not to mess with it.

 

[TT1]

per complanca?

I think its like "you dont aprove of our methods? Please. At least we have ambition".

"For god sake", "give me a break", "have complacency"

 

[Lacrymas]

Not only that, but it also turns your character into a generic PC you can hire at any inn.

 

[Efe]

aside from the watchery, main character is no different from generic pc you can hire at adventurer's hall.
it only stops being generic the moment you start making decisions. hell, isn't this the whole point of reputation/alignment system?

 

[Lacrymas]

And we come to the root of the problem (and the problem of RPGs in general) - your character is only not generic when their, and *only* their, stats are taken into consideration within this context. That is the genesis of video game roleplaying. It gives your PC a reason to exist. Everything else is missing the point and companions using their stats to pass checks is a perversion (unless you go the NWN2 route where it makes sense). It requires a few deviations (like lockpicking chests or pickpocketing when not used in dialogue, a few other gameplay ones), but those can be arranged quite easily.

 

[TT1]

The five suns are Vailian, for sure. Maybe we'll pass through the Vailian Republics, before reach the Deadfire Archipelago?

 

[Sentinel]

The five suns are Vailian, for sure. Maybe we'll pass through the Vailian Republics, before reach the Deadfire Archipelago?

Hope we can genocide the entire population.

 

[Quillon]

For scripted interactions, wasn't in PoE the system was always checking an individual's skills and attributes? After reading above stuff I can't be sure. IIRC one character can push a wall down with only his athletics but whose stats were relevant when the whole party could climb up to some place or jump above a gap? Again with an individual's, like watchers? or the whole group's average? For certain interactions, average stats sounds logical to me, at this momento.

 

[Sentinel]

For scripted interactions, wasn't in PoE the system was always checking an individual's skills and attributes? After reading above stuff I can't be sure. IIRC one character can push a wall down with only his athletics but whose stats were relevant when the whole party could climb up to some place or jump above a gap? Again with an individual's, like watchers? or the whole group's average? For certain interactions, average stats sounds logical to me, at this momento.

In PoE it was the individual's stats IIRC.

 

[Rivmusique]

Republics and Rautai are both moving to claim parts of the Deadfire Archipelago and pissing off the locals? A companion to represent each of them? Maybe they've heard that people wanted some inter-party conflict, and these guys eventually attack each other. Those three factions could be the CK/Doemenels/Dozens of this game, but hopefully more relevant to the entire story, where you are strongly encouraged to pick one to help with your quest. Having companions to represent them would be great.

 

[Maculo]

I am curious how PoE2 will handle soulbound weapons and equipment. My priest currently has Abydon's Hammer, the 4+ intellect ring, the 4+ dexterity ring, and the 4+ might helm. On one hand, it was funny torching the Alpine Dragon and Concelhaut with Shining Beacon and Divine Storm(apparently Shining Beacon stacks?). On the other hand, starting with all those items could screw up the difficulty curve.

 

[Sentinel]

I am curious how PoE2 will handle soulbound weapons and equipment. My priest currently has Abydon's Hammer, the 4+ intellect ring, the 4+ dexterity ring, and the 4+ might helm. On one hand, it was funny torching the Alpine Dragon and Concelhaut with Shining Beacon and Divine Storm(apparently Shining Beacon stacks?). On the other hand, starting with all those items could screw up the difficulty curve.

"Your party was laywaid by enemies and couldn't defend themselves."

 

[Nephologist]

I am curious how PoE2 will handle soulbound weapons and equipment. My priest currently has Abydon's Hammer, the 4+ intellect ring, the 4+ dexterity ring, and the 4+ might helm. On one hand, it was funny torching the Alpine Dragon and Concelhaut with Shining Beacon and Divine Storm(apparently Shining Beacon stacks?). On the other hand, starting with all those items could screw up the difficulty curve.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BagOfSpilling

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I'm not sure how I feel about the "group skill checks" approach. Let me ramble on for a second here. Fluent's Yammer skill activated!!

I was thinking about this recently. I was curious if the Perception skill in Lords of Xulima stacks, i.e. 2 points from my Mage, 5 from my Thief would equal 7 for the total party check. But it doesn't work that way in the game. Instead, it seems that each character's Perception is worthwhile because it will trigger different random finds. Sometimes you will find a bag of gold, or some herbs based on your Perception skill, beyond the obvious spotting traps and what not. I think it would be cool if each class had their own Perception finds as well, but this is a side-note. For example, maybe a mage could find scrolls on the ground, or potions or something, as well as the occasional bag of gold or herbs. And maybe a warrior would find a random helmet off to the side (you wouldn't want this happening all the time as if all this stuff is just laying around everywhere), but you get the idea. Class-unique perception checks could be interesting, I think.

