PoE Was Only Loved Because Of #Hype

[Sensuki]

Okay, I've been over this a million times with the dense dunces of IE defense. When my only strategy is to click on the first guy I see and then just watch. No interaction, no input by me, just watching, the combat neither requires strategy nor tactics. See, click, watch is not a strategy. Its just fucking clicker hero with just one click instead of a whole bunch. Clicker hero at least requires constant input.

Only extremely stupid people could find challenge in any of the IE games. Period. I prove this every time I play. Look at you, you call me an idiot yet I can somehow mindlessly role through combat that to you is a grand challenge requiring tons of tactical maneuvering and employments, and masterful strategic thinking.

If I'm an idiot what does that make you? Forrest Gumpish at the best. Do you find movies challenging? I know I don't, because watching things requires no strategy or tactics, even by idiots like me.

I definitely would be interested in hearing about the tactics you employ and your strategy when it comes to winning watching a movie.

What difficulty are you playing on and are you rest spamming?

Against most trash mob encounters you are quite right that you can just select all attack the first target and the party with AI on will do the work for you, but that is kinda lazy and you'll take more damage than you would if you actually put a bit of effort in. This kind of attitude emanates that you are rest spamming. In BG1 - Most Mages casting Mirror Image and Horror which requires some strategical or tactical consideration to overcome unless you perfectly interrupt their spell casting with sheer luck. Most of the time, in order to perfectly interrupt their spell casting this requires some strategical play before the encounter begins, such as lining up an arrow shot and then initiating dialogue with that character if it is a non-hostile to begin with or using Stealth to get the first shot before dialogue is initiated. That also requires that you actually score a hit on them as it is not deterministic. 95% of the time in a Mage encounter in BG1, especially in the early game you can't just roll up and select all left click attack the Mage because he'll get Mirror Image up, cast Horror and then Magic Missile/Melf's Acid Arrow your PC to death - game over.

Compared to a Wizard in Pillars of Eternity, you can actually just ignore every spell they have, pretty much. You don't have to debuff them or remove any protections, you don't have to do anything to protect yourself from their attacks. You can just attack them and they will die.

I can think of heaps more examples, feel free to keep posting if you need some more enlightening.

 

[butchy]

If you read what I wrote I said I got bored of it because of the awful RTwP combat, but disliked it a lot less than the IE game's combat. It was a little better than Drakensang's combat. Also, keeping the party together and no all running around like retarded idiots was easier in PoE.

I liked making characters in NWN 2 with the fan prestige patch thing, I liked the story I was able to learn before the awful combat of PST stopped me from continuing to play it, etc. I liked so much about Darklands when I got it, it actually took me a while to figure out the combat was bad, but it really wasn't a huge percentage of the game. You can like a game despite the combat. It is just hard in the cases of the games I named since combat is so abundant and constant it is such a large percentage of the game. We'll say I can appreciate the good qualities of RTwP games, while not being dumb enough to pretend the combat is tactical or strategic.

Have you played Aarklash? RTwP combat can be good, tactical, and require a solid strategy for different encounters. The rpg that has really good combat, and a really good rest of the game is very, very rare.

EDIT: this is a reply to Ninjerk.

 

[butchy]

What difficulty are you playing on and are you rest spamming?

Against most trash mob encounters you are quite right that you can just select all attack the first target and the party with AI on will do the work for you, but that is kinda lazy and you'll take more damage than you would if you actually put a bit of effort in. This kind of attitude emanates that you are rest spamming. In BG1 - Most Mages casting Mirror Image and Horror which requires some strategical or tactical consideration to overcome unless you perfectly interrupt their spell casting with sheer luck. Most of the time, in order to perfectly interrupt their spell casting this requires some strategical play before the encounter begins, such as lining up an arrow shot and then initiating dialogue with that character if it is a non-hostile to begin with or using Stealth to get the first shot before dialogue is initiated. That also requires that you actually score a hit on them as it is not deterministic. 95% of the time in a Mage encounter in BG1, especially in the early game you can't just roll up and select all left click attack the Mage because he'll get Mirror Image up, cast Horror and then Magic Missile/Melf's Acid Arrow your PC to death - game over.

