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Arkane PREY - Arkane's immersive coffee cup transformation sim - now with Mooncrash roguelike mode DLC

SharkClub

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Strap Yourselves In
It's the 15 year old edgelords from /v/ with no self awareness setting up shop on the codex and blowing everything out of proportion that they can get their hands on. Nothing new. "Wow this game with its 30 seconds of tokenism is really infringing on my rights as a gamer", with how some of the replies to this thread go you'd think it was a fucking woke disaster garbage truck of a game like Bloodlines 2.
 

LarryTyphoid

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It's the 15 year old edgelords from /v/ with no self awareness setting up shop on the codex and blowing everything out of proportion that they can get their hands on. Nothing new. "Wow this game with its 30 seconds of tokenism is really infringing on my rights as a gamer", with how some of the replies to this thread go you'd think it was a fucking woke disaster garbage truck of a game like Bloodlines 2.
The game sucks otherwise so the tokenism is just the cherry on top :smug:
 

Spukrian

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Please tell me if I'm misinterpreting things... but isn't it problematic that someone with a higher rank (Danielle Sho) uses her position to manipulate someone lower (Abigail Foy or whatever her name was) into a relationship? I mean, if it had been a heterosexual relationship I'm sure someone somewhere would've been REEEEEEEing... maybe I'm overanalyzing.
 

Ismaul

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
isn't it problematic that someone with a higher rank (Danielle Sho) uses her position to manipulate someone lower (Abigail Foy or whatever her name was) into a relationship?
it's ok cause they're lesbians

only a man's power is toxic, didn't you know?
 

Trithne

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Please tell me if I'm misinterpreting things... but isn't it problematic that someone with a higher rank (Danielle Sho) uses her position to manipulate someone lower (Abigail Foy or whatever her name was) into a relationship? I mean, if it had been a heterosexual relationship I'm sure someone somewhere would've been REEEEEEEing... maybe I'm overanalyzing.

Sho was Chief Archivist, Foy Lead Sanitation Engineer. Doesn't strike me as a power imbalance. Foy was under the impression however that using their TranScribes to record their D&D game was against company policy, and Sho got her to agree to a date before telling her it was fine, so I guess that's a little coercive, if you're a sociopath.
 

kangaxx

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Please tell me if I'm misinterpreting things... but isn't it problematic that someone with a higher rank (Danielle Sho) uses her position to manipulate someone lower (Abigail Foy or whatever her name was) into a relationship? I mean, if it had been a heterosexual relationship I'm sure someone somewhere would've been REEEEEEEing... maybe I'm overanalyzing.

Sho was Chief Archivist, Foy Lead Sanitation Engineer. Doesn't strike me as a power imbalance. Foy was under the impression however that using their TranScribes to record their D&D game was against company policy, and Sho got her to agree to a date before telling her it was fine, so I guess that's a little coercive, if you're a sociopath.

The fact that I can't remember any of this underlines to me how irrelevant it all was to the game.
 

Dexter

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It's the 15 year old edgelords from /v/ with no self awareness setting up shop on the codex and blowing everything out of proportion that they can get their hands on. Nothing new. "Wow this game with its 30 seconds of tokenism is really infringing on my rights as a gamer", with how some of the replies to this thread go you'd think it was a fucking woke disaster garbage truck of a game like Bloodlines 2.
I frankly find it surprising that this even seems "controversial" at all. Between Dishonored and Dishonored 2 Arkane underwent their "Social Justice transformation". For Dishonored 2 they had hired Cara Ellison (the very same of Bloodlines 2 fame) as a Narrative Designer who gave an interview about it to The Mary Sue: https://archive.md/dBkH8
They made Emily a playable character and gave Anita Sarkeesian credit for this decision: https://archive.md/xfHS2
Harvey talked about some of this in an interview with Sarkeesian a year later:

At first, you take some criticism and go, 'Wait a minute,' and then you look and it's like, 'Wow, every woman in Dishonored 1 is either a servant, a prostitute, a witch, a queen or a little girl. Or a mistress.' We have a mistress also. You know, that was not an intentional choice.
Harvey also virtue signaled that Emily's "heart belongs to Wyman", and that he snuck a Tranny in.
aKXEFas.png

