Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Ninjerk]

I think Dashiell Hammett, in response to criticism of his work being focused on the masses, once said, "More peanuts get sold than caviar." I think that circles back round to the point of marketing caviar and producing peanuts.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I don't know... I think if you expect literary quality from a videogame's writing, you only have yourself to blame when you end up disappointed. Those guys are doing their best, and that is their best. Manage your expectations.

 

[Ninjerk]

Just speaking for myself, I expected something in the realm of what Chris Avellone and Obsidian have shown themselves capable of before and was sorely disappointed (and I'm not even touching on gameplay). I'm considering purchasing the WM combo and giving the gameplay, at least, another chance since they've been diligently working on the game in the meantime.

 

[CptMace]

Gonna have to disagree, guys.

You can't really expect facebook's crowd to appreciate Tarkovsky's movies or Kafka's writings. But these are the artists that have been affecting other good creators for decades.

Is anybody here claiming that the vast majority understand Kubrick's or Kundera's works? Plato? Do they even have a fighting chance? Cpt Mace, are you claiming that Dan Brown is somehow superior to Tolstoy?

This is not a matter of ideology, btw. It is what it is. Popular success can happen for great (with a lasting influence) works as well, but only as an exception to the rule.

Dat stewpid stewpid fasbok crowd amirite ?
Anybody can understand anything given they're interested in it. If somebody doesn't get into Kafka, chances are he's not into philosophy, which is the case of a great deal of people. I frankly have yet to meet somebody who's into philosophy and doesn't understand Kafka, Nietzsche or Rousseau. The very point of philosophy is to clarify concepts/ideas. A good philosopher is someone that does it well. You're denying the existence of the XIXth century Europe right there.
NB : yeah as i felt, i confused kafka and kant again. Owell, i'll leave the message as it is anyway.
Now maybe you're confused with another fact, the fact we leave in a fucking desperately debilitating and mentally creepling world. People would rather watch Top Gear than read anything and some even think reading is hard. Doesn't mean they couldn't if they wanted to.

Now, that wasn't even remotely what Fenstermaker (whatever his name is) had in mind anyway. He was implying that most people were unable to read what's considered to be references. That's a stupid statement.

Many of what are widely considered the greatest works of literature of all time are so dense with words that they are unreadable to much if not most of the population.

So dense with words guys ! Brains gonna melt !

 

[covr]

Does POE scale quest XP dependent on your level? I'm doing the main questline in Defiance bay quickly after getting up to level 8 in White March 1... I'd swear the quest rewards are less... at least I hope so. I always thought that quest scaling ruined POE, but if lower level quests give less xp to higher level characters, I'll have to eat that thought...

So, is the quest xp scaled?

Yes, I've read it somewhere on the Codex.

EDIT: I believe it was a JES quote. Or some other Obs developer.

 

[Trashos]

Just speaking for myself, I expected something in the realm of what Chris Avellone and Obsidian have shown themselves capable of before and was sorely disappointed (and I'm not even touching on gameplay). I'm considering purchasing the WM combo and giving the gameplay, at least, another chance since they've been diligently working on the game in the meantime.

I think that PoE does have some really good parts and interesting writing. So I personally don't call it dissapointing, I liked it. The execution is just uneven (good parts alternating with bland parts, brilliant parts alternating with cringeworthy parts). PST was more reliable with maintaining high standards, I agree with that.

I don't know... I think if you expect literary quality from a videogame's writing, you only have yourself to blame when you end up disappointed. Those guys are doing their best, and that is their best. Manage your expectations.

I am trying to manage my expectations and I do understand that a videogame is a different medium with different needs and goals. There is a lot I enjoy in PoE (eg, the Thaos-Lady Webb meeting was nicely executed, the Hunter Brother quest was interesting to go through etc).

But they didn't always do their best. Eric F admitted himself in his message that he dumped down the Maerwald part to cater for lower attention span players. That part of the story had great potential, but it ended up garbage. They can't expect me to appreciate that.

Dat stewpid stewpid fasbok crowd amirite ?

Well, I don't hate them or anything, but they (their majority) belong to a different consumer group than I do.