Compared to a Wizard in Pillars of Eternity, you can actually just ignore every spell they have, pretty much. You don't have to debuff them or remove any protections, you don't have to do anything to protect yourself from their attacks. You can just attack them and they will die.

I can think of heaps more examples, feel free to keep posting if you need some more enlightening.

Wait? Are you saying games or normal mode that have a mechanic you can use are of course ridiculously retardedly easy it is my fault?

Why would I put effort in to something that doesn't need it and would just make the boring awful go slower? I steam role over people. I just did this with an idiot at rpgwatch that fucked me because I bought IWD 2 EE and played for barely over 2 hours and steam wouldn't refund it. I was able to role over everything within that time, and I didn't need to "rest spam." He informed me I had to play the game for 5 or 10 hours until i had a fight that is challenging. I don't want to be bored for 5 or 10 hours playing a game. That is usually the length of time I can stand even somewhat good games.

According to him I was doing everything wrong, etc, and should gimp my party, and wear a blind fold, and hold my pee in for hours to make the game challenging and see how beautiful and magical all the tactics and strategy if I just did it his way.

This is my strategy in every game -
1) Thank my mother that I'm not an idiot
2) Build a competent party
3) Play game
4) Winning

I have to admit in the BG games I made my own party. I did not recruit any NPCs because they are idiots that just blab their stupid fucking mouths non-stop. RPGWatch idiot thought that was somehow cheating. I like making my own party. I dislike when the devs makes my party. The characters they make are annoying. My characters are good and they know how to shut their fucking faces. If the game allows me to make my own party it isn't cheating. Rerolling until I get 18/00 isn't cheating. If they don't want me to do that don't allow me to do that but if you have a reoll button that is screaming hit me what do you want me to do? Gimp myself? And the devs admit they "balance" the game around people having max stats for whatever class, and I am also assuming people being utterly bad at games. So no, I had no issues with mages, sure sometimes it took awhile to kill them, but they were click and watch. I remember annoying shit you had to kite in IWD specifically or they blow up, but kiting isn't really a challenge and switching to range is more annoying than tactical.

I actually got almost twice as far into the OC and the NWN 2 mask expansion everyone shits their pants about by adding the mod that lets you make your own party like in the whatever the expansion is that added it.

I had NWN 2 on direct 2 drive and I just get confused with what they have turned into and the consolness of it all I just gave up. I bought nwn2 on GOG, and it has this campaign that was actually kind of difficult. There was a mask and a thief, a fallen paladin, and a cleric, and I had to I forget. But there is a house that blows up, and you go in, and at the end there is a summoning ritual and a fight I had to save and reload a couple times to win. I had to save and reload about 10 times to beat the group arena match (I played this campaign before I downloaded the prestige class pacth thing or the other mods, I had no mods at all). Those fights were actually challenging enough, and required strategy enough for me to remember them.

 

[Sensuki]

You did not actually address my point at all.

 

[butchy]

What? Where do you come up with this stuff? What didn't I address? And what is a cuck?

 

[Metal Hurlant]

A cuck is short for a beta cuck.

To clarify, there was a sordid story of hope, betrayal and regret. The controversy ended up with the title The reluctant Cuckold - My life cucked by a Game Developer. The second part of this story Cuck Storm Horizon was named in anticipation of the expansions and we're now seeing the resultant fallout. The trilogy will end with a third and final part which hasn't been divulged as yet and I for one am eagerly anticipating the ending of this story.

 

[Lord Andre]

After all the TLDR rants on how inventory lists are console decline...bla bla bla I would've expected more from butchy whatever your old handle was.

All that Willie Coyote "I'm a super genius" talk but you think POE combat is ok. Idiot detected indeed.

 

[butchy]

A cuck is short for a beta cuck.

To clarify, there was a sordid story of hope, betrayal and regret. The controversy ended up with the title The reluctant Cuckold - My life cucked by a Game Developer. The second part of this story Cuck Storm Horizon was named in anticipation of the expansions and we're now seeing the resultant fallout. The trilogy will end with a third and final part which hasn't been divulged as yet and I for one am eagerly anticipating the ending of this story.

After all the TLDR rants on how inventory lists are console decline...bla bla bla I would've expected more from butchy whatever your old handle was.

All that Willie Coyote "I'm a super genius" talk but you think POE combat is ok. Idiot detected indeed.