The game also underwent various other changes and was gutted from anything that could be considered "offensive" or even "dark/spicy/raunchy" by the Social Justice crowd, basically robbing the franchise of its identity. This included no more whorehouse levels, spying on women through key holes or kidnapping women and relinquishing them to possibly sadistic captors and the anecdote by some unnamed Arkane employee about how Harvey Smith even had them remove things from the game shortly before launch:
Ground that is being given to them with the help of Harvey Smith. He has tried hard to appeal to the likes of Anita Sarkeesian. One way he has achieved this is by altering the narrative storytelling within Arkane’s games. An example recounted to me was that there used to be bras and other kinds of lingerie within Dishonored 2 to tell environmental stories about the whereabouts of who they belonged to. Harvey requested they be removed near the end of the game’s development because of the ‘sexist’ message it portrayed.

For PREY they made it a point to say that their protagonist wasn't an "evil huwhyte male", that they consciously made the protagonist gender neutral and mixed race, and that they're generally "conscious" and "value diversity" and added LGBWTFBBQ subplots: https://venturebeat.com/2017/03/12/...s-refreshing-in-a-sea-of-bearded-white-dudes/
We wanted to have a character that wasn’t a typical Western white male guy who’s the lead. And we also wanted to let people select their gender, too, so that’s why we picked a gender-neutral name.”
“[Making the character Asian] makes as much sense as having any other kind of character. It doesn’t make more or less sense. We just thought it was interesting,” Bare continued. “We do, as a team, value diversity and representation in games. It’s not like — we’re not perfect. But we try to be conscious of that. It’s easy to slip into your default, you know what I mean? ‘The stuff I’m used to I don’t even think about. That’s what I put in the game.’

https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=52905
Here in Prey, Morgan is always Mikhaila’s ex. Which means that if you’re male Morgan you’re straight, and if you’re female then you’re a lesbian.
https://www.reddit.com/r/prey/comments/dzulmf/i_love_the_lgbt_representation_in_arkane_games/

By Death of the Outsider they had hired a Gender Studies major as a writer and had a Stronk 38-year old Black Bisexual Disabled Womyn of Color as a protagonist: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...turing-billie-lurk.115701/page-8#post-5306870

She's still working there and is now Narrative Designer on Redfall, and we all know how that turned out: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...-slaying-co-op-fps-from-arkane-austin.138946/


Bonus:
ZpTDdRo.jpg

 
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Trithne

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Please tell me if I'm misinterpreting things... but isn't it problematic that someone with a higher rank (Danielle Sho) uses her position to manipulate someone lower (Abigail Foy or whatever her name was) into a relationship? I mean, if it had been a heterosexual relationship I'm sure someone somewhere would've been REEEEEEEing... maybe I'm overanalyzing.

Sho was Chief Archivist, Foy Lead Sanitation Engineer. Doesn't strike me as a power imbalance. Foy was under the impression however that using their TranScribes to record their D&D game was against company policy, and Sho got her to agree to a date before telling her it was fine, so I guess that's a little coercive, if you're a sociopath.

The fact that I can't remember any of this underlines to me how irrelevant it all was to the game.

To be fair, I had to check a wiki myself, because yeah, it's just set dressing for the "Make a ShoDan sound bank"
 

ciox

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Feb 9, 2016
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1,387
"But iiiiiii didn't eveeeeen noooooootiiiice....." is a little strange given this game's main quests always autoplay messages, and you can't stop playback like in System Shock.
I mean, it does auto-play every single time you run through the game, and you do play multiple runs of this immersive sim game... right? We couldn't possibly be dealing with *shudder* storygamers here?
On that note, multiple runs are absolutely recommended with Prey, since this game seems to have triggered nervous behavior in a lot of players, causing many of them to avoid Typhon neuromods like the plague.
Given one of Prey's inspirations is Bioshock, it's interesting to note this is not too disimilar from Bioshock's lopsided results with its choice of rescue/harvest, a vast majority of players only felt comfortable with rescuing. This even though neither game punishes the player that much for making the wrong choice.
 

kangaxx

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"But iiiiiii didn't eveeeeen noooooootiiiice....." is a little strange given this game's main quests always autoplay messages, and you can't stop playback like in System Shock.
I mean, it does auto-play every single time you run through the game, and you do play multiple runs of this immersive sim game... right? We couldn't possibly be dealing with *shudder* storygamers here?

