Playing PoE1: impressions

[Jasede]

Finally Bester made good posts. Excellent thread.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

On my first playthrough of BG2, not only did I help the crowd burn Viconia as any self-respecting overworlder should, but I even killed the Ogre that pretended to talk like a pixie, going off gut feeling.

Presented with the same situation here with Aloth, I picked "[stay silent]" and "I'm staying out of this one".

The choice of not helping Aloth is a fake one. They shoehorn you into fighting the mob (it comes out of nowhere; for no apparent reason, they turn hostile).
Then the game forces you to become buddies:

Three fake "choices" for the same thing - "tell me about yourself".
No option 4 for "you had it coming" or to even just leave.

All the while various area designers are talking your ears off about "Choice & Consequence" in the developer's commentary.

 

[ferratilis]

If your resolve is high enough, you can scare them enough that they leave. There are a few other ways to make them leave, can't remember exactly now. But you're not shoehorned into fighting them, it just depends on the build/background.
EDIT: my bad, it's an INT check, if you have at least 14 you can tell them not to mess with someone as bold as Aloth.

 

[The Limper]

If your resolve is high enough, you can scare them enough that they leave. There are a few other ways to make them leave, can't remember exactly now. But you're not shoehorned into fighting them, it just depends on the build/background.
EDIT: my bad, it's an INT check, if you have at least 14 you can tell them not to mess with someone as bold as Aloth.

They do this all over the game. The choices aren’t really choices as a new player wouldn’t know the game specs enough to know what builds will give more options. Shitty design. I still enjoyed the game when i played it for the most part, but the devs were full of it…. and it certainly didnt meet the spirit/expectations of being the BG like series.

 

[ferratilis]

But there is some logic behind it: if you're playing a specific build, you get a unique set of responses, it increases replay value. Same with backgrounds, they add more flair to dialogues and make you want to try different ones on subsequent playthroughs. The bad part was that it was poorly telegraphed. I'm not even bothered by this as much as by, for example, a Barbarian who needs INT for AoE, but it gets in the way of role playing because you're supposed to be a savage brute, but you can get through conflicts using your wit. That's really off putting.

 

[Shadenuat]

Flavour in dialogue is important if it allows you to stay In Character while or after making actual influential choices. For example if you killed that bastard, and picked some brooding mercenary background and when asked about it can reply with Yep, Wrapped berks intestines like noodles on a fork, yeah, such flavor can ask for another playthrough. At places you can also get away with some actual interesting dialogue that really turns whole narrative on its head even without scripting, through writers savviness, AH DAUGHTER OF JANUS malkavian style.

if it's "i piked this so get 16 unique flavour dialog at some places", it's fucking pointless.

 

[Ryzer]

Bester's IQ is very high imo, as stated by this thread. 130 minimum.

 

[Denim Destroyer]

Dialogue opened up through character builds should provide unique bonuses that logically would make sense, not provide options that should be included for everyone regardless of build. Wizards should be able to free people forcible transformed into animals, clerics should have options to heal the sick, fighters should be able to scare off angry crowds through appearing tough. The most basic options of ignoring someone who turned a town against you should not be locked behind character builds.

 

[ValeVelKal]

One thing I liked about PoE and I found well-designed was how the classes (in particular Cipher, but also some other classes) match with the peculiarities with the universe (the souls, etc). Finally a game where unique class are not a name-swap with the classical Rogue/Priest/whatever.
I also liked the backstory and how at the beginning that's just backstory and at some point it clicks that the backstory is actually pretty fundamental to the story. The hollowborn, the Waidwen legacy, and your own role in this ; and how you can change the world if not the universe depending on your decisions with the wheel.

What I did not like was the volume of thrash combat, the undecipherable ruleset ("let's do something as complicated as AD&D, without the advantages of being recognizable like AD&D is), the amount of pointless dialogue and the worst : the fucking elven-town with the fucking elven-quests that have probably been done and done again since 1985.
I did not like the winter DLC very much either.

 

[Quillon]

his last name is Corfiser... never to be mentioned again

 

[Haplo]

One thing I liked about PoE and I found well-designed was how the classes (in particular Cipher, but also some other classes) match with the peculiarities with the universe (the souls, etc). Finally a game where unique class are not a name-swap with the classical Rogue/Priest/whatever.
I also liked the backstory and how at the beginning that's just backstory and at some point it clicks that the backstory is actually pretty fundamental to the story. The hollowborn, the Waidwen legacy, and your own role in this ; and how you can change the world if not the universe depending on your decisions with the wheel.

Yes!

I did not like the winter DLC very much either.

Blasphemy!

 

[vortex]

PoE1 isn't meant for overanalyzing scientific mind like Bester's.

 

[Haplo]

On my first playthrough of BG2, not only did I help the crowd burn Viconia as any self-respecting overworlder should, but I even killed the Ogre that pretended to talk like a pixie, going off gut feeling.

Presented with the same situation here with Aloth, I picked "[stay silent]" and "I'm staying out of this one".