Metal, thanks for the explanation.

Lord, I clearly stated if I am an idiot what does that make people who have difficulty with the combat? Please, keep your idiot detector going at full throttle, because the stupider I am the even more stupider you people are. And I raise your indeed to an indubitably. Take that you cuck. I know a cuckold watches his wife get fucked by another guy. I'm not sure what a plain old cuck does, or if it is even an insult. I will check.

I am wrong, it is just a guy with an unfaithful wife and the origins do not express the possibility of cuck meaning anything

[C13 cukeweld, from Old French cucuault, from cucucuckoo; perhaps an allusion to the parasitic cuckoos that lay their eggs in the nests of other birds]
[1200–50; Middle English cukeweld, later cok(k)ewold, cukwold < Anglo-French *cucuald]

The only possible definition would be - a man whose wife... I guess I could read these stories but I only enjoy reading while shitting and bringing my computer into the bathroom seems like a big hassle unless my wife will let me keep it in there, and I have a strong feeling she will not let me. That would be awesome though.

 

[Lord Andre]

Lord, I clearly stated if I am an idiot what does that make people who have difficulty with the combat?

The point of dispute isn't if the combat is hard (it's not), the point of dispute is that the combat is boring as it revolves around a single tactic (tank and spank) and around a single stat (accuracy) - a short coming made more evident by the ridiculous amount of thrash mobs in the game. This, coupled with the fact that itemization is boring, map design is very shallow, encounter design is non existant and the plot very anti-climatic marks this game as mediocre without any redeeming qualities. Well, the graphics are good, so there is that.

You are welcome to disagree of course, but in my book, liking PoE is a strike against your intellect.

 

[butchy]

I really liked the map design. I hate huge maps that are a hassle to clear. Keep it small and interesting. I rarely see the climax to any game's plot, including this games, so can't disagree.

May I ask you if you feel the combat in the IE games were any better? Or if you feel the IE games had less trash mobs?

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Maps are great, I don't see what the problem is. Big map doesn't make for interesting exploration. Interesting map makes for interesting exploration. Almost all the maps have non-linear design with multiple routes, and the fog of war makes you check everything, but the size is small enough that you can clear the whole location in 30-60 minutes, get another beer and feel like you've done something.

Wouldn't have it done any other way.

 

[shihonage]

I couldn't get past the first few minutes of being bombarded by endless tutorial messages I immediately started forgetting, and then being sent to find berries. That was it.

 

[Ninjerk]

Night Goat we have need of your Asper-O gif.

 

[Roguey]

I couldn't get past the first few minutes of being bombarded by endless tutorial messages I immediately started forgetting, and then being sent to find berries. That was it.

You can turn off in-game tutorials before you even start a new game.

The kind of person who needs them isn't going to check the options screen to turn them on.

 

[shihonage]

Everything about PoE design says, "this is the kind of game you would play when you were in late teens or early 20s, when time stood still and you were going to be young forever".

When they invent immortality, I'll give it a second look, but chances are, I'll be too busy evading Depopulation Services.

 

[Sensuki]

Have you played Aarklash? RTwP combat can be good, tactical, and require a solid strategy for different encounters. The rpg that has really good combat, and a really good rest of the game is very, very rare.

Aarklash Legacy has good RTwP although it becomes fairly repetitive quickly due to the fact that you're basically spamming the same four abilities when they come off cooldown every single time and boss fights are basically just a DPS/heal race against a HP bloated single enemy. The game makes great use of tactical movement and positioning/re-positioning during encounters though - proof that Engagement and AoO systems in RTwP are only a dumb idea.

I kinda wish it had a better item system, that would maybe spruce things up a bit.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Aarklash Legacy has good RTwP although it becomes fairly repetitive quickly due to the fact that you're basically spamming the same four abilities when they come off cooldown every single time and boss fights are basically just a DPS/heal race against a HP bloated single enemy. The game makes great use of tactical movement and positioning/re-positioning during encounters though - proof that Engagement and AoO systems in RTwP are only a dumb idea.

I kinda wish it had a better item system, that would maybe spruce things up a bit.

It has better boss fights than PoE for sure even with the HP bloat. But it is a boring game most of the time.

 

[Theldaran]

Pillars is indeedy disappointing as "today's Baldur's Gate".