As for every character in the party covering all the skill checks, that's fine, but the important part is that the skill checks aren't 100% doable in every situation. In other words, it's okay for the Hard Ass (Wasteland 2) character to be able to jump into a convo to threaten the person you're talking to, but at every turn the skill checks should not always be easy. There should be a reasonable amount of checks you simply aren't capable of doing unless you have really invested heavily into the certain skill. High skill checks that you have to return to much later as well are interesting, because it gives you the thought of, "Ooh, I bet *this* thing is going to be really cool! I wonder what it will lead to...". Maybe it can lead to a new quest, or item, or some content of some kind. I also think part of the fun and replayability factor is when the party CAN'T do certain things on the first playthrough. In other words, you can re-roll a new character later and try a different route, or some different skills that you didn't use in the first run. I also like having those hard skill checks intermingled in there so you have a reason and motivation to continue investing heavily in the skill, with some of the very hardest skill checks being reserved for the highest skill. So high that you might not even be able to reach it in your current playthrough, but in a future one you might and you will get an equally high reward. This adds a sort of mysterious quality to the game as well, giving you the thought that there is some really high-level, cool things to try in a future run. Of course, on your current run there should be high skill checks as well for the type of character you have rolled.

Not sure if any of that makes sense, but there you go. I think characters being able to jump in on a conversation with a skill check is not a terrible idea. I would also like to see a modern RPG try the Temple of Elemental Evil way, where different NPCs say different things based on who talks to them. I think that also adds a unique element that may be harder to pull off, a bit more obscure as well, but the reward for "figuring it out" is very high and unlike other RPG experiences. They could add a few more clues to certain situations as well, i.e. you find some Barbarian class NPC in the wilderness who refuses to talk to anyone who's not "worthy" and as high in strength as him. So, you select your strong warrior character and talk to the NPC again and an invisible skill check happens. If your character is strong enough, the NPC responds positively and comments on how strong you are, continuing whatever it is that NPC had, be it an entirely new quest, or something that leads to new content, etc. If the skill check fails, rather than just saying "Get out of my face, weakling!", the Barbarian will say something that's like a clue to the character to come back when he or she is stronger, i.e. You are not impressive enough to talk to me yet..etc. But this sort of thing could be really cool and give an entirely new experience, IMO.

Yammer skill deactivated. *Cough, cough* I was pressing the buttons to fill my lungs.

 

[Quillon]

I think characters being able to jump in on a conversation with a skill check is not a terrible idea.

But it changes a game fundamentally, you are not only you anymore you're a hive mind now. I am all for companion interjections and its consequences but I wouldn't want to choose what they say or should they say it in my "single character RPG". A companion can interject, my character can either support or reject his view or be neutral or remain silent whatever and the outcome should always depend on my character's stats vs the companion's and/or the NPC we're talking to.

Which is why I don't like WL2 very much.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

But it changes a game fundamentally, you are not only you anymore you're a hive mind now. I am all for companion interjections and its consequences but I wouldn't want to choose what they say or should they say it in my "single character RPG". A companion can interject, my character can either support or reject his view or be neutral or remain silent whatever and the outcome should always depend on my character's stats vs the companion's and/or the NPC we're talking to.

Which is why I don't like WL2 very much.

Wasteland 2 and games like it aren't single-character RPGs, though. In a game like that when you create your starting party and recruit NPCs later, their skills have to matter, too. Essentially if the system is designed well you're not going to miss much other than the fact you didn't select your Hard Ass character to talk to the NPC, instead you initiated dialogue with whatever character and then the skill check opportunities presented themselves. I view it as a group conversation, i.e. you are a party, so rather than just have the leader talk to everyone and the others stay mute, they can interject things as well. If you look at it that way then the Hard Ass or slick-talking character can find their opportunity to flex their skill by interjecting when they feel it's a good idea.

 

[Quillon]

Yeah. I don't like WL2 very much cos its not a single character RPG. Heard its going to change in WL3 tho.

 

[Reinhardt]

Those three factions could be the CK/Doemenels/Dozens of this game, but hopefully more relevant to the entire story, where you are strongly encouraged to pick one to help with your quest. Having companions to represent them would be great.

I've seen this in Tyranny. And in the and your choices doesn't matter anyway.

 

[Sizzle]

I am curious how PoE2 will handle soulbound weapons and equipment. My priest currently has Abydon's Hammer, the 4+ intellect ring, the 4+ dexterity ring, and the 4+ might helm. On one hand, it was funny torching the Alpine Dragon and Concelhaut with Shining Beacon and Divine Storm(apparently Shining Beacon stacks?). On the other hand, starting with all those items could screw up the difficulty curve.

Thinking about this, if they decide to get rid of all the equipment, there are some ways they could tie that to the seafaring plot.

For example: the game starts with you on the boat, with all your hard hoarded fancy items (if you imported the save, or else a nice selection of class-specific equipment - similar to how Throne of Bhall did it), there's a storm/attack/whatever, and the ship starts sinking. And then you have a choice (maybe depending on your Might/Athletics score) on how many pieces of loot you can save, while the rest of them will go down with the ship. Maybe later on in the game you could even retrieve some of them from the sunken wreckage.

Something similar to this was done in Realms of Arkania III - Shadows Over Riva when you were in the underwater kingdom.

 

[Turjan]

And if you are too greedy, you drown. Dying during character creation, in good old Traveller fashion.

 

[Infinitron]

Here are two fanmade maps of Eora I hadn't seen before:

 

[Lacrymas]

Why would they get rid of our equipment? I haven't played WM yet, so maybe there's a narrative explanation (what are soulbound items?)? BG2 didn't get rid of your equipment.