Arkane PREY - Arkane's immersive coffee cup transformation sim - now with Mooncrash roguelike mode DLC

[Ash]

Dude, you've been arguing that balance is meaningless in a singleplayer game and essentially isn't worth striving for at all.

No, I'm saying that trying to "balance" some builds against each other is laughable and impossible affair. If the multiplayer devs can't really do that without turning games dead simple and shoehorning players into very specific modes of behaviour, what do you hope to achieve in a game which strives to create as many interactable systems as possible? And why you actually need it, it's like additional layer of difficulty selection, some games (like Nox, for example, which started as a purely PVP game and is actually a damn good pvp game) even explicitly used it (warrior - easy, wizard - hard). You can't really balance the game so that ___everyone___ will experience it in the same way, some people will inevitably find your hard mode too easy as well as some will find easy too overtuned (cue in Verge grade players and various youtubers who are resource starved even on medium or whatever it is called in Prey).

It is rather simple to balance a build or playstyle so that it doesn't become ridiculously OP and mindless. You actually have to go out of your way to make it so by ignoring the problem, aside from genuine oversights and glitches, or you're just a shit designer because you ignored the problem. It's not rocket science we're talking about. Balancing one playstyle vs another, that is harder, but you only need to balance choices that conflict or interact. Rosodude did not specify that playstyles needed to be balanced to one another; stealth playstyle does not need to be the EXACT same in general power level as combat, it's not terribly important (though shouldn't be hugely offset of course). He clearly means that stealth option A needs to be balanced to stealth option B or C, as well as, even more importantly, balanced to the challenges and other systems relevant to stealth in the game. He also never specified choices were all about efficiency, though it IS the most important factor especially on your first playthrough where the player does not know the difficulty of challenges that are to come. Your self-imposed rules in a replay of PF:KM is not really relevant; you appear to know the game rather well and so weird builds or styles do become much more viable.

Prey is a nice attempt but ultimately a disappointing game and it is at least 20% the result of the mediocre balance and challenge on offer, though I expected as much because modern pandering. Still way better than most AAA. That you don't recognise this, nor the importance of some reasonable degree of balance in singleplayer, well it's just a matter of low standards in metal engagement I'm afraid. Sorry. and don't get me wrong, it is considerably better than Bioshock in pretty much every way, well, except maybe Bioshock's atmosphere derived from sound design, art direction and themes. In fact Prey's sound design annoys me quite a bit with its sharp audio cues and bots that are really loud and don't shut up, and otherwise not much else that stands out. To be fair I think sound is best judged with headphones, which I did not try in Prey's case. I guess Bioshock has an acceptable number of firearms too. That's all I got though.

 

[Ash]

The fact that Prey has like 3 guns is all the proof needed to know the game was made by nu male soy boys and women.

I'm half kidding.

 

[Silverfish]

The fact that Prey has like 3 guns is all the proof needed to know the game was made by nu male soy boys and women.

I'm half kidding.

Someone didn't take Leverage. Everything in Prey is a gun.

 

[Israfael]

well it's just a matter of low standards in metal engagement I'm afraid.

No, I'm just not thinking only about my precious self, but other people who might have worse aim, attention span and so on. Designers that banked everything on your style of "balance" spectacularly failed (just check how Wildstar performed), it's just a fact of life - people don't really play games for challenge's sake and very rarely improve (which is sad, but you can't really change it). You can balance in whatever way you like but it does not make the game ___objectively___ better or worse. Recently I've replayed San Andreas (after the BLM riots) and I installed several ASI mods to remove annoying visual effects like motion blur and heat haze and inadvertently installed an unsolicited "balance mod" (made by people like you I guess) which increased enemies' gun range by 4x and their accuracy by 4x. Initially I did not notice anything as everything dies in one shot to the head, but then I was surprised I could kill Ryder before he swam to the motorboat (which was a nerf to game) and then I was stuck at the "Free the rappers mansion" mission as the enemy thugs killed almost all my chinese sidekicks before they even landed on the roof (no matter what I did they were killed very quickly even if I managed to shoot every incoming thug in one shot basically instantly). I started to check the config files and found that someone tweaked the weapons. So, basically, I've not noticed such a drastic balance change because the game was easy for me, but someone with bad aim would certainly notice it in the beginning. Since I've tried to explain this many times with specific examples, I'd probably should not bother since you wilfully decided not to understand such concerns.

Your self-imposed rules in a replay of PF:KM is not really relevant; you appear to know the game rather well and so weird builds or styles do become much more viable.