I don't understand your post. Isn't it more likely that those of us who tuned out/ignored the annoying Daniel Sho transcribes are the opposite of story gamers?
 

LarryTyphoid

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I frankly find it surprising that this even seems "controversial" at all...
Knew about most of this, but the Wyman and tranny parts are new to me. Gotta hand it to Arkane, they put as much woke bullshit in their games as other devs, but they hide it well enough so some idiots won't notice; then, those idiots will run the Arkane Defense Force and accuse you of being a deranged neo-nazi "culture warrior" just for being more observant than them. Not to mention it's the same idiots who complain about the same level of wokeness in other games, like Bloodlines 2.

...game's main quests always autoplay messages, and you can't stop playback like in System Shock.
For real? Man, this game really is shit. A basic fucking feature like that is missing while it was present over 20 years ago. Prey is Bioshock 4.
 

Spukrian

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Sho was Chief Archivist, Foy Lead Sanitation Engineer. Doesn't strike me as a power imbalance. Foy was under the impression however that using their TranScribes to record their D&D game was against company policy, and Sho got her to agree to a date before telling her it was fine, so I guess that's a little coercive, if you're a sociopath.
"Lead Sanitation Engineer" to me just sounds like "the janitor that tells other janitors to go do stuff", but whatever... FYI I'm definitely not a sociopath.
 

MuscleSpark

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Of course you're free to believe that people working on the game genuinely thought it fits Prey and devoting time, space and effort to it is better than spending it on adding something, I don't know, creepy or interesting.
The entire point of Prey is empathy, having characters with normal lives, goals, relationships, etc. is how the devs (and by extension Alex) try to get you to care about them and not just murderhobo everyone for materials. If the characters aren't relatable in at least some way then you can't test for mirror neurons/empathy in the first place.
Besides the setting is very different to an SS2 or Dead Space where shit has hit the fan for a while and you're digging up the leftovers, in Prey the containment breach has literally just happened and plenty of people are still alive, so having tons of creepy shit (esp. since Typhon are not body horror like The Many or Necromorphs) makes a lot less sense.

they consciously made the protagonist gender neutral and mixed race
I'm pretty sure that was entirely so they could make a Yu/You double meaning and the rest is just marketing speak.
 
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Zboj Lamignat

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Yeah, the entire point of prey is emphatizing with office romance, not being a copy SS2. And I'm glad they came up with that ending to justify it, it's the best thing about the game by far.
 

LarryTyphoid

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Besides the setting is very different to an SS2 or Dead Space where shit has hit the fan for a while and you're digging up the leftovers, in Prey the containment breach has literally just happened and plenty of people are still alive, so having tons of creepy shit (esp. since Typhon are not body horror like The Many or Necromorphs) makes a lot less sense.
If that's the case then why are you still picking up audiologs instead of talking to people? The entire point of System Shock's audiologs is that the Hacker is piecing together the story of the station through the deaths of other characters. It's thematically fitting. Prey just has audiologs because every other fucking game has audiologs. If the disaster just happened then shouldn't you be talking to survivors instead of listening to voice recordings that have little justifiable reason to exist?

System Shock's storytelling took inspiration from Spoon River Anthology. Prey took inspiration from other games which took inspiration from BioShock which took inspiration from System Shock 2. You're lapping up 30 year old backwash. It's the mechanism of SS1's storytelling without the thematic context. It's vile and creatively bankrupt. It's the definition of decline.
 

