Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Dorateen]

Just about. I need to settle a score with the Alpine Dragon, and then I'll finish up to see what the deal is with this Thaos character.

 

[Darth Roxor]

adra dergon was the only good part of pillars

i bet they've nerfed it since then because it wasnt balanced

 

[Infinitron]

adra dergon was the only good part of pillars

i bet they've nerfed it since then because it wasnt balanced

On the contrary, it's been granted immunity to Prone.

 

[Infinitron]

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=11#post454984878

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

adra dergon was the only bad part of pillars

i bet they've nerfed it since then because it wasnt balanced

Fixd.

 

[Dorateen]

The point I was making is that the high level content of the White March, namely Cragholdt Bluffs and the Alpine Dragon, is better crafted than the high level content of base Pillars.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Weird that you say this when AwesomeButton is talking about something that definitely isn't from the Infinity Engine nor tabletop.

Fact: If the original IE games had used the same action-duration system that PoE uses and Josh Sawyer had decided to streamline it down to constant duration for everything like AwesomeButton is asking for, every grognard in the universe would have been screaming bloody murder.

I agree with tdphys, and my impression also is that Sawyer really does his best to gather impressions from players and QA, I just wish I knew things would go this way in advance, so I could start playing the game when it's actually playable. Instead, I played the alpha, which they called beta, and then the beta, which they called a release, for one year and spoiled much of the fun. But on the other hand there is no other way to give the input Sawyer uses to improve the game, unless you spoil the game for yourself. I still keep my hopes that 3.0 will be enjoyable with the IE mod.

 

[Roguey]

I just wish I knew things would go this way in advance, so I could start playing the game when it's actually playable.

I've been saying this is how it'd go since forever.

 

[Infinitron]

I've been saying this is how it'd go since forever.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-go-to-new-thread.93694/page-308#post-3712560

 

[Drudkh]

Jesus... that persons post about Animancers... Getting feedback from folks on that forum is useless

 

[tdphys]

Weird that you say this when AwesomeButton is talking about something that definitely isn't from the Infinity Engine nor tabletop.

Fact: If the original IE games had used the same action-duration system that PoE uses and Josh Sawyer had decided to streamline it down to constant duration for everything like AwesomeButton is asking for, every grognard in the universe would have been screaming bloody murder.

I agree with tdphys, and my impression also is that Sawyer really does his best to gather impressions from players and QA, I just wish I knew things would go this way in advance, so I could start playing the game when it's actually playable. Instead, I played the alpha, which they called beta, and then the beta, which they called a release, for one year and spoiled much of the fun. But on the other hand there is no other way to give the input Sawyer uses to improve the game, unless you spoil the game for yourself. I still keep my hopes that 3.0 will be enjoyable with the IE mod.

I'm actually looking forward to playing 3.0 and the expansions, it's almost like a new game

If anything.. this all hopefully bodes well for Pillars 2.0... I just really hope that pathfinding and engagement get fixed/changed for 2.0.... anybody want to engage in a JES lobby campaign to see this happen? I figure all it would take is a simple mockup engine with good pathfinding -- and some kind of examples of RTWP game play that we'd like to see instead -- then we can get sensuki to spam SA and we can all bomb Josh's twitter account till he plays the stuff and is converted. we just have to start now so it gets in before the end of POE 2.0 v. 3.0.

I know there's a bunch of decent open 2d rts engines out there... something has to have better stuff then POE does.

 

[Infinitron]

anybody want to engage in a JES lobby campaign to see this happen?...we can all bomb Josh's twitter account

lol, what kind of forum do you think you're on

I've done plenty of campaigning personally, however, with some results. But, my position on engagement is that it needs to have its defensive tactical role clarified and focused, rather than the arbitrary "muh RTS tactical movement - trying to solve a turn-based problem" arguments commonly seen among anti-engagers

 

[prodigydancer]

my attitude towards engagement is that it needs to have its defensive tactical role clarified and focused, rather than the arbitrary and unpersuasive "muh RTS tactical movement - trying to solve a turn-based problem"

I'll never accept engagement the way it's currently implemented. If it were just a +hit/+damage bonus for the next regular attack, it'd be perfectly OK with me. But magical instant attack that just happens for absolutely no reason? NO. WAY.

 

[Sensuki]

If anything.. this all hopefully bodes well for Pillars 2.0... I just really hope that pathfinding and engagement get fixed/changed for 2.0.... anybody want to engage in a JES lobby campaign to see this happen?

It was recently discussed on Something Awful that they might change how it works for the sequel, I'm sure the discussion will come up again. Josh was still a bit iffy about the idea removing it because there are people who like it, but you never know.

