Incline Play Ashes 2063 and Ashes: Afterglow

[Be Kind Rewind]

imagine being this wrong

You would have to imagine, polecuck, because in reality and factually I'm right.

I did play through the entirety of Metro 2033 and Last Light, so I'm not saying that Ashes is the worst shooter experience I've ever had, but I am saying that what was good about Doom gradually got lost in the modding scene. Ashes is the current peak of straying from the simple but very well put together core design principles of Doom into modern goyslop. Whether you are into that or not is a matter of taste, which most Codexers lack.

Unlike the "people" cowardly rating my previous post without having anything to say to the contrary I can argue my position, so I will elaborate a bit. Since people have built up a cult following around this mod it might seem that I'm acting the contrarian or "trolling", but I'd have the same opinions if you'd have asked me about Doom a decade ago.

Doom was a very focused game, with every single part of the game feeding into this singular experience, but id Software, modders and the large parts of the audience disagree with what was established. To understand this conflict of views we must go back to 1994, to Edge's April issue and that much ridiculed review of Doom, here posted in full.

Edge's Doom Review

I'll quote choice parts for the ADHD reader and convenience to demonstrate this early rejection of the pure shooter.

That said, though, there are problems with the game (Edge has no intention of joining the rabble mindlessly praising Doom beyond its worth). Yes, it is good in fact it’s a very, very technically impressive piece of programming but where's the genuine 3D (look up and down) of Ultima Underworld? Where’s the variety in the gameplay (it’s all just kill, kill, kill)? And looking at it coldly, what is there really in Doom (apart from the graphics) to set it above even the most average, most highly repetitive and tedious 2D shoot ‘em up?

Okay, there are some visual touches in this game that will literally blow your mind like the scaling and parallax on the distant mountains - but then everyone said much the same about the hi-res images in The 7th Guest. They may look great, but what do you do with them? You don't ever get to explore those distant mountain ranges - they’re really little more than impressive padding (as in The 7th Guest, you’re just meant to watch them - in awe).

[...]

As it is, once the power of Doom's graphics has worn off (they're amazing, so give that at least a week or two), you’lI be longing for something new in this game.

lf only you could talk to these creatures, then perhaps you could try and make friends with them, form alliances... Now, that would be interesting.

Here we find, even in 1994, the drive towards the mess of elements that would become the shooter genre later on, the open world, conversation, why not shove in some RPG elements? A hunt for money and an in-game store, and weapon upgrades, and more shit to give your brain those goodfeels that you get when numbers go up? Attach more narrative, perhaps a turrent segment, large vehicle section, anything but the purity of shooting enemies in maze-like arenas, because the act of shooting is dull, or so the opposition, that is you, Roxor, seem to think.

There was a time when Doom fans took issue with the reloading of guns, because it cut into the rhythm of Doom, and in Ashes all gun require reloads. Just like in Rage you collect junk, smash boxes, and there are the large empty sections there simply to take up space. Just like in Metro ammunition is so rare that stealth kills, that absolute cancer on the genre, is encouraged. Press V to takedown. There is a dedicated key for melee and the knife is not a selectable weapon. Just like in Metro there are hubs when you get to read badly written conversations and buy things with your limited supplies. Even the shitty torchlight from Doom 3 makes a return in the rechargeable lantern.

12 years ago someone that appreciated Doom for its greatest qualities made a video to mock the cinematic shooter trend, but this is more or less what Ashes plays like.



There is even a scoped rifle with zoom to cover the large empty maps, along with the scripted cinematic events, and you're encouraged to walk slowly to not alert monsters just like in the parody above. Doom modding is now exactly what people used to mock. The supposed peak of Doom modding is undeniably an amateur version of Rage or Metro, and you can be a hypocrite about that if you want, disliking one and not the other, but when you now have a dedicated jump button and platforming sections it's a matter of fact that the experience of Doom is something very distant from this. In the end that reviewer won, dull conversations and "sidequests" are now a part of Doom, scavenging junk like Fallout 3 is now a core game loop. Not to mention that the storyline has completely taken over this porno.

After this dose of reality, Darth Suxxor, you can go back to your imagination where the Polish video game industry is worth a damn and modders aren't busy reinventing AAA goyslop in the original Doom engine.

 

[baturinsky]

Ashes is not a Doom mod. It's a game on gzdoom engine.

 

[Avonaeon]

Finished it. Overall I liked it because it's more or less more of the same, but it's definitely the weakest of the bunch. I really don't like you're going back to the spire yet again and I really wish it would explore some of the other places hinted at instead. Also don't like you're seemingly playing a different dude. Overall I like the idea of the dialogue faces, but some of them look a bit too "current year" and it took me out of it. Voice acting is hit and miss, but decent considering it's peeps doing this in their free time. Still a solid recommend, overall.

