Eternity PoE II: Deadfire Sales Analysis Thread

[Lacrymas]

This trend of "story-driven" RPGs must die.

 

[Safav Hamon]

The bigger question is why Deadfire is reviewing worse than the first game. I can't wrap my head around that.

The Codex consensus is that the game has worse writing for its companions and main narrative. Since much of the CRPG market is composed of storyfags, and storyfags are also more likely to write reviews due to their natural love of writing, it's not surprising.

Even if that were true (I don't agree), I thought the consensus was that the setting, factions, and minor characters were all improved.

 

[DalekFlay]

Except you can't really know what "most players" want because they aren't on the forums. Which means you design a game around abstract telemetry and statistical averages that don't constitute actual people. The problem with that is only AAA games really benefit from that, as we've seen time and again. Not to mention that most people don't really know what they want and don't analyse games like the Codex does, so it's kinda pointless to ask them either way. It's much better to have a vision, to know your audience, and to make the best game you possibly can with that information, not overestimate your reach. Obs should've designed the game around the 10-20% of their audience who played WM, not go all out with full VA to try to fruitlessly appeal to some imaginary players. I know taking risks is inevitable and important in business, but there are smart risks and there are stupid risks.

They did know what they wanted to make though, an Infinity Engine revival with a very traditional Forgotten Realms style setting. They viewed that as their ticket, right or wrong, and I think the result was a lot of people realized that's not really what they wanted from Obsidian (again, right or wrong).

 

[Azarkon]

I don't think there's a trend of story driven CRPGs. Rather, there will always be people who play CRPGs primarily for the story, people who play CRPGs primarily for the game play, etc., and companies that align themselves accordingly, dependent on availability of talent and internal objectives. Obsidian has historically sold itself as a story-driven CRPG company, but having lost its best narrative leads, it is facing a crisis of direction. The Cain Boyarsky game will probably determine their future trajectory. Should it be a story-driven CRPG, then we'll know that Obsidian still wants to present itself as a storyfag company, which in my opinion, would be a mistake. Should it be a more action or adventure driven game, then it has a better chance of success, given Obsidian's current talent set.

 

[fantadomat]

This trend of "story-driven" RPGs must die.

Fuck off asshole,go and play retarded diablo clones and stop bitching about shit combat! Isometric Action rpgs should die out with all the people that worship combat!


PS:I doubt that you have even played the good combat rpgs like Knights of the Chalice!

 

[Neanderthal]

I'd say excessive attention to the narrative must die, rpgs need to be more "whole" with each element supporting and building on the other. At the moment they're unbalanced as hell.
Not saying you can't make a good game based on just one thing, BG is an alright arpg, BaK a bloody good storybook, ToEE fucking lovely for combat, but an rpg in my eyes must be more than that.

 

[Lilura]

Jagged Alliance 2 is what people want.

 

[ItsChon]

Pillars was boring, simple as that. I tried playing it after successful experiences with BG1, IWD, and PS:T; and all three of these games with the exception of IWD started off ridiculously slow for me. The difference between PoE and these games is that these were actually interesting enough to keep me playing until they picked up. Pillars problems,

- 3D graphics just look worse than well crafted 2D graphics, and the combat feels clunky. I don't know if this is a definite rule, but I've yet to see an isometric RPG execute 3D graphics well.
- Combat feels slow and clunky, animations n' all.
- The starting town is so dreary and lifeless, it just sucked all the desire out of me to play the game. In BG1 you have the Friendly Arms Inn, you get Kuldahar in IWD, and in PS:T you have Sigil right off the bat.
- The fucking paragraph chunks. I love reading, but the way PoE goes about it is so fucking lame. The whole spirits mechanics was so ass, and I found myself forcing myself to read.

The game didn't fail because it was RTwP or because it was story focused. I also don't understand this divide between story and gameplay that Codexers seem to push; there is absolutely no reason why they have to be mutually exclusive. Underrail was an amazing mix of the two, and people are acting like you can't make a game with the ToEE combat system and a good story.

 

[Lacrymas]

They did know what they wanted to make though, an Infinity Engine revival with a very traditional Forgotten Realms style setting. They viewed that as their ticket, right or wrong, and I think the result was a lot of people realized that's not really what they wanted from Obsidian (again, right or wrong).

That was the pitch and overall idea, but the devil is in the details. They didn't actually know where to go with this concept, so they didn't go anywhere, resulting in blandness all around.

 

[Safav Hamon]

I admit that I'm tired of epic narratives and bioware style companions.

I care more about worldbuilding elements such as lore, culture, factions, and atmosphere. Neketaka is a brilliant example of all those elements.

 

[Lilura]

Underrail was an amazing mix of the two.

pls, bitch. 18 years later, Underrail could not even come close to matching Fallout.

 

[DalekFlay]

That was the pitch and overall idea, but the devil is in the details. They didn't actually know where to go with this concept, so they didn't go anywhere, resulting in blandness all around.

I agree with that, but I don't think some combat tweaks would have changed anything. My point is even if you released BG2 today I bet it wouldn't sell gangbusters. You have to innovate, capture new markets, take the best of the old and mix it with the best of the new. Also some Obsidian writing and quests/factions would have been nice. Instead I think they focused too much on emulating Bioware and we got bland-city.