The choice of not helping Aloth is a fake one. They shoehorn you into fighting the mob (it comes out of nowhere; for no apparent reason, they turn hostile).
Then the game forces you to become buddies:

Three fake "choices" for the same thing - "tell me about yourself".
No option 4 for "you had it coming" or to even just leave.

All the while various area designers are talking your ears off about "Choice & Consequence" in the developer's commentary.

While you're not wrong, the slight (but important) difference here is that there are fewer companions and Aloth is the only arcane caster...
I'm guessing the devs didn't want to screw your party composition options with one dialogue line with high consequences.

PoE2 at least has the sidekicks, so the party member selection is a lot wider.

 

[Shadenuat]

While you're not wrong, the slight (but important) difference here is that there are fewer companions and Aloth is the only arcane caster...
I'm guessing the devs didn't want to screw your party composition options with one dialogue line with high consequences

hold the fuck on bro.
josh stated no class is obligatory that was whole idea of balance.

and if you don't want to screw party composition, you can, you know, just use introductory dialogue without anyone attacking companion.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

This kid has talent, he should write official PoE review since we still don't have any.

 

[luj1]

Remember the FUNDAMENTAL reasons why PoE will always be shit,

- Amateurish writing by Californian hipsters and nobodies. Evident by lore dumps and high exposition everywhere. <starts game> "The pact of Glanfanthan was the last hope of the Valirian republics under king Roric..." Oh fuck off... Lack of understanding basic writing principles. Moving on
- Ruleset concocted by a delusional faggot. Looks a little like 4E but ruined by accessibility and an autistic tendency towards systemic symmetry. RTwP isn't even the biggest problem, it's the inherently low stat bonuses (+0.03% damage per point... belongs in a Diablo game with 100 level cap), "per encounter" garbage which takes away any tactical approach and "Endurance", an idiotic mechanic which serves no purpose than to make the game accessible to the masses
- copy-pasted worldbuilding on the level on Harry Potter. fampyrs = vampires, ghuls = ghouls, ripped xaurips off kobolds, vithracks off ilithid and godlikes off planetouched. Low effort and talentless banal shite

 

[Trashos]

Iirc, Sawyer was the lead in the systems/combat stuff, not the lead in writing. Fenstermaker was the narrative lead.
Even so, I wouldn't put so much stock into it. PoE1 narrative/writing decisions were done by committee, that's the (strong) impression it gives to me anyway.
(I bet Bester hates Ayn Rand, but to her credit she has clearly warned against this kind of process.)

I don't agree with commentators that ALL people at Obsidian at that point hated excellence. There were still experienced writers there who have done spectacular work in the past. There were also the nu-Obsidian writers, but it was not just them.

So what I personally see in the writing is:
a) Clearly not enough editing passes. Probably due to lack of time.
b) Bad management in the writing process. Whatever hierarchy was implemented didn't work out.
c) A glimpse at the future of Obsidian, as the good writers eventually left, and the nu writers stayed.

 

[luj1]

Haplo all you fags and PoE apologists with PoE avatars should be burned at the stake for defending this crock of shit

 

[luj1]

Iirc, Sawyer was the lead in the systems/combat stuff, not the lead in writing. Fenstermaker was the narrative lead.

Soyer wrote a ton of lore

 

[Tavernking]

Skyrim was my first RPG and Pillars of Eternity was my first CRPG.

I guess you could say I've had a hard life.

 

[Brancaleone]

"The pact of Glanfanthan was the last hope of the Valirian republics under king Roric..."

Can't believe you still have trouble wrapping your head around the consequences of the battle of Glenfiddich between the Lagavulin and the Glenmorangie armies, and how that shaped the Laphroaig restoration.

It's like reading Thucydides, but with way cooler names.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

his last name is Corfiser... never to be mentioned again

Shit name like that, I wouldn't want to use it much either.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

"Aberrant head shapes prevent wearing protecting headgear, as it is near-impossible to find anything that fits"

So first of all, during the medieval times, not only you COULD get anything custom made. But it was also the buyer's market. It would cost outrageously a lot, but the possibility was there. So make it a quest to acquire a helm for your godlike, why not?
The idea that a peculiar head shape left your armorless is not based in historical reality.

The description says the godlikes are unable to find headgear that fits. In a game like PoE where you mainly use equipment that you find in dungeons you will probably not find much that fits, if your head-shape is of a peculiar form. The other options is to buy headgear from vendors and they don't take custom orders, they sell what they have already produced.
However, as you point out godlikes would still be able to buy custom made helmets from armour-smiths, that feature is not present in the game though. Another option would be to craft a helmet yourself using the crafting feature but from what I gather you cannot make your own equipment in PoE.

The main point would be that you should be able to buy or craft custom made helmets in the game.

Aloth

I will forever think of Aloth as Alaloth now.

 

[luj1]

It's like reading Thucydides

It's like reading a wannabe Thucydides

 

[Brancaleone]

It's like reading Thucydides

It's like reading a wannabe Thucydides

Ehrm, I was being sarcastic.