Spukrian

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The entire point of Prey is empathy, having characters with normal lives, goals, relationships, etc. is how the devs (and by extension Alex) try to get you to care about them and not just murderhobo everyone for materials. If the characters aren't relatable in at least some way then you can't test for mirror neurons/empathy in the first place.
Well, you could round up all dead bodies you find (killed by the Typhon) and throw a recycle grenade into it... and the game doesn't care. I guess desecrating the dead isn't a sign of lacking empathy. Of course I'm just being the devil's advocate here, the developers probably didn't think about about this possible scenario, if they had, the game would reacted to it... right?
 

MuscleSpark

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If that's the case then why are you still picking up audiologs instead of talking to people?
From a game design perspective? Because Looking Glass realized in 1994 that simulating canned/pre-scripted conversations with NPCs isn't immersive. Also, there are plenty of "people" that talk at you, and it's arguably the worst immersive-breaking part of the game. Audio logs serve a very good design purpose in informing, guiding and immersing the player, especially when they're a blank slate.
If you mean diegetically, then that's because it's how people message each other. It's not like people left audiologs in SS2 because they were prescient and knew shit was going to go down and they were all going to die (although some did), the vast majority did it because that's how things worked at TriOptimum and on board the space ship, and that's how things work at Transtar where the executives want everything recorded and logged.

Prey's inspiration is directly drawn from SS2 and arguably Ultima Underworld/Arx Fatalis, this much is clear if you look at how the game works mechanically. Bioshock is a completely bastardized linear shooter by comparison.

Well, you could round up all dead bodies you find (killed by the Typhon) and throw a recycle grenade into it... and the game doesn't care. I guess desecrating the dead isn't a sign of lacking empathy. Of course I'm just being the devil's advocate here, the developers probably didn't think about about this possible scenario, if they had, the game would reacted to it... right?
Depends, would Alex and the Operators care? Considering Alex is basically sociopath that believes(d?) in advancing science by any means necessary, including executing non-violent prisoners, I doubt he'd give two shits about what you did to dead bodies as long as it helped you get the job done. He's even totally okay with terminating you if you decide to escape, regardless of how empathetic you act until that point, because it doesn't serve his goal.
 

Spukrian

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Depends, would Alex and the Operators care? Considering Alex is basically sociopath that believes(d?) in advancing science by any means necessary, including executing non-violent prisoners, I doubt he'd give two shits about what you did to dead bodies as long as it helped you get the job done. He's even totally okay with terminating you if you decide to escape, regardless of how empathetic you act until that point, because it doesn't serve his goal.
I'd argue the operators would care (at least Sho and Mikhaila) but you do make a good point about Alex not caring.
 

LarryTyphoid

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From a game design perspective? Because Looking Glass realized in 1994 that simulating canned/pre-scripted conversations with NPCs isn't immersive.
I never understood this. Why is the dialogue in Ultima Underworld not """immersive'""? System Shock does audiologs just fine, but since then logs have become one of the most absurd and gamey tropes in video games. You could argue that SS1 is more "immersive" than Underworld because it all takes place on one screen, and all of the menus are diegetic, but that seems like a really narrow-minded and even childish way to view "immersion" as a concept.

Also, there are plenty of "people" that talk at you, and it's arguably the worst immersive-breaking part of the game.
Then why did they bother? If they're using audiologs for the sake of immersion then they wouldn't have all these scripted sequences and context sensitive animations.

Audio logs serve a very good design purpose in informing, guiding and immersing the player, especially when they're a blank slate.
Depends on what you mean by audio log. If you mean the logs you find laying around then the same purpose could be filled by talking to people with an actual dialogue system. Or, just don't have them at all. Half-Life didn't have audio logs and it had much better storytelling than Prey.

If by "guiding" the player you mean those little radio calls you get, then those belong in the fucking garbage in every game they appear in. All it does is strip the protagonist of their agency in the story. Morgan is apparently too much of a fucking mong to know to escape without some retard on the radio calling him and saying "you gotta escape br0!!".
Doom Eternal has a gay little robot tell you where to go and what to do all the time as if I couldn't figure it out on my own in a game that linear.
System Shock 2 gets away with it because your radio contact is actually a cool character, and you can still project some sort of agency upon the PC.
Half-Life, again, doesn't have this shit at all, and it works wonders for the image of the PC's agency and feeling of isolation. In HL Freeman just runs because it's obvious that's what you're going to do. He doesn't have some retarded scientist call him up on his damn codec and say "bro you gotta run!!".
 