Again, why is it "self-imposed" and in what way? I could have simply said that I tried to RP the NPC companions in the way they are __supposed__ to be used and leveled up (although it is very debatable, there's like 3 or 4 different "intended" builds for Vally with lots of people arguing about it in the PFKM threads) or that I was simply satisfied with their damage output / survivability.

 

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

Again, why is it "self-imposed" and in what way? I could have simply said that I tried to RP the NPC companions in the way they are __supposed__ to be used and leveled up (although it is very debatable, there's like 3 or 4 different "intended" builds for Vally with lots of people arguing about it in the PFKM threads) or that I was simply satisfied with their damage output / survivability.

The fact that you had to go out of your way to do this and the game made no attempt to force or encourage this behaviour makes it self-imposed by definition.

 

[kites]

i found myself enjoying this a lot. having to work with a tool-kit to get around situations you made out of impatience and/or ignorance is always a +. suffering thru the shuttle bay with fractures and a lack of resources was memorable. can't say as much for most everything else after the arboretum portion, though. and i wasn't fond of "nightmare" difficulty.. having to play the most "efficient" way and save-scumming when a situation wasn't 100% optimal just isn't "fun". setting your own restrictions, turning the difficulty down, taking it less seriously and living with consequences made for a much better time. also throwing away any desire you may have to constantly micro-manage the fish sticks in your inventory or loot every trashcan improves this game *a lot*.

too many negatives to list; from the lack of stealth, enemy/weapon variety, a weak plot (some good flavor in there)..
also being able to get a million neuromods/upgrade kits in one playthru really hurts replayability as well

and tbh i really just wanted it to feel more like Alien, System Shock etc. and while it is a good time, it doesn't.
RoSoDude's mod looks like something my playthu desperately coulda used!

even with all my gripes..

 

[MajorMace]

Every gem is flawed in this industry. Some more than other but they shine nonetheless.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Yeah, I feel like mimic matter should have been the stealth mode of this game.

 

[kites]

Yeah, I feel like mimic matter should have been the stealth mode of this game.

i see it more as a problem of enemy ai/variety/placement/ss-type respawns; there aren't many moments where you are taken "by surprise". mimics are a joke. and maybe there's a typhon or two patrolling a space; you have no incentive not to nuke them out of orbit with the superpowers/kits you've been showered with.. they're just something in the way of junking it up and reading all the emails.. (also considering the absolute excess of operators after a certain point why bother)

 

[samuraigaiden]

having to play the most "efficient" way and save-scumming when a situation wasn't 100% optimal just isn't "fun".

TBH I never, ever did this while playing on Nightmare difficulty, but people really should play games the way they feel more comfortable. It is supposed to be fun.

 

[kites]

TBH I never, ever did this while playing on Nightmare difficulty, but people really should play games the way they feel more comfortable. It is supposed to be fun.

definitely! my own tic i guess.. i played "nightmare" 'til psychotronics.. i just found making my own limitations more rewarding than leaving it up to a damage modifier

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

It’s one of the few PC games that should never have had quicksave functionality.

 

[Silverfish]

the lack of stealth

 

[ciox]

the lack of stealth

https://youtu.be/q1OTarcy2H8?t=479

 

[Spukrian]

Hey, I just found the best PREY mod there is: PREY Randomizer.

https://www.nexusmods.com/prey2017/mods/67

This mod reinvigorates the game for me.

EDIT: So maybe I should describe what the mod does so more people will be interested in trying it.

It can randomize the following:
*Enemy spawning: This comes in three varities:

-Lite: weak enemies will be replaced by weak enemies, strong enemies by strong enemies. Haven't tried it yet.
-Recommended: any enemy can be replaced by any enemy (except turrets, tentacles and cystoid nests). This means that a Mimic can be replaced by a Nightmare in the beginning of the game.
-Chaotic: just as regular but turrets and tentacles can be replaced (and replace other enemies). Haven't tried it yet.​

*Item spawning:

-Lite: randomizes every item within its category (e.g. a weapon will be replaced with another weapon). Haven't tried it yet.
-Recommended: randomizes everything except quest items and hazardous props. Haven't tried it yet.
-Chaotic: just as regular except quest items and hazardous props may appear.​

*Cosmetic: may randomize NPC appearence, PC appearence (takes effect after leaving Neuromod Division), music and if you're after the Malkavian experience you could also randomize voicelines.
*Level transitions: the levels are shuffled around.
*Neuromod skill tree: the abilities are shuffled around, making it more difficult to plan your character.
*And more...