Anybody can understand anything given they're interested in it. If somebody doesn't get into Kafka, chances are he's not into philosophy, which is the case of a great deal of people. I frankly have yet to meet somebody who's into philosophy and doesn't understand Kafka, Nietzsche or Rousseau. The very point of philosophy is to clarify concepts/ideas. A good philosopher is someone that does it well. You're denying the existence of the XIXth century Europe right there.
NB : yeah as i felt, i confused kafka and kant again. Owell, i'll leave the message as it is anyway.
Now maybe you're confused with another fact, the fact we leave in a fucking desperately debilitating and mentally creepling world. People would rather watch Top Gear than read anything and some even think reading is hard. Doesn't mean they couldn't if they wanted to.

I don't agree. It is very hard to test seriously (and anyone who tries is going to have his career prematurely finished as well), but I can draw some parallels:
Engineering/Math can be complicated and too challenging for some. Why can't literature/philosophy be?
Competitive sports can be too hard for many. Why can't reading be?

The above examples indicate that, while we all can train and improve in something we are interested in, everyone has their own limitations. I won't be Michael Jordan no matter how hard I train or want to.

I haven't attended a philosophy school and it isn't my occupation, it a is hobby for me. But philosophy isn't there just to clarify, it also has to provide new concepts! I see no reason why philosophical concepts can't be too challenging for some (regardless of their interest), as mathematics or sports can be.

I think it is all much simpler if we talk about attention spans instead of intelligence or interests. For whatever reason, some people have longer attention spans and can watch Odyssey 2001 with sincere interest, while others have shorter attention spans and need an explosion every 3 seconds to keep awake. Obsidian seem to be a bit confused right now as to who they should be catering for.

 

[CptMace]

We're going circle now. I could argue that attention span depends on the interest you have of something. I have a short attention span for a football game, I have more attention for history lessons.
I consider it's the same for mathemathics. And I actually think philosophy and maths are very, very similar, and am not the only one to think so.

But again, we'd go in circle. We disagree on that, t'is all.

I haven't attended a philosophy school and it isn't my occupation, it a is hobby for me. But philosophy isn't there just to clarify, it also has to provide new concepts!

Indeed. But I could argue that, like the sculptor claims the sculpture is already in the stone, the concepts are already in nature and the philosopher just sculpts them out. And he builds/demonstrates/elaborates his theories the same way the mathematician does for his own ie through logics.

 

[Bleed the Man]

I just brought Aloth to the delemgan sisters in Twin Elms for the first time and... he kinda spoils the twist without reason? I spoke to the delemgan sisters and then Aloth comes to terms with his awkenening, but out of the blue, he says that the delemgan sisters mentioned something about the gods not being real, despite hadn't read anything in the dialogue that even implied it.

Considering this is old news, does anybody know why it happens? Have I missed some dialogue option and it's simply weird scripting?

 

[Roguey]

we did a creature audit about a month ago and the number of shadows/shades/spectres/phantoms was through the roof.

when we did our act 3 cleanup pass, i tried to remove more spirits than anything else.
...
it wasn't any one designer, specifically. area designers often use spirits (including the various elementals) because they're easier to rationalize being in a lot of locations. they just wound up being used in too many places in large numbers.

ToEE: bugbears
PoE: spirits

 

[Infinitron]

I just brought Aloth to the delemgan sisters in Twin Elms for the first time and... he kinda spoils the twist without reason? I spoke to the delemgan sisters and then Aloth comes to terms with his awkenening, but out of the blue, he says that the delemgan sisters mentioned something about the gods not being real, despite hadn't read anything in the dialogue that even implied it.

Considering this is old news, does anybody know why it happens? Have I missed some dialogue option and it's simply weird scripting?

That doesn't make any sense, you can't leave the pit after learning that so why would that dialogue even exist

Are you sure you understood it correctly?

 

[Bleed the Man]

I just brought Aloth to the delemgan sisters in Twin Elms for the first time and... he kinda spoils the twist without reason? I spoke to the delemgan sisters and then Aloth comes to terms with his awkenening, but out of the blue, he says that the delemgan sisters mentioned something about the gods not being real, despite hadn't read anything in the dialogue that even implied it.