MuscleSpark

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Why is the dialogue in Ultima Underworld not """immersive'""?
Because, like LGS themselves said, "Computer Role-Playing Game is a contradiction in terms. Sitting around the table at a gaming "run" is a social activity and an exercise in imagination. Players express their imaginations through their social interactions and their creative approach to the problems of an adventure. [...] The social interaction which can be offered by a computer is pretty hollow, and most games don't provide a whole lot to replace it. The tedious mazes of pre-scripted menu options that some games (including our own!) have tried to pass off as "conversations" certainly don't cut it."
System Shock does audiologs just fine, but since then logs have become one of the most absurd and gamey tropes in video games.
I agree. It was pretty bad in Bioshock where audio logs were big bulky things left lying around for no real reason but ESPECIALLY egregious in Infinite where the Voxophones were literal vinyl records and there was 0 reason for them to be lying around everywhere. In Prey you can at least excuse it with the fact that the technology exists, and that logging is a necessity in a professional setting.
You could argue that SS1 is more "immersive" than Underworld because it all takes place on one screen, and all of the menus are diegetic, but that seems like a really narrow-minded and even childish way to view "immersion" as a concept.
I would, in fact, make that argument. For other reasons too, but mostly because I value diegetic design very highly, one of the reasons I respect Dead Space. And if I were a designer on Prey making the menus diegetic would be the third thing on the list after completely scrapping the hacking minigame and making elevators more like SS2 instead of the weird automatic/scripted monstrosity they are. I'm honestly surprised the same people who came up with the diegetic Recycling/Crafting systems could also completely fuck up like that.

Then why did they bother?
I don't know, you'd have to ask them.
Depends on what you mean by audio log. If you mean the logs you find laying around then the same purpose could be filled by talking to people with an actual dialogue system. Or, just don't have them at all. Half-Life didn't have audio logs and it had much better storytelling than Prey.
HL didn't really have storytelling. It was a bunch of cobbled together linear set pieces and honestly singlehandedly the reason why FPS campaigns became so shitty.
A dialogue system would do nothing but break immersion, menuing itself aside, it either forces people to slow down their reading as they wait for NPCs to finish talking out loud or skip through the voice lines and completely break the illusion. Even hamfisted environmental storytelling via audio logs is still vastly superior to hamfisted infodumping a bunch of text at players via a text box. At least you can do other stuff while having it play in the background.

Morgan is apparently too much of a fucking mong to know to escape without some retard on the radio calling him and saying "you gotta escape br0!!".
"Morgan" isn't stupid, he just doesn't know what's going on, and in that situation escaping could arguably be a bad idea (and it is, because if you stay in your "apartment" the entire time you'll never come to any danger).
In HL Freeman just runs because it's obvious that's what you're going to do. He doesn't have some retarded scientist call him up on his damn codec and say "bro you gotta run!!".
Sure, and that works in the context of an arcade video game made for gratification where you go down a series of linear corridors, it doesn't work in the context of an immersive narrative about testing a Typhon for empathy and getting him to do what you want in a non-linear space station.
Also, I don't understand why you mention HL as an example of game design as though modern Valve hasn't realized that both the in-game character and the player need a narrative impetus for actually doing anything and that's why all their games now have a witty companion telling you what to do and constantly blabbering in your ear, whether it's Glados, Wheatley or Russell. Even HL2 starts off with Barney/Kleiner telling you what to do until you find Alyx; is Gordon "too much of a fucking mong" to know to escape the Combine?
Prey isn't linear, and your goals aren't clear. Alex wants you to sit still (until he doesn't), January wants you to destroy the station, December wants you to escape. Other people want you to help them. It's not about escaping at all. The audio and text logs give you context and information in order for you to make a better decision about whom you want to side with. Escape and leave everyone to fend for themselves? Destroy the station and kill everyone aboard to save Earth? Do you blow up the escaping pod on its way to Earth? It's contextualizing the trolley problem and making it clear that empathy and morality aren't simple binary choices where the variables involved are merely "persons" and "switch" or "fat man".