So i've been playing this and in the beginning I really felt that tension I had when I played Prey for the first time. I had to be very careful while exploring and also be very careful managing resources. I haven't found many fabrication plans, I cannot make more neuromods. I also can't make any weapons so I have to carefully consider what I repair. I did however find plans for both arming keys and the nullwave device early (they're there to prevent softlocking). There are some objectives that require you pickup an item, those I couldn't achieve because the object was something else, sometimes even a prop! With the station shuffled around I actually managed to avoid triggering the Nightmare timer, so now it only appears at random occasionally.

Some funny things: every regular Phantom carries a Yu Family Photo, I've found a million copies of Alex's Arming Key, I found a quest item that I think was cut (Air Filter something), I've only found 4 recycling charges and I've been everywhere except the Power Plant and some places outside the station.

 

[Serious_Business]

Been playing this for the first time. So Arkane redid System Shock 2, huh. Certainty more convincing than their attempt at remaking Thief through Dishonored. It follows the formula more closely. I quite enjoy it, I have to say. They really one-upped Bioshock, it's pretty amusing. Also the more laconic presentation does wonders to the world-building of Arkane ; no shitty npcs at every turn, just the cold void. Nice. Some peace at last. I really have to just shoot myself into space to have some kind of decent time with all these mongrels running around, it seems

 

[Latelistener]

Dishonored remakes Deus Ex though. The stealth isn't as complex as Thief and the game (at least the first one) is leaning heavily towards lethal solutions.

 

[Tacgnol]

Dishonored remakes Deus Ex though. The stealth isn't as complex as Thief and the game (at least the first one) is leaning heavily towards lethal solutions.

One of the biggest complaints about the first game was how few tools and "fun stuff" you got on a non-lethal playthrough.

Dishonoured 2 had issues, but I did appreciate they made most powers useful for things other than slaughtering everything in sight.

 

[DeepOcean]

I think anyone playing this for first time should place it on the highest difficulty and go pure human or maybe download some mods to rebalance the alien powers, the OP powers ruin the game. Prey, the way it is, it is more like an honorable attempt at making a SS2 successor than a complete game, I really hated quite a few things on the game from the excessive backtracking on the last 30%, the lame enviromental storytelling where you are on a fucking dead station and the designers thought about having you know some boring tragic lesbo love in space was a priority, the ending that came out of nowhere and wasnt really properly setup, felt more like an abstract concept that a narrative lead thought was clever than something that truly made sense with the rest of the game, the OP powers, the lame Nightmare and etc.

Now I see it more like a half finished sculpture that could had been great if it was properly finished, SS2 is still a much better game but Prey is a much more honest attempt at making SS3 than Bioshock ever was.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Even the human abilities are pretty powerful.
Not as powerful as Typhon, but being able to repair and upgrade stuff and interact with the environment is pretty useful.
I played it with no powers, all typhon and all human.
No powers felt really unfair and boring and I just wanted to end it quickly.
Typhon and human was too easy endgame because with the former you can trivialize most threats with mind control and psychoshock, and with the latter you get so many stat buffs and resources that you basically become a walking armory.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

The most blatantly broken power in the game (combat focus) is a human power, so I’m pretty confused that people would consider a human run to be the hardcore mode. At least with typhon powers you have to manage PSI resources (trivial as that may be).
Also the difficulty options as implemented in the base game add little beyond HP-bloat, so I have to disagree there as well.

Prey did a lot of things right, but its balance is absolutely 100% fucked; the skill trees are chock-ful of “IWin” buttons, and it doesn’t really matter which one lets you win more efficiently because they all make sure you win.

 

[Bad Sector]

the lame enviromental storytelling where you are on a fucking dead station and the designers thought about having you know some boring tragic lesbo love in space was a priority, the ending that came out of nowhere and wasnt really properly setup, felt more like an abstract concept that a narrative lead thought was clever than something that truly made sense with the rest of the game

To paraphrase an ancient saying: story in an Arkane game is like story in a porn movie, it's expected to be there, but it is just an excuse for the gameplay :-P

Spoiler

I'll always find amusing how in the NoClip video about Arkane their narrative designer was gushing about gameplay and never mentioned a single thing about narrative or writing.

 

[V_K]

To paraphrase an ancient saying: story in an Arkane game is like story in a porn movie, it's expected to be there, but it is just an excuse for the gameplay :-P

Spoiler

I'll always find amusing how in the NoClip video about Arkane their narrative designer was gushing about gameplay and never mentioned a single thing about narrative or writing.

...which is exactly how it should be.

 

[Nano]

...which is exactly how it should be.

Narrative designers should care about the fuckin' narrative. That's what they were hired to do.

 

[copebot]

I mean, they should have known that people would react negatively to an ending of "it was all a dream." It didn't bother me that much because I had low expectations.