Considering this is old news, does anybody know why it happens? Have I missed some dialogue option and it's simply weird scripting?

That doesn't make any sense, you can't leave the pit after learning that so why would that dialogue even exist

Are you sure you understood it correctly?

Maybe is a remnant from an old version of the script? But if it was they would've fix it by now.

 

[Infinitron]

Huh. Maybe there's a hint in their dialogue that you didn't notice...or maybe this is worth asking somebody on the Obsidian forums about.

 

[Trashos]

There is definitely a path through the dialogue where you don't learn the spoiler (and Aloth's comment seems out of place), because I have noticed that too. Not sure about all paths though.

Unless you want to wait until the weekend when I 'll be able to test it.

 

[Sizzle]

The first time I went through that dialogue with the delemagan's, I didn't have Aloth with me, and I honestly don't remember them mentioning that (though by that point I skimmed through a lot of the dialogue in the game, even though I exhausted all the dialogue options with them), it was just after reading about his reaction on some forum that I brought him along on a subsequent run and saw that.

 

[Bleed the Man]

There is definitely a path through the dialogue where you don't learn the spoiler (and Aloth's comment seems out of place), because I have noticed that too. Not sure about all paths though.

Unless you want to wait until the weekend when I 'll be able to test it.

I've done the conversation with the delemgan sisters three times, choosing different options, and I haven't seen any mention of the gods in that way, and I don't see how any option you can choose will bring you to that sort of reveal.

I'll ask in the Obsidian forums.

 

[Rivmusique]

I've also wondered about this. I only saw that conversation on my second time through and felt certain that on my first playthrough I didn't see anyone bring up "gods aren't real" until act IV. Could not be bothered reloading to check the conversation though, takes so damn long.

Edit: decided to have a look at it again. They mention that the court of penitents was made for those souls that refused to acknowledge the gods, it could just be that. Convo with Aloth still seems odd, like he is saying that the Delemgan thought that the gods were fake, or that they suggested it could be the case.

 

[Seaking4]

Just finished the first part of TWM and it was certainly hard. I have no idea how I beat that last fight but I got Eder to take some potions and he just withstood a pounding by like 7 people while I whittled their numbers down. I couldn't recreate whatever happened in that fight even if I tried (the result included). There was lots of resting and for the first time I had to leave and get more camping supplies. I'd be eager to see how large some of these mobs would be in path of the damned.

Anyways, there are still some fights I haven't finished (one of the bounties and the vampire fight) so I'll be doing that before I start part two.

 

[AN4RCHID]

The final fight is Durgan's Battery is tough, but I had an even harder time with that ambush right before it. Fucking Sirens man. Immediately on starting the battle my tanks get abducted across the map, my damage dealers get paralyzed, and then a dozen ghosts teleport into melee range of my casters

 

[Seaking4]

Ya I completely screwed that fight by baiting them all back to a doorway. Otherwise it was just brutal. I was tired of resting because I kept having to use the Priest spell to prevent paralysis (I only had 2 per rest). It felt like payback for spamming the paralysis chant with Kana earlier in the game.

Edit: Just stumbled on the dragon. Edit 2: Who cares about the Dragon... The things from the last X-Men movie just fucked my shit repeatedly.

 

[Sizzle]

A new JS interview:

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.c...awyer-on-Wrapping-Up-Pillars-of-Eternity.html

 

[LESS T_T]

He also joined an hour USGamer RPG podcast interview:

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

A new JS interview:

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.c...awyer-on-Wrapping-Up-Pillars-of-Eternity.html

Jesus what a boring interview. The only info I came away with is that that interviewer is either supremely unengaged or simply a bit of a dullard.

 

[Sizzle]

A new JS interview:

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.c...awyer-on-Wrapping-Up-Pillars-of-Eternity.html

Jesus what a boring interview. The only info I came away with is that that interviewer is either supremely unengaged or simply a bit of a dullard.

I see what you did there

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

 

[agris]

I just saw this siege of dragonspear screenshot and it reminded me of how deserted defiance bay was. did obsidian ever say what the 'technical problem' was that limited the number of actors on the screen? yes I know it induced slowdowns, but why?

a real city