Also:

Spoiler

How do you get through the raider barricade without it turning into a slaughterhouse?

 

[f2a]

Be Kind Rewind again no need to be upset, everyone in this thread most likely loves Doom and has played it multiple times — some of us multiple times a year. We replay it indeed because “it was a very focused game”. I believe any kind of game developer can learn something by playing Doom, even if you don't like shooters: anything added by Id software was necessary in the game, the techincal feats were amazing at the time but what keeps players hooked is this mix of minimalism + directness, which only a handful of other games managed to achieve.

Really a marvellous feat.

Ashes is a different gaming experience. Vostyok wants to explore the medium in a slightly different direction, adding a bit more of complexity to convey different feelings and ideas. Mechanics in Ashes need to be judged with this question: "Do this achieve something else than complexity per se?" As I have already written, ammo scarcity is dear to me because it is a masterful way to feel a connection to the barren post-apoc world. Other mechanics I did not like that much to be honest, like crafting, because — although they were implemented OK — they lacked this special bit of evoking something in the player. I personally liked the flashlight, altohugh as some other players have said it can feel overdone after a bit.

Vostyok is a great dev and he and his team are not shy in experimenting, then asking feedback from players and fixing what did not work out perfectly. Who knows, maybe they are reading this thread too.

My bottom line my friend is that in the year of Our Lord 2024 we are blessed with an abundance of games, mods and maps which was unthinkable of just 20 years ago, and some of them (like Ashes) are even free. Be happy, choose games that you like, judge productions by what they are trying to achieve.

 

[NecroLord]

imagine being this wrong

You would have to imagine, polecuck, because in reality and factually I'm right.

I did play through the entirety of Metro 2033 and Last Light, so I'm not saying that Ashes is the worst shooter experience I've ever had, but I am saying that what was good about Doom gradually got lost in the modding scene. Ashes is the current peak of straying from the simple but very well put together core design principles of Doom into modern goyslop. Whether you are into that or not is a matter of taste, which most Codexers lack.

Unlike the "people" cowardly rating my previous post without having anything to say to the contrary I can argue my position, so I will elaborate a bit. Since people have built up a cult following around this mod it might seem that I'm acting the contrarian or "trolling", but I'd have the same opinions if you'd have asked me about Doom a decade ago.

Doom was a very focused game, with every single part of the game feeding into this singular experience, but id Software, modders and the large parts of the audience disagree with what was established. To understand this conflict of views we must go back to 1994, to Edge's April issue and that much ridiculed review of Doom, here posted in full.

Edge's Doom Review

I'll quote choice parts for the ADHD reader and convenience to demonstrate this early rejection of the pure shooter.

That said, though, there are problems with the game (Edge has no intention of joining the rabble mindlessly praising Doom beyond its worth). Yes, it is good in fact it’s a very, very technically impressive piece of programming but where's the genuine 3D (look up and down) of Ultima Underworld? Where’s the variety in the gameplay (it’s all just kill, kill, kill)? And looking at it coldly, what is there really in Doom (apart from the graphics) to set it above even the most average, most highly repetitive and tedious 2D shoot ‘em up?

Okay, there are some visual touches in this game that will literally blow your mind like the scaling and parallax on the distant mountains - but then everyone said much the same about the hi-res images in The 7th Guest. They may look great, but what do you do with them? You don't ever get to explore those distant mountain ranges - they’re really little more than impressive padding (as in The 7th Guest, you’re just meant to watch them - in awe).

[...]

As it is, once the power of Doom's graphics has worn off (they're amazing, so give that at least a week or two), you’lI be longing for something new in this game.

lf only you could talk to these creatures, then perhaps you could try and make friends with them, form alliances... Now, that would be interesting.

Here we find, even in 1994, the drive towards the mess of elements that would become the shooter genre later on, the open world, conversation, why not shove in some RPG elements? A hunt for money and an in-game store, and weapon upgrades, and more shit to give your brain those goodfeels that you get when numbers go up? Attach more narrative, perhaps a turrent segment, large vehicle section, anything but the purity of shooting enemies in maze-like arenas, because the act of shooting is dull, or so the opposition, that is you, Roxor, seem to think.