No chance of removal for PE1 tho

 

[ArchAngel]

my attitude towards engagement is that it needs to have its defensive tactical role clarified and focused, rather than the arbitrary and unpersuasive "muh RTS tactical movement - trying to solve a turn-based problem"

I'll never accept engagement the way it's currently implemented. If it were just a +hit/+damage bonus for the next regular attack, it'd be perfectly OK with me. But magical instant attack that just happens for absolutely no reason? NO. WAY.

I would prefer if it only slowed down the movement. So it still has a role, just it is not a murder for non defense-focused characters and not a penalty when you do just little movement when fighting pathfinding.

 

[Roguey]

we're probably going to be launching the beta for 3.0 this week. we didn't get much feedback during our last patch beta so hopefully this one will go a little better. there are a lot of changes in it so if you'd like to check it out that would be cool.

Josh reeling from the "you went too far with immunities" feedback.

But magical instant attack that just happens for absolutely no reason?

There's a reason, you started moving and gave 'em an opening. The lack of animation is due to budget. Combat visuals are abstract.

 

[tdphys]

we're probably going to be launching the beta for 3.0 this week. we didn't get much feedback during our last patch beta so hopefully this one will go a little better. there are a lot of changes in it so if you'd like to check it out that would be cool.

Josh reeling from the "you went too far with immunities" feedback.

But magical instant attack that just happens for absolutely no reason?

There's a reason, you started moving and gave 'em an opening. The lack of animation is due to budget. Combat visuals are abstract.

No, there was no "lack" of animation, it was a horrible immersion breaking piece of animation garbage. You can't animate an instantaneous attack, only put an ugly swooping place holder to indicate something bad *instantaneously* happened. It breaks the action economy... it's not good for any kind of understandable real-time tactics. I dare anybody here to try and play with the auto-stop on engage off and see if they can predict when and how their players will proc engagement auto attacks. You can't expect humans to analyze exact distances in real-time. That's what the *quantized* grid is for, and why engagement/opportunity attacks work in table-top. They don't translate.

#1 Rule for RTWP:

1. every character action (spells, attacks ) should have a lead up animation states/lead ins that are clear and indicative. ( I don't think things like DOTA 2's AXE's counter helix have any place in a more tactical sim)

2. Character Instant Reactions should only be passive changes of state (prone, stunned, slowed, etc).

3. You shouldn't mix 1 and 2 because you'll end up with horrible things like POE's engagement.

-- I think instant reactions could be used with effects like a counter spell shield bouncing spells back, or a reactive shield that blasts your foes when they hit.... but character actions/animations should never ever be instant..

 

[Roguey]

You can't animate an instantaneous attack, only put an ugly swooping place holder to indicate something bad *instantaneously* happened.

Sure you can, Josh said the attacks would have been ghosted.

 

[tdphys]

You can't animate an instantaneous attack, only put an ugly swooping place holder to indicate something bad *instantaneously* happened.

Sure you can, Josh said the attacks would have been ghosted.

What the heck is that supposed to mean? You have a semi-transparent model overlay the charecter and have it attack animation after the proc? I'd prefer what's there already.

 

[Roguey]

What the heck is that supposed to mean? You have a semi-transparent model overlay the charecter and have it attack animation after the proc? I'd prefer what's there already.

More expensive to do = better than

 

[Sensuki]

Sure you can, Josh said the attacks would have been ghosted.

Feedback but it doesn't make the mechanics any less bad.

 

[Sannom]

New descriptions for the companions' early gear :





Alright Obsidian, you see the Massuk Bow? This is why you need to bring back arrows and bolts and bullets!

 

[Sizzle]

Yay, Josh listened to my suggestion

 

[ArchAngel]

30% recovery penalty armor for a mage?! No thanks lol!

 

[Roguey]

Eld Aedyran is based on Old English with elements of Danish and Icelandic. Vailian is based on a mixture of Italian, French, and Occitan. The ancient Engwythan language (used by the previous residents of Eír Glanfath) is based on Cornish. Glanfathan (used by the current Glanfathan tribes) is based on Old Irish and contemporary Irish.

Who, between Sawyer and Fenstermaker, was responsible for this???

I can now definitively state Josh Sawyer with a source.

not even writing, it seems like even the guys designing combat interactions and gameplay systems were off the mark a lot of the time. its gotta be really hard to keep a unified vision for a team project!

it's more difficult with a new IP because there isn't an existing common volume of work that everyone can play through to have a shared understanding of how things are handled. even with rule systems, sometimes things get interpreted in strange ways between a document being authored/ideas being discussed and the rules actually being implemented.

this is the inevitable result of liberal, wishy washy "consensus building". every group needs a leader to make decisions and arbitrate disputes. the nation must work in concert under its fuehrer.

i developed the setting and systems and it wasn't done through consensus.