It just proves that nobody can keep on pulling amazing games out of their arse. Interplay fluke or not, Black Isle was bound to fail eventually. I've read interviews and I'm still curious about BG: the Black Hound and what it was going to be. Still, it's from a bygone era.

Not that of course we should be busy expanding the Bhaalspawn saga, God forbid. Beamdog are just as lazy -though I still gotta play the new BG expansion, I don't think it rightfully expands upon the BG legacy.

The first shitty decision was to keep the IE. It's just the same aged shit, I even think it keeps the same glitches... One more lazy decision.

In BG, items were unique and powerful and they might well be, since you had to earn them, usually the violent way. D&D system could be broken but that was half the fun.

Then, BG told Forgotten Realms stories, whereas Pillars takes the dive with a new setting. In this setting, the gods have a mighty weight that doesn't reflect on the culture. Nevermind that I play a priest and no NPC gives a shit about it. In this world, reincarnation and souls exist but only a few people are aware of it. But hey, a lot of "myths" exist. It's just a matter of consistence, the basic world building glue. The story of Pillars could still be told, but in a world where it could be better integrated. In a way, it's a good story for a poor, bog-standard setting.

And after so many years, people should know there's no point to adding many races to the setting, if they just end up "humans with quirks". Even if it's just for gameplay, as a D&D nod. By the way, D&D primary races were just Tolkien races... But Tolkien made them unique with piles of lore, whereas your regular D&D setting, and of course Pillars, does not.

Enviado desde mi Edison 3 mediante Tapatalk

 

[Lacrymas]

That's the thing though, even if we forgive the setting - it doesn't have a good story. Objectively. It has more holes than this fine slice of Gorgombert.

 

[Immortal]

And even if the story and setting were amazing.. THAT GARRISON

 

[Neanderthal]

The first shitty decision was to keep the IE. It's just the same aged shit, I even think it keeps the same glitches... One more lazy decision.

You gotta hand it to Obsidian if folk think they're still using Infinity Engine.

 

[Immortal]

You gotta hand it to Obsidian if folk think they're still using Infinity Engine.

By "Folk" you mean one retard..

 

[Neanderthal]

I've seen it a fair bit on less monocled sites, and I have to say that they did do a good job making a copy of IE style, except in details that stand out and rile us autists.

Which reminds me, is there any reference to soul power depending on physical strength in game apart from damage bonus? Cause I couldn't find fuck all, might were just strength that happened to affect spells an all.

 

[ghostdog]

I couldn't get past the first few minutes of being bombarded by endless tutorial messages I immediately started forgetting, and then being sent to find berries. That was it.

same with me, only I managed to reach the temple ruins. I just can't make myself pick this up again.

 

[Lacrymas]

And even if the story and setting were amazing.. THAT GARRISON

You might be amused to find out that the SH was made as pointless and as boring as possible on purpose. Josh Sawyer explained that on the somethingawful forums -

Josh:
"There are a non-trivial number of players that absolutely loathe strongholds as a concept and never want to interact with stronghold mechanics. It's difficult to make something feel robust and rewarding but also completely optional."

"And if we gated a bunch of quests through the stronghold, there would be complaints about that. It's not really an "everyone wins" decision since some people hate stronghold-gated content. That said, if we had spare area and narrative design resources during development, sure we'd make some stronghold specific content. That was never the case and it still wasn't the case on the expansion. Whatever work is done on gated content is work not being done on content available to everyone."


Someone else:
You "gated" a lot of good content, including a character quest, behind the Endless Paths, though, and that was optional as well.

Stronghold content is available to everyone, though, it's just that, much like the endless paths, it's optional.

Josh:
"You're downplaying the aversion that people have to strongholds, specifically. If there's a "I hate big dungeons" bloc of significant size, I'm unaware of them. Stronghold aversion seems more comparable to romance aversion."


Someone else:
I would expect something with parity with the games this was inspired by. So, when I think of what my expectations are for a stronghold in PoE were, I thought maybe a total number of quests (with similar depth) to the multitude of Strongholds in BG2.

Josh:
"Do you want us to cut six quests and ~20 characters/dialogues from the expansion areas for the stronghold?"

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...06905&pagenumber=576&perpage=40#post447867960