 

[Azarkon]

I'd say excessive attention to the narrative must die, rpgs need to be more "whole" with each element supporting and building on the other. At the moment they're unbalanced as hell.
Not saying you can't make a good game based on just one thing, BG is an alright arpg, BaK a bloody good storybook, ToEE fucking lovely for combat, but an rpg in my eyes must be more than that.

There are already companies that focus on systems more than story. For instance, Stygian Software, Piranha Bytes, and Bethesda. There's no trend towards story-driven CRPGs. InXile, for example, made both a story-driven CRPG, and a combat-driven CRPG for the CRPG renaissance. Neither were particularly successful, but Torment did worse. Obsidian has traditionally made story-driven CRPGs only because that's where their skill set is.

 

[ItsChon]

pls, bitch. 18 years later, Underrail could not even come close to matching Fallout.

Generational differences, Fallout was too much of a slog for me to get into. And again, just because a game doesn't come close to meeting your high expectations of FO or JA2, doesn't mean it isn't good.

I care more about worldbuilding elements such as lore, culture, factions, and atmosphere.

Games that focus on this are "story fag" RPG's however, or at least that's how I see it. When I say I want a game with a good story, I'm talking about everything. The setting, the characters, the factions, etc. In fact, I think we should avoid using the word story. We just want the game to have good fucking writing. Even if it isn't PS:T levels, Underrail did the job extremely well; and its main quest was literally "you're looking for a box". It's the way that it was executed which made it good.

My point is even if you released BG2 today I bet it wouldn't sell gangbusters. You have to innovate, capture new markets, take the best of the old and mix it with the best of the new.

It would definitely sell enough to be commercially successful.

 

[Lilura]

Fallout was too much of a slog for me to get into.

'tard detected.

Obsidian's best game was MotB

Fix'd.

 

[fantadomat]

Fallout was too much of a slog for me to get into.

'tard detected.

Obsidian's best game was MotB

Fix'd.

You are wasting your time with safav,he is a retarded nu fag that thinks that old games are shit more or less. Most likely a PoE fanboy that found out that rpgs exits because of it.


For fallout VS Underrail i disagree with the earlier statement,both games have nothing in common outside of being in a post apocalyptic setting. Both games are good.

 

[ItsChon]

'tard detected.

Nah, I just have better things to do than to sit down and force myself to push through hours of shit combat. Did all the missions in Klammath, minus the Gecko quest because it was fucking impossible at that level, and I just got bored walking around. This isn't fucking attractive to look at.

Spoiler

And that's a lot better than it looks when you have the game loaded up. This whole shtick of calling people retarded when they don't like the same game as you is fucking stupid.

 

[Lilura]

Nah, I just have better things to do than to sit down and force myself to push through hours of shit combat. Did all the missions in Klammath, minus the Gecko quest because it was fucking impossible at that level, and I just got bored walking around. This isn't fucking attractive to look at.

That's Fallout 2, not Fallout. Still, Fallout 2 is top 5 all-time.

This whole shtick of calling people retarded when they don't like the same game as you is fucking stupid.

I have covered JA2, Underrail and Fallout in-depth (with comparisons). You are just another shitposter with bad taste.

 

[DalekFlay]

Nah, I just have better things to do than to sit down and force myself to push through hours of shit combat. Did all the missions in Klammath, minus the Gecko quest because it was fucking impossible at that level, and I just got bored walking around. This isn't fucking attractive to look at.

And that's a lot better than it looks when you have the game loaded up. This whole shtick of calling people retarded when they don't like the same game as you is fucking stupid.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Fallout 2 is one of my favorite games of all time. As much as I love Deadfire, I'd much rather Obsidian attempt a spiritual successor to that.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Fallout was too much of a slog for me to get into.

Eat your vegetables, kid

 

[ItsChon]

Fanboys are so fucking retarded it hurts. If someone dislikes a game or couldn't get into it, you have to evaluate whether or not their reasons are valid. I couldn't get into Fallout 2 because the combat was so shit, I couldn't bother to continue. Never said anything about the quality of the game directly, and I'll probably try Fallout 2 again at a later date when I'm up to it. But pretending that the opening area isn't a fucking slog is a mix of being disingenuous, retarded, and nostalgic.

Eat your vegetables, kid

Go lift some weight, kid.

 

[Strange Fellow]

If someone dislikes a game or couldn't get into it, you have to evaluate whether or not their reasons are valid.

Done.

 

[Lilura]

They did know what they wanted to make though, an Infinity Engine revival with a very traditional Forgotten Realms style setting. They viewed that as their ticket, right or wrong, and I think the result was a lot of people realized that's not really what they wanted from Obsidian (again, right or wrong).

Obsidian's prime pitch was Infinity Engine/Bhaalspawn Saga "spiritual successor". IE veterans were their target audience. It was a cheap attempt to cash-in on nostalgia, just like every other Kickstarter "Renaissance" RPG.

What happened was, they just failed to impress their target audience, similar to how BioWare failed with their "spritual successor", Dragon Age: Origins.

These games just stink of degenerate current gen fads, trends and sensibilities. Pretty much everything post-MotB/SoZ does.

 

[Safav Hamon]

But pretending that the opening area isn't a fucking slog is a mix of being disingenuous, retarded, and nostalgic.

I agree the beginning is the worst part of Fallout 2. The game clicks for me once I reach The Den.