There was a time when Doom fans took issue with the reloading of guns, because it cut into the rhythm of Doom, and in Ashes all gun require reloads. Just like in Rage you collect junk, smash boxes, and there are the large empty sections there simply to take up space. Just like in Metro ammunition is so rare that stealth kills, that absolute cancer on the genre, is encouraged. Press V to takedown. There is a dedicated key for melee and the knife is not a selectable weapon. Just like in Metro there are hubs when you get to read badly written conversations and buy things with your limited supplies. Even the shitty torchlight from Doom 3 makes a return in the rechargeable lantern.

12 years ago someone that appreciated Doom for its greatest qualities made a video to mock the cinematic shooter trend, but this is more or less what Ashes plays like.



There is even a scoped rifle with zoom to cover the large empty maps, along with the scripted cinematic events, and you're encouraged to walk slowly to not alert monsters just like in the parody above. Doom modding is now exactly what people used to mock. The supposed peak of Doom modding is undeniably an amateur version of Rage or Metro, and you can be a hypocrite about that if you want, disliking one and not the other, but when you now have a dedicated jump button and platforming sections it's a matter of fact that the experience of Doom is something very distant from this. In the end that reviewer won, dull conversations and "sidequests" are now a part of Doom, scavenging junk like Fallout 3 is now a core game loop. Not to mention that the storyline has completely taken over this porno.

After this dose of reality, Darth Suxxor, you can go back to your imagination where the Polish video game industry is worth a damn and modders aren't busy reinventing AAA goyslop in the original Doom engine.

Press E REPEATEDLY to fight and kill the Imp!
I always preferred pure Doom 2 wads that don't go overboard with the modder autism and borrow elements from modern shooters...

 

[destinae vomitus]

Press E REPEATEDLY to fight and kill the Imp!

You probably think you're joking and being hyperbolic but that almost happened you know.

 

[NecroLord]

Have I also mentioned that the nu-Doom soundtrack sucks ass?
I prefer the 90s MIDI awesomeness of Bobby Prince.
Even Doom 3 has a better soundtrack (mostly short atmospheric tracks).

 

[f2a]

Avonaeon I

later levels

drank the black water, heard that "you can run but you can't hide" voice, where am I supposed to go now? Back to that weird mutant lady? The door is closed!

edit: nevermind, found an unexplored section. Maps are yuuuuge.

 

[pOcHa]

not liking ashes is like listening to some of my friends saying how they tried gothic but it didn't click with them - bitch, you don't try this kind of games, you either love them or are fuckin lying about ever having played them

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Also:

Spoiler

How do you get through the raider barricade without it turning into a slaughterhouse?

My experience

I don't know. I got as far 'peacefully' as that second-in-command guy who questions you, but that conversation always resulted in hostility and violence.

 

[Darth Roxor]

On black water barricade:

Spoiler

I think there's some broken scripting involved. Out of curiosity I reloaded at level start and beelined to the boss on noclip. Turned out Doc Murphy was behind a side door leading to the boss room, which I don't think can be accessed, because the entire place is locked. And for more weirdness, when I reloaded an autosave from just before the fight, Murphy wasn't there (I helped him find Jacobs). And weirdest of all - if you enter the boss room from that side door rather than the elevator, the confrontation is different and Murphy appears to help you. Very weird.

Also, when you noclip and beeline to the exit, the general isn't angry at the start of the next level and still gives you supplies.

 

[Darth Roxor]

next time i find a trader with batteries i'm just gonna buy them up to cap because this is fucking ridiculous

 

[Scrounger]

Wanna know gamma?

 

[Avonaeon]

You can find some nightvision toward the end (I think before you're leading the squad through the tunnels).

 

[Darth Roxor]

You can find some nightvision toward the end (I think before you're leading the squad through the tunnels).

The general offers to give you goggles if you didn't genocide the cordon.

However, if the goggles work the same as in Afterglow (meaning: they are completely useless), I doubt that would have helped me much.

 

[MasterofThunder]

I enjoyed Ashes 2063 more than some "classic" FPS games, notably Half-Life and Unreal. Doom is good, but it's the bones of an FPS game, the foundations of one that every subsequent game built from in some way. It's like a tree with several branches. Half-Life and Call of Duty represent the cinematic, overtly linear brand. Tactical FPSs have theirs including Counter Strike, Halo has it's own that unfortunately died off, and the boomer shooters of today that stick closer to the roots. Not every FPS game was going to be a key hunt set in a maze, it was always a genre that had room to grow and experiment. If you compare every FPS game to Doom, you're going to have a bad time. Just like I cannot compare every FPS to Halo. Nothing compares to it.

I can only appreciate what the game itself offers me. If it's enjoyable, I continue, if it's not, I stop playing. If you're always comparing one product to something else, you'll never appreciate it for what it offers.