P.S. sorry about the wall of text, I get very excited by video game design.
 

LarryTyphoid

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The social interaction which can be offered by a computer is pretty hollow, and most games don't provide a whole lot to replace it. The tedious mazes of pre-scripted menu options that some games (including our own!) have tried to pass off as "conversations" certainly don't cut it."
These conversations don't provide any kind of social interaction for the player, of course, but they do serve to give the protagonist some agency and personality. The Avatar in Ultima Underworld, the Chosen One in Fallout 2, I think they're memorable characters because of what they can say to all the different people around their worlds. In these games, the NPCs give the protagonist information in the same way radio conversation does in a game like Bioshock, but without the feeling that the PC is the minion of whoever's doing so (I know Bioshock did this intentionally but making your story shit on purpose isn't a good excuse).

This also serves to make the player character distinct from the player, which could be unimmersive, but personally I just don't value that sort of thing highly. If the PC is an active agent in his story, and I'm put in his shoes, I also feel like I have some conviction over my actions, even if it's an illusion. When the PC is led around the nose for the sake of immersion, I don't really care, because I don't want to be immersed in the role of some hapless jackass who just does what others tell him.

I would, in fact, make that argument. For other reasons too, but mostly because I value diegetic design very highly, one of the reasons I respect Dead Space
Maybe this is just a personal thing, but I can easily be immersed in games with very abstract UIs or even gameplay. I think the most immersed I've ever been in a game is Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead, a top-down ASCII roguelike. Dead Space's diegetic UI is cool and all, but I just see it as a gimmick. When I see it, I go, "hey, that's a cool touch the developers put in", meaning that my eyes and my thoughts are drawn to this design element, while in a game like Thief, the UI simply blends into the game and I don't even think about it. That's not to say that a diegetic UI is bad, it's fine, but it's also not what I'd call a particularly immersive element of a game.

HL didn't really have storytelling. It was a bunch of cobbled together linear set pieces and honestly singlehandedly the reason why FPS campaigns became so shitty.
Half-Life does have parts where NPCs talk at you, as I criticized earlier, but those parts are overshadowed by the way the game non-verbally calls the player to action. You never have someone talking in your ear, and for most of the game you're on your own. I haven't played it in awhile, but the best example I can think of off the top of my head is the beginning bit with the military. At the beginning, you've gotta get to the surface (something made clear to the player in a natural way with the few NPCs you meet) and the scientists are talking about rescue, but of course, the military is killing everyone, as the player can see scientists gunned down by the marines. Wordlessly, you're drawn into conflict with the HECU grunts. You keep fighting more and more of them until you get to the surface, and they're all over the fucking place, escape is impossible. The level design leads the player into a bunker, and you've gotta go back underground to recoup.

The pacing is excellent, and Half-Life's approach to storytelling is the primary reason it was such a success. It successfully creates the illusion that the player is an active, lone agent in the game's setting. I think this is why Gordon Freeman became somewhat of an "iconic" character in the public consciousness despite being a literal blank slate - because the game's pacing and gameplay invokes strong emotions in the player, and the player projects those emotions onto Freeman. People talking shit about HL1 today are just salty about other games copying it badly, and if you're gonna take that approach, you might as well shit on Ultima Underworld for being a pioneer of the real-time action RPG, a genre that is the quintessential bringer of decline.

Amusingly, one of the worst examples of Half-Life copycat decline, Doom 3, also badly ripped off System Shock's storytelling - retarded audio logs everywhere that can't be rewound or paused, or simply read with text like SS1 and 2 logs, plus there's a retarded marine man telling the player where to go everywhere and stripping the game of any sense of isolation and personal agency. Doom 3 was Bioshock before Bioshock.

Even HL2 starts off with Barney/Kleiner telling you what to do until you find Alyx; is Gordon "too much of a fucking mong" to know to escape the Combine?
Yes, Half-Life 2's NPCs never shutting the fuck up and generally inferior storytelling is the main reason that game isn't that good. In the Episodes especially, Alyx being with you all the fucking time completely strips those games of the feeling of isolation that HL1 was so good at. Portal 1 gets away with it in the same way SS2 gets away with it: your radio contact is hostile to the protagonist, so the protagonist doesn't lose their agency. Plus, Glados and Shodan are actually somewhat fun to listen to, unlike their peers in Prey and Bioshock.
 