 

[f2a]

Finished Hard Reset. Some great maps, really evocative like and full of surprises like "At Death’s Door", a couple of good monsters which can always bring you down like the Wendigo, superb music as usual with Ashes.
There is a fair bit of nostalgia (revisiting the Spire and most importantly Michonne, where you have the same characters from Afterglow). Not my cuppa but it helps to explain some chaotic bits in Afterglow plot and sidequests/supporting NPCs.

I liked the voice acting and portaits, but I don't think Vostyok can keep up with such production value while keeping Ashes free. Such things things cost money if done for every line/character, and if done just for some bits (just some lines, just for some characters) then it looks half-baked when every commercial game under the sun has full VA and portraits right now.

It is an important episode connecting the two halves of Ashes, I definitely recommend to play the first two — and play them in order — before jumping into Hard Reset.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I finished the secret level and wait a minute...

Spoiler

is the black water choka-cola???

Also, no one in Michonne is selling batteries. Is this supposed to be some sick fucking joke?

 

[Darth Roxor]

And finished. Definitely a step in the wrong direction.

My biggest problem is that it drops the defining aspect of Asses to me, which is the exploration. Obviously it's the most prominent in Afterglow, but 2063 had plenty of it as well, the peak probably being the sub-caverns before Michonne. Hard Reset doesn't have anything even remotely as good, and it upsets me that most of the levels are extremely linear and just lead you along a corridor from the starting point to the finish line. I think the only two levels in this game that feel like Asses are the school and the amusement park. And then there's the fact that you revisit a bunch of levels from the previous games, which further dilutes the feeling of facing 'the unknown', and also kind of makes you wonder what exactly is the point of this game if all it does is just retell the things you already know.

I also thought the guns were much less cool, and I definitely missed the goddamn SMG and napalm launcher to deal with stupid things in large numbers (flamer and explo-crossbow don't quite cut it). The only addition to the arsenal that I thought was cool was the crossbow.

The new flashlight is total cancer and I have no idea how they thought it was a good idea. I particularly like how Sommerville is the last place where you can buy batteries, and I think after that you find a grand total of 3 of them (if even that) before the final level where you get 2 for almost no purpose.

New munsters are cool tho and most of them serve a specific purpose. At first I was unconvinced by the empties, but they do a good job as literal meatshields for the withered. Oh, the mannequin-infesting worms are an exception, those are kinda stupid.

also wtf story

Spoiler

- Walker's visions go absolutely nowhere and it bothers me. And he has those visions even before he drinks the black choka cola, like with the appearances of the lady in red (who I assume is his dead wife). But after the black water the visions intensify and they still don't go anywhere.

- What's even the point of drinking the black water? Lul imma gulp dis radioactive gloop that makes ppl mad cuz mutant waifu told me.

- Likewise, what was even the point of the dead scav on the farm?

- Likewise2, what was the point of ~evil eyes~ (I think of the mutant psyker from Afterglow...???) nagging you at some point in the black water caverns? edit: no I guess that was the mutant womyn who rescues you but that feels equally pointless

Meh

Overall not a waste of time but definitely the weakest part of the series.

 

[Avonaeon]

And then there's the fact that you revisit a bunch of levels from the previous games, which further dilutes the feeling of facing 'the unknown', and also kind of makes you wonder what exactly is the point of this game if all it does is just retell the things you already know.

I completely agree. This to me was the biggest let down and makes the episode feel kinda pointless.
I'd much rather see something like the journey to some of the others cities mentioned, like New Nashville, rather than retreading familiar ground.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I'd much rather see something like the journey to some of the others cities mentioned, like New Nashville, rather than retreading familiar ground.

If the devs wanted to switch to a different scav, they could have just gone with Silver's adventures in Chicago.

 

[Ash]

Overall I like the idea of the dialogue faces, but some of them look a bit too "current year" and it took me out of it.

The politically-correct, soy-ified, current year way of saying "lame, gay and woke".

 

[Baron Dupek]

Seems like Hedon dev influence on Vostyok is showing in HR...

Regarding one of the new characters in the 2nd part of the game - IIRC that

Spoiler

mutant girl in the apartments was the sister of the final boss in Afterglow?

 

[Scrounger]

Vostyok only made maps (some of them just overlays) and few portraits. There were others who did the work though...

 

[0wca]

What a gem.

Just finished episode 1 and 2 and it really is a great game. Satisfying shooting mechanics, pretty challenging at times, great level design, fantastic atmosphere..

Puts a lot of games with a price tag to shame.