Bad Sector

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
For other reasons too, but mostly because I value diegetic design very highly, one of the reasons I respect Dead Space.

"Diegetic" design is usually a gimmick - even in Dead Space the whole thing breaks down if you think a bit about it: even if the excuse that the bar is in your back for others to see would be accepted, it still doesn't explain how the suit can know that, e.g. you have a broken bone and associates some sort of percentage to your overall health. It kinda assumes that the world itself is running with game logic already (kinda how some manga or light novels have stories in fantasy settings where people have levels, XP, unlockable skills, etc) as opposed to being an abstraction for things that are impractical to explain and simulate in detail (and don't get me wrong, such a world can be interesting to have a story in but Dead Space and other games that use these "diegetic" elements the writing and design is not going for anything like that).

There are very few working examples of "diegetic" UI done right and they all work when they both make sense and aren't trying to replace something that tries to bridge the gap between the game's supposed world and the reality of interfacing with that world though the limited approximation that is a 2D monitor with some input device (ie. anything sort of a "full dive" virtual reality system). One such case is how you interact with objects in Frictional Games' games with your mouse which adds a bit of feeling like you're actually interacting with them but without taking anything away in the process - and the games still have abstractions for stuff that would be too cumbersome or impossible to do (e.g. you have an inventory screen instead of... i don't know, looking down your pants and using the mouse to fiddle with your pockets or whatever to avoid showing a GUI).

but they do serve to give the protagonist some agency and personality. The Avatar in Ultima Underworld, the Chosen One in Fallout 2, I think they're memorable characters because of what they can say to all the different people around their worlds

IMO this really depends on if the PC is supposed to be an existing character on their own you are guiding (like, e.g. Shepard on Mass Effect or Geralt in Witcher) or a character you have created (e.g. the main character in Morrowind or New Vegas). If the former then having precanned dialog choices in a way that gives off some sort of "character" makes more sense, but for the latter i personally prefer either not having dialogs at all (like System Shock and Prey do) and instead only rely on my actions to specify my character *or* having a more abstracted conversation system like the keyword-based conversations in earlier Ultima games or Morrowind.

Of course it is a preference but personally i often find my idea of my character clashing with what the available options are in conversation dialog choices (and sometimes how these choices are interpreted by the developers, when they do not map 1:1 to what the character would say). So since we can't have natural conversations with NPCs (and the associated body language, when that would make sense), i'd opt for the abstracted approach that works best with what our interfaces and computers can actually express and work with that wouldn't clash with my understanding of the character (after all for a computer if you select some precanned dialog choice or some keyword is exactly the same thing).

Amusingly, one of the worst examples of Half-Life copycat decline, Doom 3, also badly ripped off System Shock's storytelling - retarded audio logs everywhere that can't be rewound or paused

Most of the audio dialogs in Doom 3 is for optional fluff and the real meat is in the emails stored in PDAs - there is way more text-based content in Doom 3 than there is dialogs and all important codes are in emails. You can play the entirety of the game without needing to listen to a single audio log. In the original game (ie. not BFG) you can also skip all cutscenes if you want without losing anything (BFG makes cutscenes unskippable for some reason though the RBDoom3-BFG source port adds back the ability to skip them). I have finished the game several times while listening to podcasts and aside from a few storage lockers that had their codes in audio logs, i never had any issue skipping any cutscenes or not listening to any audiolog.

(also as a sidenote, since you brought Doom 3 up, Doom 3 also has a good example of a "diegetic" element done right: all in-world UI screens are interacted directly just by pointing the camera at the UI elements without needing to enter some special UI mode or anything since you are already using a pointing device to move the camera around and it is done very smoothly and naturally without taking anything away from the rest of the game - it doesn't work as well with a controller though - in BFG - but even with a controller it is good enough to not feel as if a dedicated UI mode would be needed)
 

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